Most Evil Person in American History

[OldRegular]

Weren't they bought up by Starbucks?

I would rather get a good cup of Hazelnut coffee from 7-11 then waste my dollars on the overrated Starbucks.

I have purchased two times from Starbucks, and both times, they ended up in the trash and I looked for the nearest 7-11 for a good tasting brew.

Starbucks must be a Yankee company that produces little good.

:thumbsup::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Van]

Notice the effort to derail the thread and discuss anything and everything except the topic of the thread.

Folks, slavery caused the civil war, with the north wanting to end it and the south wanting to preserve it. Therefore the southern leaders who took us into war rank among the most evil leaders in American history.

3 Million slaves were being beaten, chained, abused and murdered in the south. Slavery as practiced in the south was sinful, cruel, vicious and mean.

 

[OldRegular]

Notice the effort to derail the thread and discuss anything and everything except the topic of the thread.

Folks, slavery caused the civil war, with the north wanting to end it and the south wanting to preserve it. Therefore the southern leaders who took us into war rank among the most evil leaders in American history.

3 Million slaves were being beaten, chained, abused and murdered in the south. Slavery as practiced in the south was sinful, cruel, vicious and mean.

Van

Essentially every piece of trash talk you have posted has been refuted several times. As I recall it was you who derailed the thread with your false accusations. Hopefully the moderator will close this thread NOW!

 

[Van]

Yet another off topic post, another disparagement, devoid of content.

1) Nothing has been refuted, because slavery was the cause of the civil war.

2) The topic is who are the most evil leaders in American history and I posted that the southern leaders who took us into war to preserve slavery rank among the most evil.

3) The south held over 3 million slaves captive, chaining, beating abusing and murdering them while claiming they were subhuman. These slave owners and their enablers were mean, vicious, cruel and sadistic folk.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Question:Most Evil Person in American History

Answer: Mika Brzezinski (Female); Chris Matthews (male)

At least they win for most annoying!:tongue3:

 

[Salty]

Question:Most Evil Person in American History

BB mods for not closing down this thread

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

BB mods for not closing down this thread

Thats a little harsh, dont ya think?:love2:

 

[agedman]

2) The topic is who are the most evil leaders in American history and I posted that the southern leaders who took us into war to preserve slavery rank among the most evil.

Van,

First, When are you going to present Scriptures that clearly state God condemning Slavery as evil?

You certainly haven't - and until you do, it is the Yankee that remains the aggressor.

The north had absolutely no cause for invading the south, and doing so are responsible for all deaths on both sides.

Second, these founding fathers agreed that a state could leave the union: Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, John Tyler - in fact it was Adams that advocated for New England to secede from the Union decades before the war.

Lincoln had NO authority to presume states could not leave the Union. There was NO constitutional authority for the invasion of the South, and not even the general public of the north supported him - the reason he had to have a draft!

Third, perhaps it would be wise to make a list of the leaders of the north and of the south.

Then see which had clear testimony as believers. Below is a short beginning point.

The drunk Grant didn't.

The storytelling Lincoln didn't.

The cowardly McClellan didn't.

The cruel Sherman didn't.

The Southern leadership had men of the highest character and outstanding qualities.

Jefferson Davis was one of the most brilliant men of his time. He not only was highly regarded by both north and south, proven courage in battle, but extremely high integrity and moral excellence. Davis read regularly from the Scriptures and was fluent in Greek. He was a devoted believer, and spent a great amount of time in personal devotional, and encouraged others in living Godly. (see: Jefferson Davis)

Robert E. Lee - NNE has gone through West Point with higher marks and not being marked down on some character issue other than Robert E. Lee. His Christian life and testimony are just as sterling. A dedicated believer who is marked as a man of faith. Historians have not found a reason not to proclaim this man a Christian of the most dedicated life in service both to God and country.

Thomas (Stonewall) Jackson in modern times would be considered autistic. Until he died, he was constantly being a witness of the majesty and glory of God. Not a single historian has pointed to the lack of character nor the inconsistency of Jackson's faithfulness to Christ and service.

Perhaps there is a need to make a list of leaders from the north that you can hold up as examples of believers who stood upon principle, showed on the field of battle their courage, and resolved in their hearts to live a life of holiness and purity to God.

To call believers as "the most evil leaders in American history" is wrong.

In fact, I am not sure (given the clear testimony of not only life lived but devotion to Christ of the top leaders in the south that I gave) that such statements are not an affront to the very throne of God.

God does not proclaim His own child as evil.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

BB mods for not closing down this thread

Still don't understand why you guys can't just walk away from it.

 

[agedman]

Still don't understand why you guys can't just walk away from it.

I keep hoping that Van will look at a bit of the documentation I keep offering him, and actually see why the South was not evil.

The South was not Scripturally evil for having slaves - but were Scripturally evil in the harsh treatment of slaves.

The South was not evil in leadership - but (unlike the North) were believers who not only held themselves accountable for conduct and purity, but presented a witness that encouraged others.

And, I was hoping that someone could actually show by Scriptures that slavery was/is not evil.

The Scriptures spend time expressing how folks are to be treated. It extends not just to employee and employer, to slave and master, to private and general, rather, no matter the "station" one finds themselves or the authority one has over another; the treatment is what is Scriptural or not.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

After some 430 posts it is obvious neither side is going to be persuaded. Instead of folks complaining that the moderators are not paternalistic enough, why not just stop talking about it and stop trying to have the last word?

Is anyone big enough to take the high road and just walk away?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Take your global citizenship & s#%*e-it Superman

OK....got it.....its SUPERMAN.

He renounced his U.S. citizenship before the United Nations in Action Comics No. 900.

Superman's commentary to the press, “I’m tired of having my actions construed as instruments of U.S. policy … ‘truth, justice and the American way’ - it’s not enough anymore.”

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/29/take-your-global-citizenship-and-shove-it-superman/#ixzz2rL8vGsXN

Then its Chris Matthews! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Van]

Van,

First, When are you going to present Scriptures that clearly state God condemning Slavery as evil?

God's command states we are to do unto others as we would want others to do unto us. No one in there right mind would climb into that 18" by 48" space and desire to stay put in their own pee and poo.

The north had absolutely no cause for invading the south, and doing so are responsible for all deaths on both sides.

The south fired on Fort Sumter.

Second, these founding fathers agreed that a state could leave the union: Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, John Tyler - in fact it was Adams that advocated for New England to secede from the Union decades before the war.

The south seceded to preserve slavery.

Lincoln had NO authority to presume states could not leave the Union. There was NO constitutional authority for the invasion of the South, and not even the general public of the north supported him - the reason he had to have a draft!

The states seceded to preserve slavery.

Yes, Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, and Stonewall Jackson all are among the most evil leaders in American history.

Many believers make shipwreck of their faith by building on the foundation of Christ with straw and hay and the innocent blood sacrificed on the alter of slavery.

A movie for all those who think slavery did not cause the civil war is "Amazing Grace." It is about ending the slave trade within the British empire through legislation. But the south chose armed conflict to preserve the cruel, mean, sinful and heinous crime against humanity that is slavery.

 

[Lewis]

A movie for all those who think slavery did not cause the civil war is "Amazing Grace." It is about ending the slave trade within the British empire through legislation. But the south chose armed conflict to preserve the cruel, mean, sinful and heinous crime against humanity that is slavery.

The slave trade with England ended in 1807, long before the Civil War began.

Near the end of the war, the Confederacy began enlisting and arming black troops. General Lee asked the Confederate government for help. "We must decide whether slavery shall be extinguished by our enemies and the slaves be used against us, or use them ourselves." Lee asked that the slaves be freed as a condition of fighting. He and other Confederate commanders, such as Pat Cleburn, desired independence more than they did the continuation of slavery.

 

[OldRegular]

Still don't understand why you guys can't just walk away from it.

Because Baptists are just contrary folks.

 

[poncho]

Word . . . :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Van]

The slave trade with England ended in 1807, long before the Civil War began.

Near the end of the war, the Confederacy began enlisting and arming black troops. General Lee asked the Confederate government for help. "We must decide whether slavery shall be extinguished by our enemies and the slaves be used against us, or use them ourselves." Lee asked that the slaves be freed as a condition of fighting. He and other Confederate commanders, such as Pat Cleburn, desired independence more than they did the continuation of slavery.

Hi Lewis, thanks for contributing actual information. The issue whether slavery was the cause of the civil war. In contrast, the British did not have a civil war over the slave trade, but recognized how toxic slavery is to anyone associated with it. But on the contrary, the South chose to secede, fire on Fort Sumter, and take whatever action to preserve slavery, making the southern leaders among the most evil in American history.

When the south seceded, it was to preserve slavery, as said in their secession statements.

 

[OldRegular]

Yes, Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, and Stonewall Jackson all are among the most evil leaders in American history.

The character of Van is demonstrated in the above statement.

*******************************************************

The character of Robert E. Lee is shown in the following letter:

Robert E. Lee's Opinion Regarding Slavery

This letter was written by Lee in response to a speech given by then President Pierce.

Robert E. Lee letter dated December 27, 1856:

I was much pleased the with President's message. His views of the systematic and progressive efforts of certain people at the North to interfere with and change the domestic institutions of the South are truthfully and faithfully expressed. The consequences of their plans and purposes are also clearly set forth. These people must be aware that their object is both unlawful and foreign to them and to their duty, and that this institution, for which they are irresponsible and non-accountable, can only be changed by them through the agency of a civil and servile war. There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy. This influence, though slow, is sure. The doctrines and miracles of our Saviour have required nearly two thousand years to convert but a small portion of the human race, and even among Christian nations what gross errors still exist! While we see the course of the final abolition of human slavery is still onward, and give it the aid of our prayers, let us leave the progress as well as the results in the hands of Him who, chooses to work by slow influences, and with whom a thousand years are but as a single day. Although the abolitionist must know this, must know that he has neither the right not the power of operating, except by moral means; that to benefit the slave he must not excite angry feelings in the master; that, although he may not approve the mode by which Providence accomplishes its purpose, the results will be the same; and that the reason he gives for interference in matters he has no concern with, holds good for every kind of interference with our neighbor, -still, I fear he will persevere in his evil course. . . . Is it not strange that the descendants of those Pilgrim Fathers who crossed the Atlantic to preserve their own freedom have always proved the most intolerant of the spiritual liberty of others?

http://www.civilwarhome.com/leepierce.htm

I took the liberty of bolding certain statements.

********************************************************

The character of Stonewall Jackson is shown in the following:

Stonewall Jackson, Champion of Black Literacy

by R.G. Williams, Jr.

Mention the legendary Confederate General Stonewall Jackson to most people and the image that immediately comes to mind is one of a fearless, hard-fighting Southerner known for his eccentricities, who some say fought for slavery. But Thomas Jonathan Jackson was a much more complicated man.

Indeed, a careful study of his life would lead one to believe that General Jackson might even be described as a civil-rights leader. Yes, that’s right, a civil-rights leader. In the nineteenth century, prior to the War of Federal Aggression, Virginia law prohibited whites from teaching blacks to read and write. Though Stonewall Jackson was known as an upstanding and law-abiding citizen in Lexington, he routinely broke this law every Sunday.

Though the law was not strictly enforced, Jackson quietly practiced civil disobedience by having an organized Sunday school class every Sunday afternoon, teaching black children to read, and teaching them the way of salvation. There are still churches active today that were founded by blacks reached with the Gospel through Jackson's efforts. Jackson taught the Sunday school class for blacks while he served as a deacon in Lexington’s Presbyterian Church. It was in the autumn of 1855 that Jackson, with the permission of his pastor, Dr. William S. White, began the class in a building near the main sanctuary. Every Sabbath afternoon shortly before 3:00 pm, the church bell would toll letting everyone know it was time to worship the Creator of all men. Jackson quickly gained the admiration and respect of blacks in the surrounding area as his zeal was apparent, and he took this solemn responsibility seriously. Attendance often numbered more than one hundred and Dr.White later wrote that Jackson "threw himself into this work with all of his characteristic energy and wisdom."

Jackson not only demanded much of himself in reaching slaves and free blacks, he demanded much of his students. His classes began promptly at three, and once he started, the classroom door was locked and latecomers were not allowed entrance. Bibles and books were awarded to those who were faithful and showed satisfactory progress. He also expected his students to give to the Lord’s work.

"On one occasion Gen. Thomas J. Jackson was appointed one of the collectors of the Bible Society. When he returned his list it was discovered that, at the end, copied by the clerk of session, was a considerable number of names written in pencil, to each of which a very small amount was attached. Moreover, the session, recognizing very few of the names, asked who these were. Jackson’s characteristic reply was ‘They are the militia; as the Bible Society is not a Presbyterian but a Christian cause, I deemed it best to go beyond the limits of our own church.’ They were the names chiefly of free Negroes."

This relationship between Jackson and the blacks of his community was not all that uncommon in the South, particularly pertaining to whites who were devout Christians.

"In Jackson’s mind, slaves were children of God placed in subordinate situations for reasons only the Creator could explain. Helping them was a missionary effort for Jackson. Their souls had to be saved. Although Jackson could not alter the social status of slaves, he could and did display Christian decency to those whose lot it was to be in bondage…he was emphatically the black man’s friend." – Dr. James I. Robertson

It was obvious that Jackson’s concern for his black brethren was real and something that occupied his mind even at the height of the war.
http://archive.lewrockwell.com/orig2/williams1.html



 

[Lewis]

Hi Lewis, thanks for contributing actual information. The issue whether slavery was the cause of the civil war. In contrast, the British did not have a civil war over the slave trade, but recognized how toxic slavery is to anyone associated with it. But on the contrary, the South chose to secede, fire on Fort Sumter, and take whatever action to preserve slavery, making the southern leaders among the most evil in American history.

When the south seceded, it was to preserve slavery, as said in their secession statements.

Hi Van, and yes facts are helpful aren't they.

Slavery obviously was an issue. However, in the slave states there were as many opinions as to what the war was about as there were in the non-slave states. And just as many opinions in the north. Even Lincoln stated that the war was only about preserving the union. The fact is that most southerners did not own slaves.

 

[Van]

The secession statements clearly indicate secession was over the issue of slavery. Many of the reasons given, i.e. economics, arise due to slavery, i.e. the slave economy, and so beneath much of the rhetoric stands slavery.

For example, the battle to "preserve the Union" meant the battle to "end slavery." A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Or the battle for states rights meant the battle over the state right to preserve slavery.