Not attending all services

[HappyG]

JamesNeumann,

Are you familiar with how the rabbi's including Jesus taught in the NT?

They didn't just stand and recite words in monotone. They were some of the most creative communicators that ever lived. Certainly they didn't use technology as it wasn't available but they would have if it were.

You can do what you want. It certainly isn't wrong to stand and recite Scriptures. Just don't condemn others and call them "names" for working hard to communicate Jesus Christ.

One of the great things about communicating the unchanging message of Jesus Christ in the 21st Century is the opportunity to use so many the many "tools" of modern technology.

It doesn't really make sense to feel self-righteous because you stand and read the Scriptures while others not only read the Scriptures but they help people taste, feel, see and experience the Scriptures.

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
I think these man-made traditions of guilting folks for not going to mass every time your church has one as a false display of peity is something we should separate from.

This is a Baptist Only forum and there's no need to discuss mass.

 

[Pastor Larry]

If we were talking about Catholics guilting other Catholics to attend every mass, how would that change your view on this?

I would recommend that a Catholic never attend mass. This, however, is about services in the church. We should confine the discussion to that.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
I think these man-made traditions of guilting folks for not going to mass every time your church has one as a false display of peity is something we should separate from.

This is a Baptist Only forum and there's no need to discuss mass. </font>[/QUOTE]I was using the word mass as parallel in function to a service. Whether we call it a mass or a service, it is a time when a church has a formal time of worship.

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by HappyG:
JamesNeumann,

Are you familiar with how the rabbi's including Jesus taught in the NT?

They didn't just stand and recite words in monotone. They were some of the most creative communicators that ever lived. Certainly they didn't use technology as it wasn't available but they would have if it were.

You can do what you want. It certainly isn't wrong to stand and recite Scriptures. Just don't condemn others and call them "names" for working hard to communicate Jesus Christ.

One of the great things about communicating the unchanging message of Jesus Christ in the 21st Century is the opportunity to use so many the many "tools" of modern technology.

It doesn't really make sense to feel self-righteous because you stand and read the Scriptures while others not only read the Scriptures but they help people taste, feel, see and experience the Scriptures.

I'm not saying you can't be creative, or you can't use illustrations or powerpoint presentations or 3D IMAX footage. I'm saying that if it takes 25 hours to prepare a single one-hour sermon, your taking too long. I'm sorry if you think I'm being self righteous, I'm not a pastor and I don't have the privilege of feeding God's flock. But I think if I had to limit myself to one sermon a week, I would starve.

 

[HappyG]

Pastor_Bob,

Somewhere right now there is a service going on and you are missing an opportunity to be there. Why don't you have evangelistic meetings every night of the week every week of the year? More...more...more...more...more...more...more...more..of the same thing.

I just don't think that is a very good reason for people to be in Sunday night church.

Let me use this example.

Your people have a "Spiritual Bank Account" with $10 in it for each week. They don't have unlimited funds to spend as they only have so many hours that they can dedicate to "church" each week outside of their work, families and day to day lives.

You are saying the best way you can think of for them to spend their $7 of their $10 each week is by gathering together again on Sunday Nights after gathering in a similar fashion on Sunday Mornings and doing a similar type of sermon and a song with maybe a few more songs and little less structured sermon.

I'm saying I think I have a better and more effective way for them to spend their $10. You can disagree and that is fine. But what you shouldn't do is use Scripture that isn't talking about Sunday Night services as we are talking about them in 21st century America to "proof-text" your Sunday night service.

Just say that there is principle in the Bible that speaks to the importance having the Word in our lives and you feel the best way for your church to do it is by repeating Sunday AM on Sunday PM.

 

[HappyG]

Ok, James,

I understand you better and am glad to hear you aren't against creativity.

I do think it takes a pastor around 25 hours a week to preach a good sermon. My research is based on what the more successful communicators do.

The really exciting churches though have multiple members on the preaching staff and different venues and ministries. So if you really need to have 3 sermons a week. You will get 3 sermons with a total of 75 hours of preperation on each one of them.

Imagine that! You would probably think you are Heaven!

 

[Dr.Tim]

Ahhh Pink Dragon, why provokest thou me to anger with thy catholic-kissing post??? Knowest thou not that thou canst easily join the catholic church and forever quenchest thou hunger??

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Dr.Tim:
Ahhh Pink Dragon, why provokest thou me to anger with thy catholic-kissing post??? Knowest thou not that thou canst easily join the catholic church and forever quenchest thou hunger??

There are anger management classes for that sort of thing and 21st century american english classes for your other issue.

I had a pretty big cajun chicken sandwich for lunch so I'm not that hungry. Thanks for your concern.

Cheerio

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by HappyG:
Ok, James,

I understand you better and am glad to hear you aren't against creativity.

I do think it takes a pastor around 25 hours a week to preach a good sermon. My research is based on what the more successful communicators do.

The really exciting churches though have multiple members on the preaching staff and different venues and ministries. So if you really need to have 3 sermons a week. You will get 3 sermons with a total of 75 hours of preperation on each one of them.

Imagine that! You would probably think you are Heaven!

As long as it isn't all sizzle and no steak.

 

[Gold Dragon]

I apologize for my use of the word mass. There seems to be some confusion about the intent of my use of that word and I will try to clarify below.

I did not mean to suggest that Baptist services are masses.

I was trying to compare our attitudes towards those who don't attend every church service in their Baptist church with our attitude towards the Tradition of the RCC and their understanding of mass as a sacrament.

I picked the word mass to be intentionally offensive and looking back it was regretable to do so without more clarification of what I meant.

Sorry Dr.Tim if this provoke your anger.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Originally posted by HappyG:
Why don't you have evangelistic meetings every night of the week every week of the year? More...more...more...more...more...more...more...more..of the same thing.

So, were the Apostles in the early church wasting their time having more...more...more...of the same thing every day?
Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. (KJV)

Your people have a "Spiritual Bank Account" with $10 in it for each week. They don't have unlimited funds...

Your illustration has a faulty premise. We do have unlimited funds to draw from when it comes to spirituality.
Php 4:13,19, Mat 6:33

Just say that there is principle in the Bible that speaks to the importance having the Word in our lives and you feel the best way for your church to do it is by repeating Sunday AM on Sunday PM.

There is a principle in the Bible that speaks to the importance of gathering together with fellow believers and I believe the best way for my church to apply this principle is by meeting together for the purpose of fellowship and worship at least three times a week and any other special meetings I feel led to have.

Our Sunday PM service is not a repeat of Sunday AM. The AM service is very often attended by lost visitors, as such, the message is evangelistic. The PM service is mainly saved folk so the message is more geared to growing and maturing. Wednesday PM is our Mid-week prayer meeting where we spend 75% of the service in prayer.

 

[Gershom]

Pastor Bob posted:

Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. (KJV)

Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

 

[Jeffrey H]

My sitter has told me that I am not setting a very good example of obedience to my 6-year old daughter because I am not going to church on Sunday night and Wednesday night.

I have yet to find in the Bible a requirement to attend on a Sunday night or Wednesday night. There's is nothing wrong with it and it's all well and good, but not a requirement.

You will only set a poor example for your daughter if you don't pratice what you believe or believe what you practice. Read Psalm 90 and let the Lord establish the work of your hands as you serve your church. Don't let well-meaning brother/sisters direct your steps with man-made expectations that cannot be supported with Scripture.

 

[HappyG]

Pastor_Bob,

Your people don't have unlimited funds to spend on church specific activities.

There are certain requirements in life that are extremely spiritual such as rest=56 hours a week, work= 45 hourse a week, family life=15 hours a week, recreation= 8 hours a week etc.

Integrating Jesus into every area of life (Matt. 6:33) is a beautiful thing and allows a person to make all of the above activities spiritual. But that doesn't change the fact that each person has a certain amount of time and energy that they can spend each work on the type of "church" related activities that we have spoken about.

In fact, going to church is like going to practice and listening to the coach. The real game of life is played out everyday in the lives of your people. Getting our people to sit at church is not the goal of the Christian life. Getting our people to live out their faith every day is the goal.

By some preaching and philosophies of ministry that gets turned around.

 

[Pastor Larry]

There are certain requirements in life that are extremely spiritual such as rest=56 hours a week, work= 45 hourse a week, family life=15 hours a week, recreation= 8 hours a week etc.

You seem very willing to assert these as "requirements" right along with hours. Why? You object that the Bible never commands us to go to church Sunday night and Wednesday night, but assert that it is a requirement to spend 15 hours a week w/ family, 8 hours in recreation, 45 at work, etc. Why do you object to making 4 hours a week at church a requirement? That is half the time you are willing to spend recreating, 1/3 of the time you say we should spend with our families (as if you can't spend family time at church).

It seems you undermine your own argument.

I also think your "coach" analogy has basis in Scripture whatsoever. Church is not practice for the real thing; it is the real thing.

 

[menageriekeeper]

I know this wasn't directed a me, but I have to say, if all I have to do to complete God's will for my life is sit in church 4 hours a week, I'm working to hard!

Let me go back to attending every service(6 hrs in my case) and forget about the time I spend preparing for my Sunday School lesson, praying for those on my prayer list, helping out when folks help and witnessing to those I come in contact with. As a matter of fact let me cast off everything else I do because I think it makes me a better witness/representative of Christ, and just warm a bench for four hours a week!

Church is practice for the real thing. And we need that practice. But we should never put warming a church bench in front of doing the real work of the Lord by presenting our witness in out daily lives. Bench warming is not the "real thing".

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
I also think your "coach" analogy has basis in Scripture whatsoever. Church is not practice for the real thing; it is the real thing.

I would agree with what I think Pastor Larry is saying here. Worship is not practice, it is the real thing.

However, our worship of God Almighty that is the real thing starts before we sit in a pew and doesn't end when we drive out of the church parking lot.

Worship should continue in the time we spend caring for our family. In the quality of our work. In our choices of recreation. In our spending habits.

I would also agree with what I think menageriekeeper is saying that warming a seat in a church building is not worship.

 

[Paul33]

Pastor Bob,

"Consider the Sunday evening service that Thomas missed. I ask you, did he miss a blessing that night? Did he miss an opportunity to have his faith strengthened?"

"I do not think that the "building" is even a question in this thread. The fact is, when the "church" meets together, God promised to be there in the midst of them. Matthew 18:20"

-------------------------------------------

If your a dispensationalist, the church doesn't even exist yet and Matthew doesn't applay since it was written for the Jews!

 

[Paul33]

If going to church Sunday night proves our devotion to Christ, then we ought to go to church every day, like the Catholics are able to do.

Church isn't defined by when your services are. Church is the body of Christ fellowshipping and meeting together.

That can be done Pastor Larry's way, or it can be done Happy's way.

Personally, I would prefer my people hear my sermon on Sunday morning and put it in practice that afternoon and evening when they are with friends and family.

It seems that the Sunday sermon loses its impact when followed up by another sermon that same day. When are people going to live it out? Most can't retain two sermons in their minds at the same time. Sunday morning sermon, weekday prayer meeting.

For comparison purposes. Sunday evening service and Wed. night = 2 hours. Bible study during the week = 2 hours.

Which is more spiritual? Which accomplishes more? Which is the right way?

Each church's situation will determine which best meets the needs of the "church."