Now I Understand! Do You?

[The American Dream]

Israel is certainly not the top dog, but will be used by God as He sees fit. At the same time, a theory called the replacement theory is not Scriptural, that the church replaces Israel. They are both at work in God's plan. As far as amil goes, that is probably limited to the West Virginia border.

 

[OldRegular]

Israel is certainly not the top dog, but will be used by God as He sees fit. At the same time, a theory called the replacement theory is not Scriptural, that the church replaces Israel. They are both at work in God's plan. As far as amil goes, that is probably limited to the West Virginia border.

You really are dreaming. God used Israel for the purpose of bringing Jesus Christ into the world . After the Jews conspired with Rome to crucify Him their work in God's purpose to redeem His elect was complete!

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[HankD]

Before you declare what is ongoing orthodoxy, can you tell us what you mean by a spiritual resurrection? I'm not denying it, but I would only say that this is part and parcel to regeneration. Thus the New Covenant has been enacted and believers have entered an initial eschatological stage of resurrection, the "already" if you will. We have already been resurrected or given life spiritually. We we await the day of consummation where resurrection will be complete and our bodies will be resurrected. Are we in some agreement here?

Good question Greektim, And yes we agree (I believe) In my view spiritual resurrection goes beyond bodily resurrection in that the image and likeness of God is completely restored/repaired in reborn humanity. It begins here on earth and it is called sanctification.

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

"changed" is an interesting word in koine (which you probably already know) it is metamorhoo from whence we get metamorphosis.


HankD

 

[DHK]

You really are dreaming. God used Israel for the purpose of bringing Jesus Christ into the world . After the Jews conspired with Rome to crucify Him their work in God's purpose to redeem His elect was complete!

Here is the problem in some of these discussions.
The American Dream is right and his position can certainly be defended through Scriptures:

Israel is certainly not the top dog, but will be used by God as He sees fit. At the same time, a theory called the replacement theory is not Scriptural, that the church replaces Israel. They are both at work in God's plan. As far as amil goes, that is probably limited to the West Virginia border.

But even if he presented to you an entire treatise on it you would reject it. Your mind is made up. You are not teachable in this area. So there is no reason in even discussing the subject.

The same is true with John 5:28,29. Others have offered a different interpretation. It doesn't have to mean "one general resurrection." You say it does. Conversation is over. There is no room for debate. You won't even listen to another side.

The title of the thread is: Now I Understand! Do you?
The answer to the thread is:
NO you don't understand, and you won't listen to others and even try to understand.

 

[OldRegular]

Here is the problem in some of these discussions.
The American Dream is right and his position can certainly be defended through Scriptures:

Then defend it!

But even if he presented to you an entire treatise on it you would reject it. Your mind is made up. You are not teachable in this area. So there is no reason in even discussing the subject.

I take the Word of God seriously. I would never say it is meaningless as you have. The Word of God tells us:

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

I would no more embrace the doctrine of pre-trib-dispensationalism than I would some of the other false doctrines started in the 19th century.

The same is true with John 5:28,29. Others have offered a different interpretation. It doesn't have to mean "one general resurrection." You say it does. Conversation is over. There is no room for debate. You won't even listen to another side.

It does have to mean one general resurrection and judgment. That is historic Baptist doctrine and was until Scofield published his Reference Bible seducing those "weak in the faith".{ Romans 14:1}

The title of the thread is: Now I Understand! Do you?
The answer to the thread is:
NO you don't understand, and you won't listen to others and even try to understand.

I do understand DHK and I would never believe anyone who would post the following statement { post #88 the General Baptist Discussions; Divine Illumination/ Divine Enablement Thread} that smacks of Roman Catholicism:

Originally Posted by DHK post #88
The scripture remains meaningless until someone gives it meaning.

And I cannot bid you God speed!

 

[percho]

Then defend it!



I take the Word of God seriously. I would never say it is meaningless as you have. The Word of God tells us:

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

I would no more embrace the doctrine of pre-trib-dispensationalism than I would some of the other false doctrines started in the 19th century.

It does have to mean one general resurrection and judgment. That is historic Baptist doctrine and was until Scofield published his Reference Bible seducing those "weak in the faith".{ Romans 14:1}



I do understand DHK and I would never believe anyone who would post the following statement { post #88 the General Baptist Discussions; Divine Illumination/ Divine Enablement Thread} that smacks of Roman Catholicism:



And I cannot bid you God speed!

OR,

Relative to resurrection and these verses; For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Cor 15:21,22

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

What does that mean every man in his own order?

Does that seam to imply not all at once?

 

[OldRegular]

OR,

Relative to resurrection and these verses; For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Cor 15:21,22

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

What does that mean every man in his own order?

Does that seam to imply not all at once?

Consider a few more verses:

1 Corinthians 15:20-26
20. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
24. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Jesus Christ is the First and only resurrection to date. Scripture does not contradict itself. We read the following:

John 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The above passage teaches a general resurrection and judgment of all the dead. 1 Corinthians 15:23 implies that the Saints, those that belong to Jesus Christ, will be resurrected prior to the lost. But what is certain is that in some brief time period all will come out of the graves to face the Great White Throne Judgment!

Notice in particular 1 Corinthians 15:24 in conjunction with verse 23:

Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The end comes is said to come after the resurrection of the Saints. This is verified by the following Scripture where Paul talks more about the resurrection body of the Saint in the following Verses.

1 Corinthians 15:42-45
42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43. It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Paul further tells us about those still living at the Return of Jesus Christ. Remember that Paul is talking to "true believers" Saints!

1 Corinthians 15:50-55
50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

This passage simply tells us that when Jesus Christ returns there will be no more death and he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.


In all that Paul teaches in Chapter 15 he is talking to "true believers", the Church. It is not necessary that he speak about the resurrection of unbelievers. This is also true of the oft quoted passage from Thessalonians>

Finally recall Paul's testimony before Felix the Governor:

Acts 24:14, 15
14. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15. And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Paul, not speaking to believers teaches A resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. attributing that teaching to the law and the prophets!

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[percho]

In all that Paul teaches in Chapter 15 he is talking to "true believers", the Church. It is not necessary that he speak about the resurrection of unbelievers. This is also true of the oft quoted passage from Thessalonians>

Finally recall Paul's testimony before Felix the Governor:

Acts 24:14, 15
14. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15. And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Paul, not speaking to believers teaches A resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. attributing that teaching to the law and the prophets!

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Moses who died in Adam, exactly when and by what means would you say that he became one of the just, that will be resurrected? Consider:

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before (the) faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that (the) faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Gal 3:22-25

When and by what means was Moses made just?

Was Moses a true believer because he was obedient in doing what God called him to do or was he a believer because God called him? What about, Jeremiah was he a true believer of his obedience or because God knew he was going to call him even before he was in the womb of his mother.

When was Jeremiah made just?

Could anyone actually have been made just prior to the moment spoken of in Gal 3?

Your thoughts.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Just? Rom 5:19

I say all this to ask, Would you say that there is a chance that, say, Ahab could be made just?

 

[OldRegular]

Moses who died in Adam, exactly when and by what means would you say that he became one of the just, that will be resurrected?

What makes you think Moses died in Adam? Doesn't Scripture say Abraham was justified by faith. Is there any reason to think Moses was not also justified by faith.

 

[The American Dream]

What makes you think Moses died in Adam? Doesn't Scripture say Abraham was justified by faith. Is there any reason to think Moses was not also justified by faith.

I would say the verse that says Moses was the most humble man that ever lived is a good hint.

 

[OldRegular]

I would say the verse that says Moses was the most humble man that ever lived is a good hint.

I would say the following seals it!

Matthew 17:1-3
1. And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2. And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.


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[OldRegular]

Folks if you will look at some of the lies posted about me on the thread "The Two Witnesses" you will understand why there can be no thread on this BB entitled:

Pre-Trib-Dispensationalism and the Bible

What is the Scriptural Basis for:

1.The Rapture of the Church prior to a Great Seven Year Tribulation?

2. The doctrine that the Church, for which Jesus Christ died, is a "Parenthesis" or Intercalation in God's Program for Israel!

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Disagree with a pre-trib-dispensationalist and eventually they will get around to accusing you of throwing out Scripture.

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[DHK]

Folks if you will look at some of the lies posted about me on the thread "The Two Witnesses" you will understand why there can be no thread on this BB entitled:



************************************************************************************************

Disagree with a pre-trib-dispensationalist and eventually they will get around to accusing you of throwing out Scripture.

**************************************************************************************************

I just read through that read.
Do you mean remarks like this one:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2198111&postcount=100

 

[OldRegular]

I just read through that read.
Do you mean remarks like this one:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2198111&postcount=100

That is correct after he told the following lies about me!

No return for the Bride, the church you consistently have been saying that throughout this post. The problem is you have to throw out scriptures like 1st Thessalonians 4 which says we meet Him in the air. You have to throw out 1st Corinthians 15:52 to hold that view. You have to say scholars of old who believed in the church being caught up before the time of the Tribulation had it wrong. You even must say Jesus lied when He promised His church she would not go through that time,

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The Greek for the word temptation is "Peirasmos" a time of Trial, or proving. The Tribulation is the final step of Christ in the Redemption process. Not only did man need to be redeemed but Christ was also to redeem all of creation. To do that He must put it through trial or proving, tempatation if judgment. So that He completes the terms of the title deed redemption contained in the little book with seven seals.

This was not just a promise to the church at Philadelphia but to all believers who are saved during this the time of the Church. A time not seen by the Old Testament prophets, hidden to them, but revealed by Holy men of God in the writings of the Church, the New Testament.

We see the purpose of that time of temptation, of trial of proving or Tribulation in

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

These too must be redeemed. The whole creation growns and travails due to the curse and the prince that rules them. The prince who you say is bound is ruling the earth because the curse has not been lifted, the earth has yet to be redeemed. For Christ is the perfect redeemer. Every realm that came under the curse of Adam’s sin, must be redeemed! It must also be redeemed by the Last Adam. As the kinsman redeemer was not to just redeen the kinsman but t he property of the kinsman. All this must occur.

Revelation 4 must also be throne out for John, "saw four-and-twenty seats round about the throne, not empty, but filled with four-and-twenty elders, presbyters, representing, very probably, the whole church of God, both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament state; not the ministers of the church, but rather the representatives of the people. Their sitting denotes their honour, rest, and satisfaction; their sitting about the throne signifies their relation to God, their nearness to him, the sight and enjoyment they have of him. i1They are clothed in white raiment, the righteousness of the saints, both imputed and inherent; they had on their heads crowns of gold,i0 signifying the honour and authority given them of God, and the glory they have with him. All these may in a lower sense be applied to the gospel church on earth, in its worshipping assemblies; and, in the higher sense, to the church triumphant in heaven."

Never said you threw anything out of the bible, I just said if one holds the view of no snatching away then one must throw those teachings out of the Bible. You continue to say there is no snatching away yet scripture clearly says there is. You continue to say that Christ came in 70 A.D. and Bound satan, and set up his Kingdom, to teach that one must not believe what all scripture says.

 

[percho]

YLT

1 Cor 15:22
for even as in Adam all die,
so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,

1 Cor 15:23
and each in his proper order,
a first-fruit Christ, ----- (To date the only one, to die no more, incorruptible. )
afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,

(Is that all, who in Adam, have died? also in the Christ all shall be made alive,) (I don't think so)

1 Cor 15:24
then -- the end, --- (Cometh isn't there. The end of what? When? )
when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power -- (When it comes time to deliver the kingdom to the Father. ) (When will that be? )

1 Cor 15:25
for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet

1 Cor 15:26
the last enemy is done away -- death; (the death, I believe the article is there)
(Is this when the rest of the dead are made alive, who had died in Adam? ) (Why must he rule til then? )

(What will be done with the one who had the power of death, at this time, the devil? )

1 Cor 15:27,28 (Because)
for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, it is evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him, and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.

Now compare the scriptures above with these from Eph. 1:3-10

Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who did bless us in every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, (the firstfruits)according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love, having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, (afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,) to the praise of the glory of His grace, in which He did make us accepted in the beloved, in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the remission of the trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, in which He did abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the secret of His will, according to His good pleasure, that He purposed in Himself, (God the Father) in regard to the dispensation of the fulness of the times, to bring into one the whole in the Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth -- in him; (< himself, God the Father compare to 1 Cor 15:27,28)

Rev 20:7
And when the thousand years may be finished, the Adversary shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:10
and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.
Rev 20:14
and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire -- this is the second death;

 

[Darrell C]

What is the Scriptural Basis for:

1.The Rapture of the Church prior to a Great Seven Year Tribulation?

It is a conclusion which results from understanding that the Lord's Return establishes a physical Kingdom which would be impossible if the Church is raptured/glorified at the end of the Tribulation.

Paul is clear that when the Church is caught up it includes the entire Church. The Lord is clear that all unbelieving will be destroyed at His Return.

If the Rapture occurs at the end of the Tribulation, there remains only glorified Saints, which leaves no physical people to populate the Kingdom.

A denial of the Millennial Kingdom is the argument offered to deny a future Tribulation and Kingdom, but I have yet to see a reasonable presentation which reconciles the Prophecy of the Gospels and other Books of the New Testament with a fulfilled completion of that which is prophesied.

2. The doctrine that the Church, for which Jesus Christ died, is a "Parenthesis" or Intercalation in God's Program for Israel!

I do not recognize this as a valid question as it is stated as it suggests two different salvation efforts on the part of God.

The fact is that the Church Age is simply the stage of Progressive Fulfillment of God's Redemptive Plan.

When the Tribulation ends, just as the Lord taught, no-one that is not born again will enter into that Kingdom. It is clear that many teachings found in the Gospels which have as a focus the Kingdom to be established demonstrate the destruction of the unbelieving during and shortly after the Tribulation. Those who are saved during the Tribulation and the Kingdom will be saved like as we, being first born again and brought into union with God. There is no distinction between those of the Church in this Age and those in the Tribulation and Millennial Kingdom, all are born again believers.

The belief that the "Church" will be a separate group from those of Israel and the redeemed of all ages is not a doctrine I embrace, for it is clear that in the Eternal State there will be one people of God, the eternally redeemed:


John 10:16

King James Version (KJV)

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.



God bless.

 

[percho]

It is a conclusion which results from understanding that the Lord's Return establishes a physical Kingdom which would be impossible if the Church is raptured/glorified at the end of the Tribulation.

Paul is clear that when the Church is caught up it includes the entire Church. The Lord is clear that all unbelieving will be destroyed at His Return.

If the Rapture occurs at the end of the Tribulation, there remains only glorified Saints, which leaves no physical people to populate the Kingdom.

A denial of the Millennial Kingdom is the argument offered to deny a future Tribulation and Kingdom, but I have yet to see a reasonable presentation which reconciles the Prophecy of the Gospels and other Books of the New Testament with a fulfilled completion of that which is prophesied.





I do not recognize this as a valid question as it is stated as it suggests two different salvation efforts on the part of God.

The fact is that the Church Age is simply the stage of Progressive Fulfillment of God's Redemptive Plan.

When the Tribulation ends, just as the Lord taught, no-one that is not born again will enter into that Kingdom. It is clear that many teachings found in the Gospels which have as a focus the Kingdom to be established demonstrate the destruction of the unbelieving during and shortly after the Tribulation. Those who are saved during the Tribulation and the Kingdom will be saved like as we, being first born again and brought into union with God. There is no distinction between those of the Church in this Age and those in the Tribulation and Millennial Kingdom, all are born again believers.

The belief that the "Church" will be a separate group from those of Israel and the redeemed of all ages is not a doctrine I embrace, for it is clear that in the Eternal State there will be one people of God, the eternally redeemed:


John 10:16

King James Version (KJV)

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.



God bless.

The very reason for the following being when, "a man", not the spirit of a man, is truly born again in order to enter the kingdom of God.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1 Cor 15:50,51

But each in his own order.

When do you believe the son of David inherited the kingdom of God?

Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 2 Tim 2:8 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. Acts 20:25
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Col 1:18

 

[beameup]

You really are dreaming. God used Israel for the purpose of bringing Jesus Christ into the world . After the Jews conspired with Rome to crucify Him their work in God's purpose to redeem His elect was complete!

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:25-27

After the Body of Christ is removed from this earth and taken to heaven, God will once again deal with Israel ("Jacob") directly in order to usher in the Millennial Reign of Jesus the Messiah over the earth.
Pretty simple.

 

[OldRegular]

It is a conclusion which results from understanding that the Lord's Return establishes a physical Kingdom which would be impossible if the Church is raptured/glorified at the end of the Tribulation.

Paul is clear that when the Church is caught up it includes the entire Church. The Lord is clear that all unbelieving will be destroyed at His Return.

If the Rapture occurs at the end of the Tribulation, there remains only glorified Saints, which leaves no physical people to populate the Kingdom.

A denial of the Millennial Kingdom is the argument offered to deny a future Tribulation and Kingdom, but I have yet to see a reasonable presentation which reconciles the Prophecy of the Gospels and other Books of the New Testament with a fulfilled completion of that which is prophesied.

I asked for a Scriptural basis. You presented nothing but opinion!

I do not recognize this as a valid question as it is stated as it suggests two different salvation efforts on the part of God.

The fact is that the Church Age is simply the stage of Progressive Fulfillment of God's Redemptive Plan.

When the Tribulation ends, just as the Lord taught, no-one that is not born again will enter into that Kingdom. It is clear that many teachings found in the Gospels which have as a focus the Kingdom to be established demonstrate the destruction of the unbelieving during and shortly after the Tribulation. Those who are saved during the Tribulation and the Kingdom will be saved like as we, being first born again and brought into union with God. There is no distinction between those of the Church in this Age and those in the Tribulation and Millennial Kingdom, all are born again believers.

The belief that the "Church" will be a separate group from those of Israel and the redeemed of all ages is not a doctrine I embrace, for it is clear that in the Eternal State there will be one people of God, the eternally redeemed:


John 10:16

King James Version (KJV)

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.



God bless.

Nevertheless the concept of the pre-trib-rapture hangs on the doctrine that the Church, for which Jesus Christ died, is an interruption in God's program for Israel.

John F. Walvoord, the preeminent pre-tribulation-dispensational theologian and former president of the Dallas Theological Seminary confesses that the validity of the pre-tribulation ‘rapture’ depends on the definition of the Church [Major Bible Prophecies, page 282]. Before presenting Walvoord’s remarks concerning this question it is worthwhile to consider the definition of the Church as presented in The Baptist Faith and Message [Section VI] adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention in Atlanta, Georgia on June 14, 2000.

“The New Testament also speaks of the church as the Body of Christ which includes all the redeemed of all ages, believers from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.”

Walvoord writes, regarding the definition of the church, [Major Bible Prophecies, page 282]:

“If the question be asked: Will the church be raptured before end-time events? it becomes very important to define the church as an entity that is distinct from Israel or saints in general. In prophetic passages concerning the Tribulation, both Israelites and Gentiles are described, and some of them have faith in Christ and form a godly remnant. If they are part of the church, then the church is in the Tribulation, and the whole question as to whether the church goes through the Tribulation becomes moot. Many posttribulationists, in an attempt to establish their own point of view, beg the question at the very beginning by assuming that the church includes saints of all ages. The concept that the church is distinct from Israel is a part of dispensational truth that distinguishes the work of God in the Old Testament under the Mosaic Law, the work of God in the present age as he calls out both Jews and Gentiles to form the church as the body of Christ, and the millennial kingdom in which the saints of all ages participate in various ways but maintain their individual and corporate identity. Hence, the church will be raptured or resurrected, and will reign with Christ in the millennial kingdom, but the saved of Israel as well as the saved of the Gentiles who are not part of the church will also be part of the millennial kingdom. Distinguishing the church from saints of other periods that precede or follow the present age is essential to a correct answer on the pretribulational issue. It is not too much to say that the doctrine of the church, or ecclesiology, determines this aspect of eschatology.”

 

[OldRegular]

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Romans 11:25-27

After the Body of Christ is removed from this earth and taken to heaven, God will once again deal with Israel ("Jacob") directly in order to usher in the Millennial Reign of Jesus the Messiah over the earth.
Pretty simple.

The deliverer, Jesus Christ, came almost 2000 years ago!