Most Evil Person in American History

[OldRegular]

The secession statements clearly indicate secession was over the issue of slavery. Many of the reasons given, i.e. economics, arise due to slavery, i.e. the slave economy, and so beneath much of the rhetoric stands slavery.

For example, the battle to "preserve the Union" meant the battle to "end slavery." A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Or the battle for states rights meant the battle over the state right to preserve slavery.

Van you are one piece of work. You have repeated your mantra endlessly while bearing false witness. You have needlessly demeaned men who's Christian Character, demonstrated by history, stands far and above anything I have seen demonstrated by you on this Forum.

 

[Van]

The Character of anyone fighting over the right to keep slaves is cruel, evil, sinful and heinous. Note that General Lee did not become a slave, yet thought it fine for blacks. And then he uses the "two wrongs make a right" argument, again unchristian and self serving thinking.

Then the good ol boys give Jackson a pass, saying he could not change the social status of slaves.

"Follow the drinking gourd, follow the drinking gourd...."

 

[Van]

Leaders of the KKK, pretended to be Christian, yet were guilty of lynchings and beatings, and acts of terror (bombings). Will Old Regular defend the KKK too? The leaders of the KKK rank among the most evil leaders in American history, but not as high as the southern leaders who took us into war to preserve slavery.

 

[OldRegular]

The Character of anyone fighting over the right to keep slaves is cruel, evil, sinful and heinous. Note that General Lee did not become a slave, yet thought it fine for blacks. And then he uses the "two wrongs make a right" argument, again unchristian and self serving thinking.

Then the good ol boys give Jackson a pass, saying he could not change the social status of slaves.

"Follow the drinking gourd, follow the drinking gourd...."

Van my boy!

Your problem is that your mind cannot think beyond your meager lifetime. Your simple mind cannot conceive that some 80 years after the Union was formed the states considered themselves to be sovereign entities in the Union. The states believed and I agree that they had the right to withdraw from that Union. I believe they still do! The Federal Government was simply an institution located in a swampy area abandoned by both Maryland and Virginia!

Using the asinine logic you use you could claim Jesus Christ was evil because He did not condemn slavery. You could condemn the Apostle Paul as being evil because he sent the slave Onesimus back to Philemon. I expect you could even condemn Almighty God as evil because He has allowed the institution of slavery and various other conditions within his creation. Using your flawed logic you could condemn Almighty God for saving cruel, evil, sinful and heinous man.

Your thinking is immature Van, grow up a little and get a life.

 

[OldRegular]

Leaders of the KKK, pretended to be Christian, yet were guilty of lynchings and beatings, and acts of terror (bombings). Will Old Regular defend the KKK too? The leaders of the KKK rank among the most evil leaders in American history, but not as high as the southern leaders who took us into war to preserve slavery.

Van my child! You are making an AdoubleS of yourself with such silly remarks.

 

[Lewis]

For example, the battle to "preserve the Union" meant the battle to "end slavery." A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Or the battle for states rights meant the battle over the state right to preserve slavery.

And that is one interpretation, namely yours! If the US wanted to end slavery within it's borders, it could have let the seceding states go their own way. Also, since most Confederate soldiers did not hold slaves, most were not fighting to keep them, but fighting for independence.

I had ancestors on both sides, and from all I've heard they were decent people. It is presumptuous to condemn an entire region as "evil".

 

[Van]

Hi Lewis, slavery was and is evil. Those that held or enabled slavery were treating others unlike how they would want to be treated. There is no excuse.

And as for "my opinion" recall that the Confederate VP said slavery was the rock that broke the union. The secession statements clearly indicate secession was over the issue of slavery.

All this "off center" argumentation is like claiming the issue is not abortion, but rather a women's right to choose. The south says it was not about slavery, but states rights.

 

[Van]

The most silly statement made is that the civil war was not caused by slavery.

 

[OldRegular]

Hi Lewis, slavery was and is evil.

So speaks the judge of all the earth?:thumbs:?????? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

************************************************

Laddie, as the old Scotsman used to say, I repeat my former admonishment of one who speaks so immaturely!

Van my boy!

Your problem is that your mind cannot think beyond your meager lifetime. Your simple mind cannot conceive that some 80 years after the Union was formed the states considered themselves to be sovereign entities in the Union. The states believed and I agree that they had the right to withdraw from that Union. I believe they still do! The Federal Government was simply an institution located in a swampy area abandoned by both Maryland and Virginia!

Using the asinine logic you use you could claim Jesus Christ was evil because He did not condemn slavery. You could condemn the Apostle Paul as being evil because he sent the slave Onesimus back to Philemon. I expect you could even condemn Almighty God as evil because He has allowed the institution of slavery and various other conditions within his creation. Using your flawed logic you could condemn Almighty God for saving cruel, evil, sinful and heinous man.

Your thinking is immature Van, grow up a little and get a life.

 

[agedman]

Hi Lewis, slavery was and is evil.

Proof, Van.

Show by clear evidence from Scriptures that slavery was condemned by God as evil.

You haven't.

All the rest of your statements are mere distractions built upon false humanistic scheme of thought which media hype was/is used to exalt as more "moral" what human desires as righteous, but was totally false.

Unless you can prove by Scriptures that God condemned slavery as evil, you have NO authority to state what God does not.

 

[Van]

Proof, Van.

Show by clear evidence from Scriptures that slavery was condemned by God as evil.

You haven't.

All the rest of your statements are mere distractions built upon false humanistic scheme of thought which media hype was/is used to exalt as more "moral" what human desires as righteous, but was totally false.

Unless you can prove by Scriptures that God condemned slavery as evil, you have NO authority to state what God does not.

I have provided the proof several times now, yet you deny it, demonstrating your character for all to see. If you do not want to be held captive, chained, beaten, sexually abused, and murdered, it violates the command to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

[Rippon]

WOW! We're headed for 500 posts and it has really drifted from a person to a system.

Mods,is this a test? Do you (plural) want to just see this display waving in the wind?

 

[OldRegular]

I have provided the proof several times now, yet you deny it, demonstrating your character for all to see. If you do not want to be held captive, chained, beaten, sexually abused, and murdered, it violates the command to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Laddie, as the old Scotsman would say, you are obsessing over something that happened before you were a gleam in your great great grand daddies eye! And beyond that you draw erroneous conclusions about all who disagree with you. Your holier than thou attitude is childish. You need to feed on a little meet of the WORD into which agedman has tried to lead you. But just for your edification I repeat my earlier admonishment!

Van my boy!

Your problem is that your mind cannot think beyond your meager lifetime. Your simple mind cannot conceive that some 80 years after the Union was formed the states considered themselves to be sovereign entities in the Union. The states believed and I agree that they had the right to withdraw from that Union. I believe they still do! The Federal Government was simply an institution located in a swampy area abandoned by both Maryland and Virginia!

Using the asinine logic you use you could claim Jesus Christ was evil because He did not condemn slavery. You could condemn the Apostle Paul as being evil because he sent the slave Onesimus back to Philemon. I expect you could even condemn Almighty God as evil because He has allowed the institution of slavery and various other conditions within his creation. Using your flawed logic you could condemn Almighty God for saving cruel, evil, sinful and heinous man.

Your thinking is immature Van, grow up a little and get a life.

 

[agedman]

I have provided the proof several times now, yet you deny it, demonstrating your character for all to see. If you do not want to be held captive, chained, beaten, sexually abused, and murdered, it violates the command to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

First, your Scripture statements have NOT been provided "several times" and what was provided is completely applicable to TREATMENT not the slavery itself.

Second, each of those items in your list is certainly Scripturally wrong and can be shown (except held captive and chained) so in Scriptures.

However, NOT ONE of those verses you gave can be used to show slavery being condemned by God as evil.

The treatment by some in the south was certainly ungodly. Just as the treatment of the immigrant families in the north was also ungodly.

Perhaps you do not realize that the living conditions of the typical southern slave were actually BETTER than those of the immigrant in NY city - especially as one progresses from the early 1800's through WWII.

The southern plantation life was no were near the slum lord living conditions of the north. Starvation, famine, sickness, unhealthy housing and food, non-existent medical treatment... the list is almost endless. NONE of that existed in the southern plantation slavery - it wasn't good business practice to let your resources deteriorate.

Folks, evil resides in the heart of all unredeemed and geography is no barrier; to not acknowledge that fact is very misinformed.

Was there evil in practice in some areas of the south? Certainly - just as in the north.

Could the north have instituted laws and policies that would have avoided the war? Certainly - but they weren't interested in those schemes, they wanted dominance. By instituting Godly laws, it would have damaged the North dominance and treatment of the Yankee far more than the South. The wealthy Yankee could avoid laying their life on the line by hiring someone else to serve in their place in the draft.

The Yankee made a mockery of their high moral claim, by not willing to serve in their own cause, when the fine southern gentlemen would lay down their life for what they new was right.

All claims that slavery was/is condemned by God as evil is misinformed.

There is absolutely NO SCRIPTURE that condemns slavery as evil.

Scriptures regulate the treatment of slaves.

Scriptures regulate the length of slavery.

They do no condemn slavery.

Third, you bring my character into question.

My character has and is displayed not just on the BB but to my neighbors and acquaintances as one who presents Scriptures to support a view and one who is willing to place a priority on the Scriptures and Scripture principles above humanistic emotional driven feelings.

For you to make any attempt to discredit my statements by pointing to my character is totally a failed effort.

Such has about as much authority as your claim about the leaders of the south being evil. Completely discredited by showing the three top leaders were believers of outstanding character - totally opposite of those of the ungodly leaders of the north.

 

[convicted1]

First, your Scripture statements have NOT been provided "several times" and what was provided is completely applicable to TREATMENT not the slavery itself.

Second, each of those items in your list is certainly Scripturally wrong and can be shown (except held captive and chained) so in Scriptures.

However, NOT ONE of those verses you gave can be used to show slavery being condemned by God as evil.

The treatment by some in the south was certainly ungodly. Just as the treatment of the immigrant families in the north was also ungodly.

Perhaps you do not realize that the living conditions of the typical southern slave were actually BETTER than those of the immigrant in NY city - especially as one progresses from the early 1800's through WWII.

The southern plantation life was no were near the slum lord living conditions of the north. Starvation, famine, sickness, unhealthy housing and food, non-existent medical treatment... the list is almost endless. NONE of that existed in the southern plantation slavery - it wasn't good business practice to let your resources deteriorate.

Folks, evil resides in the heart of all unredeemed and geography is no barrier; to not acknowledge that fact is very misinformed.

Was there evil in practice in some areas of the south? Certainly - just as in the north.

Could the north have instituted laws and policies that would have avoided the war? Certainly - but they weren't interested in those schemes, they wanted dominance. By instituting Godly laws, it would have damaged the North dominance and treatment of the Yankee far more than the South. The wealthy Yankee could avoid laying their life on the line by hiring someone else to serve in their place in the draft.

The Yankee made a mockery of their high moral claim, by not willing to serve in their own cause, when the fine southern gentlemen would lay down their life for what they new was right.

All claims that slavery was/is condemned by God as evil is misinformed.

There is absolutely NO SCRIPTURE that condemns slavery as evil.

Scriptures regulate the treatment of slaves.

Scriptures regulate the length of slavery.

They do no condemn slavery.

Third, you bring my character into question.

My character has and is displayed not just on the BB but to my neighbors and acquaintances as one who presents Scriptures to support a view and one who is willing to place a priority on the Scriptures and Scripture principles above humanistic emotional driven feelings.

For you to make any attempt to discredit my statements by pointing to my character is totally a failed effort.

Such has about as much authority as your claim about the leaders of the south being evil. Completely discredited by showing the three top leaders were believers of outstanding character - totally opposite of those of the ungodly leaders of the north.

Uncle Sam is the most wicked person. I give him ~25-30% of my income and I've never met him...and he' s my relative...my uncle?

 

[Van]

Good Golly Miss Molly.

Old Regular, your charges against me simply define your behavior.

Agedman, your inability to recognize slavery as practiced in the south was cruel, wicked, sinful, wrong and heinous is beyond belief.

1) You can deny how many times I have mentioned the golden rule, but they are there in the thread and prove you present falsehoods one after the other.

2) Treating others as subhumans is evil. Today, we treat those not yet born as subhumans and murder them by the millions. In my lifetime, i.e. WWII, millions of Jews were treated as subhuman and murdered.


3) The Slave trade "lost" up to 50% of those brought from Africa and since at least 10 million were brought, perhaps 3-5 million died before reaching their kindly American owners.

4) Only the irrational would claim folks were escaping from the bountiful life on plantations and risk life and limb to "follow the drinking gourd" if life as a free man in the north was worse. These sort of arguments are for fools.

5) Slavery, as practiced in the South, is condemned by God because it violates the golden rule. I for one would not want to be kidnapped, beaten, chained, abused, or murdered.

 

[OldRegular]

Good Golly Miss Molly.

Old Regular, your charges against me simply define your behavior.

In your misguided zeal you have in effect accused anyone who disagrees with your false premise regarding the War of Northern Aggression of supporting the practice of slavery. You have zero understanding of the views of people in the several states only 80 years after the formation of the Union. It has been pointed out numerous times that the vast majority of people in the South owned no slaves. These people fought against an invasion from the North, not to preserve slavery.

I will post again my indictment of your lack of knowledge.

Originally Posted by OldRegular
Van my boy!

Your problem is that your mind cannot think beyond your meager lifetime. Your simple mind cannot conceive that some 80 years after the Union was formed the states considered themselves to be sovereign entities in the Union. The states believed and I agree that they had the right to withdraw from that Union. I believe they still do! The Federal Government was simply an institution located in a swampy area abandoned by both Maryland and Virginia!

Using the asinine logic you use you could claim Jesus Christ was evil because He did not condemn slavery. You could condemn the Apostle Paul as being evil because he sent the slave Onesimus back to Philemon. I expect you could even condemn Almighty God as evil because He has allowed the institution of slavery and various other conditions within his creation. Using your flawed logic you could condemn Almighty God for saving cruel, evil, sinful and heinous man.

Your thinking is immature Van, grow up a little and get a life.

You have not responded to the above remarks for the simple reason they are true!

In your remarks to "aged man" you say:

These sort of arguments are for fools.

Scripture has some appropriate words for you Van!.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[OldRegular]

Uncle Sam is the most wicked person. I give him ~25-30% of my income and I've never met him...and he' s my relative...my uncle?

You are getting off easy. Just wait awhile!

Actually it was your Uncle under the control of Honest? Abe who invaded the South.

 

[Van]

I see Old Regular continues to address my supposed horrid behavior, rather than the topic.

The civil war was caused by slavery, the rock that broke the Union, according to the Confederate Vice President.

The argument that the slaves were better off on the plantations, than living free in the North is an argument for fools. There are plenty of verses opposing foolish behavior.

 

[agedman]

Good Golly Miss Molly.

Agedman, your inability to recognize slavery as practiced in the south was cruel, wicked, sinful, wrong and heinous is beyond belief.

Van, I never stated that I did not recognize "slavery as practiced in the south was cruel, wicked, sinful, wrong and heinous" - blanket condemnation is wrong. Not EVERY practice of slavery in the south was "cruel, wicked, sinful, wrong and heinous."

I also said was that the conditions of the south were actually better and provided more humane treatment then the north provided for the immigrants.

It is historically accurate to state the living conditions of the inner city were hellish in comparison to the southern slave living. The lack of housing and proper sanitation, no healthcare, starvation, forced prostitution, black lists, lack of nutrition, violence, murders, rapes, pollution, ... the list goes on and on.

The North continues to point to others sin, to distract from their own unrighteousness and taking accountability for their own deceitfulness.

Had the North (that had the control of government) produced laws regulating such matters, they would have gone broke trying to make amends concerning their own sinfulness.

Rather, the typical Yankee deceitfulness and greed has always been a subject that has long been covered up and avoided.

Evil hearted are not bound by geography.

1) You can deny how many times I have mentioned the golden rule, but they are there in the thread and prove you present falsehoods one after the other.

The "golden rule" does not state God condemns slavery as evil.

The "golden rule" is all about treating others humanely.

You confuse and blend the evil treatment of slaves as God condemning the ownership of slaves.

Yankees have such a grand history of following closely the "golden rule" in treating others. - NOT!

2) Treating others as subhumans is evil. Today, we treat those not yet born as subhumans and murder them by the millions. In my lifetime, i.e. WWII, millions of Jews were treated as subhuman and murdered.

Evil hearted will always treat others with evil actions.

3) The Slave trade "lost" up to 50% of those brought from Africa and since at least 10 million were brought, perhaps 3-5 million died before reaching their kindly American owners.

Since the beginnings of the illegal drug trade, millions have died. Does that make all pharmacies and drug companies, evil?

You mix and blend the ways of the slave markets with whether or not God condemns slavery - they are incompatible.

The Scriptures do not condemn owning a slave.

The Scriptures teach about the treatment and conditions of owning a slave.

They are two separate issues.

4) Only the irrational would claim folks were escaping from the bountiful life on plantations and risk life and limb to "follow the drinking gourd" if life as a free man in the north was worse. These sort of arguments are for fools.

See how you are denigrating and demeaning the character of folks.

What right do you have of claiming something evil that God does not?

God appointed Joseph to slavery - was God evil?

Paul condoned slavery - was Paul evil?

5) Slavery, as practiced in the South, is condemned by God because it violates the golden rule. I for one would not want to be kidnapped, beaten, chained, abused, or murdered.

Until you recognize that God does not condemn slavery, but does condemn evil treatment of any living creature, your argument will never stand as Scriptural.