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evenifigoalone

evenifigoalone

Well-Known Member
Reynolds said:
You made an unsubstantiated claim. I responded with an unsubstantiated claim. The first burden substantiate rests with you.
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So you're not even going to attempt to back up your claim. K then. I think it's irrevelvant and a red herring anyway.

At any rate, here's an article about what kind of government the US is.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-states-of-america-a-republic-or-a-democracy/
What WP says is we are a Constitutional Republic.

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Squire Robertsson

Squire Robertsson

Administrator
Administrator
Nope, it means he and I were taught that this country was founded as a republic in our salad days. We were taught Ben Franklin was asked as he came out of a meeting "Dr. Franklin, what kind of government did you give us?" He replied, "A republic, if you can keep it."
questdriven said:
I guess that means you're talking out your butt then

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evenifigoalone

evenifigoalone

Well-Known Member
Squire Robertsson said:
Nope, it means he and I were taught that this country was founded as a republic in our salad days. We were taught Ben Franklin was asked as he came out of a meeting "Dr. Franklin, what kind of government did you give us?" He replied, "A republic, if you can keep it."
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So was I. But that's not what was claimed--we are not a direct democracy in which every single decision is left to be voted on by the population. We have a constitution and amendments that governs the principles with which our laws are based on, which means that something can be declared unconstitutional. Most of our laws are voted on by representatives.
Most of the laws we directly vote on are at the local government level.

The claim that was made was that our government was intended to be a direct democracy, or that at the very least that the government we have now is not the one that was originally intended. THAT needs a citation.

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evenifigoalone

evenifigoalone

Well-Known Member
A bit of my background:
-raised in an independent fundamental baptist home and church
-homeschooled for most of my education, the curriculum we used was A Beka, which is conservative

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Reynolds

Reynolds

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
questdriven said:
So you're not even going to attempt to back up your claim. K then. I think it's irrevelvant and a red herring anyway.

At any rate, here's an article about what kind of government the US is.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-states-of-america-a-republic-or-a-democracy/
What WP says is we are a Constitutional Republic.

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I can back it up. I made a counter claim to an unsubstantiated claim. Until the claim is substantiated, there is no burden to prove the counter. I choose to be just as juvenile as you and I just so happen to have the rules of debate on my side.
 
Reynolds

Reynolds

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
questdriven said:
A bit of my background:
-raised in an independent fundamental baptist home and church
-homeschooled for most of my education, the curriculum we used was A Beka, which is conservative

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So now you are in rebellion?
 
evenifigoalone

evenifigoalone

Well-Known Member
Reynolds said:
I can back it up. I made a counter claim to an unsubstantiated claim. Until the claim is substantiated, there is no burden to prove the counter. I choose to be just as juvenile as you and I just so happen to have the rules of debate on my side.
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I already gave a source to my "claim", right in the post you quoted. Curious that that needs a source, though--thought it was common knowledge

If you just plan on digging in your heels and never backing yourself up, that's fine. I don't really care one way or the other--like I said, it's a red herring.

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evenifigoalone

evenifigoalone

Well-Known Member
Reynolds said:
So now you are in rebellion?
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Simply began thinking for myself. That started around age 15. At age 19 I officially took on a libertarian stance. I'm now 26. I don't think I ever went through a rebellious phase.
I did leave my childhood church at age 19, even though my family was against it, and began attending the church I attend now--which is southern baptist. But that wasn't a rebellion thing either--I purposely did all I could to leave behind as few hard feelings as I could.

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Reynolds

Reynolds

Well-Known Member
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questdriven said:
I already gave a source to my "claim", right in the post you quoted. Curious that that needs a source, though--thought it was common knowledge

If you just plan on digging in your heels and never backing yourself up, that's fine. I don't really care one way or the other--like I said, it's a red herring.

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You gave a link to an editorial opinion so I will respond in kind.
The U.S. is a unique government that is neither a Democracy nor a Republic. It is A Constitutional Republic. It still is a Constitutional Republic in a sense, but it behaves like a Democracy. In its early days, the ruling class ruled. White male land owners elected state legislators that sent house members and senators to Washington. Now with the end of slavery, womens suffrage, voting rights, elimination of land owner requirements to vote; now every adult who has not been disqualified for a crime can vote. What we now have is an indirect democracy that is tempered by the Constitution.
 
evenifigoalone

evenifigoalone

Well-Known Member
Reynolds said:
You gave a link to an editorial opinion so I will respond in kind.
The U.S. is a unique government that is neither a Democracy nor a Republic. It is A Constitutional Republic. It still is a Constitutional Republic in a sense, but it behaves like a Democracy. In its early days, the ruling class ruled. White male land owners elected state legislators that sent house members and senators to Washington. Now with the end of slavery, womens suffrage, voting rights, elimination of land owner requirements to vote; now every adult who has not been disqualified for a crime can vote. What we now have is an indirect democracy that is tempered by the Constitution.
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That matches up with what I learned in history class, yes. It also doesn't contradict the article I shared.
So I'm not seeing where your original claim that we were intended to be a direct democracy fits in.

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Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
questdriven said:
A non-believer's task is to repent and receive Jesus. Forcing a Christian lifestyle on them through law isn't going to accomplish that--and it won't stop them from sinning either. Just like with guns: more laws will not stop them

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God gave His moral standards for the good of all!
 
evenifigoalone

evenifigoalone

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
God gave His moral standards for the good of all!
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Right, but the world isn't in step with that right now. All will be set right when Jesus comes, and rules directly. Until then our job is to make disciples. It's not a process we can force on others

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Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
questdriven said:
Right, but the world isn't in step with that right now. All will be set right when Jesus comes, and rules directly. Until then our job is to make disciples. It's not a process we can force on others

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A nation is blessed when it enacts laws that meet Gods moral demands!
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
questdriven said:
Laws are based on mortality, but there is stuff most everyone can agree on, that they want to be reasonable safe from direct and immediate harm, and there is stuff that is only based on religion. Or would you rather we have laws imposed on us by Jewish or Muslim that outlaws pork because they believe eating pork is immoral and everyone needs to follow that view whether they are part of that religion or not.

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The moral standards of God should be enacted as Laws to uphold, as they were given for the good of society by God!
 
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