New Birth before and Unto Faith !

[savedbymercy]

The Inward Man !



Rom 7:22

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

It is the inward man that receives the Testimony of the Gospel, which is also God's Spiritual Law. Now there are some scriptures that allude to the gospel being God's law.

I believe the Gospel is meant by law here Ps 19:7-8

7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.

The Law as the Ten Commandments were not for the purpose of converting the soul, that is Gospel Work, the Power of God unto Salvation to everyone that is believing.

I believe the Gospel is meant by Law here Isa 2:3

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

The Gospel of God is Spiritual, even the Law is Spiritual Rom 7:14

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The New Covenant Ministry is a ministration of the Spirit 2 Cor 3:4-8

4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

When speaking of the ministration of the Gospel, its called spiritual things as Per Rom 15:27

It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.


1 Cor 2:13

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1 Cor 9:11

If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

The spiritual things means the Gospel

These things can only be received and embraced by those who are spiritual.

A spiritually dead man cannot receive Savingly and spiritually, the spiritual gospel, but it is received by the inward man, which is the New Creation that can and does serve the Law of God !

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Biblicist: Faith cannot be "called into action" because either it is or it is not! There is no middle ground between faith and unbelief.

HP: There is indeed a faith with no action according to Scripture. James calls it 'dead' faith.

James I understand, but your comments above make no sense to me whatsoever. What do you mean, "it is or it is not? " What there is not is any middle ground between 'faith with works' and 'faith without works,' for again, "faith without works is DEAD being alone."

 

[The Biblicist]

HP: There is indeed a faith with no action according to Scripture. James calls it 'dead' faith.

James I understand, but your comments above make no sense to me whatsoever. What do you mean, "it is or it is not? " What there is not is any middle ground between 'faith with works' and 'faith without works,' for again, "faith without works is DEAD being alone."

However, "dead" faith is not true justifying faith is it? Hence, there is no middle ground between true justifying faith and unbelief. You are either a believer or a non-believer - period.

 

[savedbymercy]

However, "dead" faith is not true justifying faith is it? Hence, there is no middle ground between true justifying faith and unbelief. You are either a believer or a non-believer - period.

The New Creation cannot be in Unbelief, they Just cannot hear and believe the Gospel until it is sent to them. This is Illusrated by Christ with the good soil [ a New Heart] it receives the Gospel when it comes to them and understand it and bears fruit, faith Matt 13:23

But he that received seed in the good ground is he that hears the word, and understands it; who also bears fruit, and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Which was first, the good ground or the seed in the good ground ?

Anyone with common sense knows the ground must first be made good in order to cast seed into it for it to take root and produce the crop !

Take a lesson out of agriculture !

The good ground was not a unbeliever before it heard the gospel !

 

[The Biblicist]

The New Creation cannot be in Unbelief, they Just cannot hear and believe the Gospel until it is sent to them. This is Illusrated by Christ with the good soil [ a New Heart] it receives the Gospel when it comes to them and understand it and bears fruit, faith Matt 13:23

But he that received seed in the good ground is he that hears the word, and understands it; who also bears fruit, and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Which was first, the good ground or the seed in the good ground ?

Anyone with common sense knows the ground must first be made good in order to cast seed into it for it to take root and produce the crop !

Take a lesson out of agriculture !

The good ground was not a unbeliever before it heard the gospel !

First, you cannot dissect the new creation from the person as though they are two different entities. The elect may have heard the gospel a hundred times prior to regeneration and therefore is in UNBELIEF. The new creation cannot separated from the person as a WHOLE as though the gospel needs to be preached AGAIN to take the new creation from non-belief to belief - that is absurd and unbiblical.

Second, you don't build doctrine upon parables and spiritualizations because they always break down. Doctrine is built upon precepts and explicit scriptures dealing with that particular subject.

What made the ground "good" was the fact that it was plowed, weeded and rocks removed WHEN the seed was cast not AFTER or BEFORE!

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

First, you cannot dissect the new creation from the person as though they are two different entities.

They are, the Elect have a being out of the corruptible seed, the flesh, Jesus says, that which is flesh is flesh and one must have a entirely new Birth from another source. Jn 3:3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

A New Man must be born, not the flesh being born over again, but an entirely different man must be born again, yet the same man, but from another source.

Now that born again man is born out of the Second Adam, that Inncorruptible Seed, the Word or Logos of God 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible[seed], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


The Elect after the New Birth of the New Man, the Elect becomes Two Men, He is one born out of corruptible seed [The Flesh] and He is One Born out of Incorruptible Seed, which is Spirit !

This is what the bible Teaches !

 

[Yeshua1]

the bib



They are, the Elect have a being out of the corruptible seed, the flesh, Jesus says, that which is flesh is flesh and one must have a entirely new Birth from another source. Jn 3:3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

A New Man must be born, not the flesh being born over again, but an entirely different man must be born again, yet the same man, but from another source.

Now that born again man is born out of the Second Adam, that Inncorruptible Seed, the Word or Logos of God 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible[seed], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


The Elect after the New Birth of the New Man, the Elect becomes Two Men, He is one born out of corruptible seed [The Flesh] and He is One Born out of Incorruptible Seed, which is Spirit !

This is what the bible Teaches !

Your Bible MUST be same one Mormons have!

the REAL Bible states that we ALL are sinners, just that nature at birth, and when we place faith in christ, receive the new nature, as the Holy spirit indwells and seals us at that point of time!
NOT before!

 

[savedbymercy]

Your Bible MUST be same one Mormons have!

the REAL Bible states that we ALL are sinners, just that nature at birth, and when we place faith in christ, receive the new nature, as the Holy spirit indwells and seals us at that point of time!
NOT before!

Insults will not help you against your rejection of the Truth !

 

[The Biblicist]

Insults will not help you against your rejection of the Truth !

Look who is talking! That is your MO when you cannot deal with Biblical evidence against your position! Hypocrit!

We are no more TWO different entities than Jesus was TWO different entities. Both his divine and human nature consisted in ONE PERSON and both our old and new man consist in ONE PERSON.

Where in the scriptuers does God ever command the gospel to be preached to only the regenerated new man so he can be believe???? Nowhere!

The Bible commands the gospel to be preached to SINNERS! Is the regenerated man, new man a SINNER? If so, then the new man is SEPARATED from God because sin separates the sinner from God.

 

[savedbymercy]

Look who is talking! That is your MO when you cannot deal with Biblical evidence against your position! Hypocrit!

We are no more TWO different entities than Jesus was TWO different entities. Both his divine and human nature consisted in ONE PERSON and both our old and new man consist in ONE PERSON.

Where in the scriptuers does God ever command the gospel to be preached to only the regenerated new man so he can be believe???? Nowhere!

The Bible commands the gospel to be preached to SINNERS! Is the regenerated man, new man a SINNER? If so, then the new man is SEPARATED from God because sin separates the sinner from God.

They are, the Elect have a being out of the corruptible seed, the flesh, Jesus says, that which is flesh is flesh and one must have a entirely new Birth from another source. Jn 3:3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

A New Man must be born, not the flesh being born over again, but an entirely different man must be born again, yet the same man, but from another source.

Now that born again man is born out of the Second Adam, that Inncorruptible Seed, the Word or Logos of God 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible[seed], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


The Elect after the New Birth of the New Man, the Elect becomes Two Men, He is one born out of corruptible seed [The Flesh] and He is One Born out of Incorruptible Seed, which is Spirit !

This is what the bible Teaches !

 

[The Biblicist]

This is what the bible Teaches !

No that is how you PERVERT the scriptures to teach such nonsense. You are ONE person not two persons. You have TWO natures within ONE person just as Christ was not TWO persons but had TWO natures within ONE person.

Look at Romans 7:14-25 and you will see that Paul claims all aspects of his nature to be himself "in me" "My flesh" "I" "my mind" "my flesh" it is ONE PERSON claiming two opposing natures WITHIN him.

The New man does not need to be converted to Christ. The new heart/man comes as a beleiver in the gospel as the gospel is made the command of God in regeneration of his elect (1 Thes. 1:4-5) and is the "word of truth" by which we are regenerated by the will of God (James 1:18) and born of the "incorruptive seed" or "word of God" which Peter identifies "which is the gospel preached unto you." - 1 Pet. 1:25.

 

[savedbymercy]

No that is how you PERVERT the scriptures to teach such nonsense. You are ONE person not two persons. You have TWO natures within ONE person just as Christ was not TWO persons but had TWO natures within ONE person.

Look at Romans 7:14-25 and you will see that Paul claims all aspects of his nature to be himself "in me" "My flesh" "I" "my mind" "my flesh" it is ONE PERSON claiming two opposing natures WITHIN him.

The New man does not need to be converted to Christ. The new heart/man comes as a beleiver in the gospel as the gospel is made the command of God in regeneration of his elect (1 Thes. 1:4-5) and is the "word of truth" by which we are regenerated by the will of God (James 1:18) and born of the "incorruptive seed" or "word of God" which Peter identifies "which is the gospel preached unto you." - 1 Pet. 1:25.

The Elect being a sinner by Nature does not stop them from being a New Creation at the same Time. When Paul spoke these words 1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Paul even as a New Creation in Christ stated He was a sinner. " of whom I am chief is in the present tense in the greek text" Thats because, Paul knew what he was also according to that birth he had out of the flesh. That person or man is still there !

 

[The Biblicist]

at the same Time.

and IN THE SAME PERSON! Not two different PERSONS but ONE PERSON with TWO different NATURES WITHIN THAT ONE PERSON.

 

[savedbymercy]

and IN THE SAME PERSON! Not two different PERSONS but ONE PERSON with TWO different NATURES WITHIN THAT ONE PERSON.

Paul as a New Creature acknowledged this 1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Paul was only a sinner still in that person who he is being born of the Flesh. As a New Creature born out of the incorruptibe seed, born of God, Paul nor any other believer cannot sin !

1 Jn 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

But this only applies to that man born of God 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

You do understand here that " The word of God" here is Jesus Christ who is also God Jn 1:1 ?

 

[The Biblicist]

But this only applies to that man born of God 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

You do understand here that " The word of God" here is Jesus Christ who is also God Jn 1:1 ?

Try reading 1 Peter. 1:25 for Peter's own intepretation - 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Regeneration and the preaching of the gospel occur simeltaneous as it is the preaching of the gospel that becomes the effectual call, creative word, word of Command, thus power of God when it comes NOT IN WORD ONLY but IN POWER - 1 Thes. 1:4-5.

 

[savedbymercy]

Try reading 1 Peter. 1:25 for Peter's own intepretation - 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Regeneration and the preaching of the gospel occur simeltaneous as it is the preaching of the gospel that becomes the effectual call, creative word, word of Command, thus power of God when it comes NOT IN WORD ONLY but IN POWER - 1 Thes. 1:4-5.

The Gospel was preached to who ? To those born out of incorruptible seed ! 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The Gospel was preached to those who had been born again 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This Hope was revealed to them in the Gospel Col 1:5

For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

 

[The Biblicist]

The Gospel was preached to who ? To those born out of incorruptible seed ! 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The Gospel was preached to those who had been born again 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This Hope was revealed to them in the Gospel Col 1:5

For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

The gospel preached comes prior to Hearing and hearing comes before believing as the logical order.

Try to hear something never spoken!

Try to believe something never heard!

They were born again of the incorruptive word which was preached to them THROUGH the Gospel and thus the gospel did not come in WORD ONLY but IN POWER which produced hearing and believing.

 

[savedbymercy]

The gospel preached comes prior to Hearing and hearing comes before believing as the logical order.

Try to hear something never spoken!

Try to believe something never heard!

They were born again of the incorruptive word which was preached to them THROUGH the Gospel and thus the gospel did not come in WORD ONLY but IN POWER which produced hearing and believing.

I dont know what you are talking about, but God sends the Gospel of salvation to all whom Christ makes alive by new Birth.

I have showed you once before in another thread, that the word of salvation is sent to them who fear God Acts 13:26

Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

Now those who are fearing God are those who are New Creatures, for the Natural man of the flesh does not fear God Rom 3:18

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Sorry pal, then no word of salvation is going to be sent to those in that condition !

 

[Yeshua1]

You preach a Gnostoc Gospel, as Jesus Himself said that unless you believe in him, you will die in your sins, and John states that all who receive him have eternal life in his name, WHEN THEY BELIEVE!

 

[savedbymercy]

You preach a Gnostoc Gospel, as Jesus Himself said that unless you believe in him, you will die in your sins, and John states that all who receive him have eternal life in his name, WHEN THEY BELIEVE!

You preach a work salvation and deny that Jesus Christ's Death in and of itself saved those He died for !

The Lord Jesus Christ's Death Justified those He died for before God, His resurrection attests to that Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

You deny the witness of the resurrection !