NT six literal days

[BobRyan]

You continue to miss my point.

You and I and everyone else can still serve, fellowship, accept a brother or sister in Christ because they doubt that the creation account from Genesis 1 happened in a literal 24 hours. Not that they deny it happened at all....but that they question whether it was a literal 24 hours. You don't need to try and convince me, I agree with you that it was a literal 24 hours. Other believers who question it shouldn't be questioned spiritually because of it.

Put it another way -- "can the Gospel survive a corruption of God's Word in Gen 1 and 2 where HE defines HIS OWN role as Creator and mankind as supernaturally and divinely created sinless, perfect, innocent, harmless and at peace with God"??

Bible believing Christians say "no"
Atheist darwinists say "no"

So where is the incentive to compromise the Word of God??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

In the 7 DAY Creation week "account" God does not say that He "MADE but did not CREATE" all life in those 6 days .. RATHER God said


Quote:

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed[/b], and all their hosts.
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.[/b]


Thus you have attempted a "distinction without a difference"

Couple of questions for you. One why do you think God used two "different" words that you say mean the same thing in the same sentence. What purpose does it serve to say the same thing with two different words?

God emphasizes that HE did BOTH -- in those seven days -- in HIS OWN conclusion to the matter as we see the text above.

Are you asking what HIS meaning is in claiming that in those first 6 days He BOTH "Created AND MADE" the things HE described in Gen 1 and 2??

JJ -
Secondly I will ask you the same thing that I asked DHK (which is still yet to be responded to) and that is if in fact Genesis 1 is talking about creation the entire way through do you really think God messed up on His first step when the earth was formless, void and dark?

No.

Not any more than when we saw those Levy Shoemaker comets slam into Jupiter -- Hint we were not "waiting for God to finish making His imperfect world".

When a wall of water slams into the beach we do not say "oops God goofed again and made an imperfect thing -- maybe He is coming back to finish".

(BTW - I already gave this answer -- so I don't mind doing it again).

However NONE of this solves the problem your suggestion has - which is that the DAYS that God Himself mentioned are not to be believed.

You have provided NO exegesis that would point to ANY other resolution for the chapters - so WHERE is the "Not necessarily the days God is stating" evidence IN the text???

We keep getting "dead silence" on that question.

And then I wonder why He said in Isaiah that He didn't do it that way?

Hint: God DID NOT say in Isaiah "I DID NOT make the World in 6 days the way I said I did"!!

Hint: to EXEGETE Gen and 2 you actually have to go there.

Hint: EACH time God SUMMARIZES the seven day creation event - it is best to listen.

Exodus 20:8-11 comes to mind.

Okay I guess there are three questions. If God created in six days and then rested on the seventh day what is He creating now?

What difference does it make??

His initial statement REMAINS true - He created the world in 6 "Evening and mornings" -- literal days as we SEE in both Gen 1-2 AND in Exodus 20:8-11 SUMMARY of that event.

Impossible to ignore.

Impossible to obfuscate.

EVEN the Atheist Darwinists "get this".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Bob said
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRyan
You can not "deny the DETAILS in the ACCOUNT that God gives" and then claim to believe it "while rejecting it"!!

It just does not work that way,.

in Christ,

Bob

Dan said

My suggestion would be to sit back, carefully read the posts, and try again. I have never denied the details, then claiming to believe it.

My suggestion is that you step back and read the posts carefully - in them you will find that although many here claim to accept the 6 day creation account JUST as God stated it -- "some" are arguing that ANOTHER solution works (possibly equally as well). So my response is to dive deep INTO that "other solution" to observe that it either does or does not "hold water".

To do that - you have to look at the very heart of it!

You keep wanting to step back each time that alternative argument runs aground and say "yes but I don't believe it". Fine you don't believe that alternative argument - but we can still evaluate it sir.

I have, from the beginning of the literal 24 hour days that this thread began, said that I agree with a 24 hour view.

Wonderful -- but that changes nothing -- the point above remains.

Dan
. My point is that I believe there is room for interpretation on THE AMOUNT OF TIME GOD TOOK TO CREATE. Is there room for difference on anything you believe??

When God SAYS that Christ is the Son of God -- is there room to believe it or not?

When God SAYS HE created the world and all that is in it in six days -- is there really room to find some OTHER time for it other than what HE has stated?

If so - then "show your work" show in the details that it is at least plausible in the realm of objective exegesis.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

My point is that I believe there is room for interpretation on THE AMOUNT OF TIME GOD TOOK TO CREATE. Is there room for difference on anything you believe?? I think this is one of those areas, AGAIN, THAT AREA IS CONCERNING THE AMOUNT OF TIME...NOT WHETHER OR NOT GENESIS 1 IS TRUE, OR GOD CREATED...where we can have differences and remain Biblical Christians.

to be blunt, you've got issues if you can't allow room for disagreement. I agree with you on the interpretation of Genesis, but me and you are far apart with the way you act....

Once again it is being suggested that some OTHER time line may exist other than what we find in scripture. Presumably someone here really believes that an alternative is at a minimum POSSIBLE given the wording of the text of scripture - and is serious about that claim.

So assuming there is at least one person who thinks that the alternative CAN be taken seriously -- the question that has been asked here
(by me) and is going completely unnanswered -- remains. (And so I will now ask it again)

Let us suppose for an instant that these texts are NOT the way for God to say that HE ACTUALLY created all life on this world in six days...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRyan

"FOR IN SIX DAYS the LORD MADE the HEAVENs and the EARTH the SEA and all that is in them".

The SAME SIX days that we are to work in --

Ex 20
8 ""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "" Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 "" For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Gen 2
]Genesis 2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed[/b], and all their hosts.
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.[/b]

in that case the question to be answered by the objective thinking reader is "what WOULD have been the right way for God to say that He actually created the world in Six days"...

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

You continue to miss my point.

You and I and everyone else can still serve, fellowship, accept a brother or sister in Christ because they doubt that the creation account from Genesis 1 happened in a literal 24 hours. Not that they deny it happened at all....but that they question whether it was a literal 24 hours. You don't need to try and convince me, I agree with you that it was a literal 24 hours. Other believers who question it shouldn't be questioned spiritually because of it.

#1. I have never argued anything about "fellowship or disfellowship" on this topic.

#2. My focus has repeatedly been on the "depth" and real "lasting significance" of any alternative other than simply accepting the Six Day account that God gives in His Word as real - as trustworthy in its every detail etc. The fact that when we look at those alternative they don't hold water "is not my fault". I am simply pointing out the lack of substance in the alternative to a sound exegetically consistent rendering f the text.

Why should we compromise the text "as our starting position" saying - "I believe Jesus is the son of God but there are probably many other alternate interpretations to God saying "THIS is my beloved Son hear ye him".. I just happen to believe the one where He IS the Son of God"

It makes no sense to start out supposing the validity of an alternative interpretation if you can not at least show that it has about the same validity as simply accepting the text for what it says.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[J. Jump]

Bob you are really good at not answering questions or spinning them onto another subjuct. Are you a politician? :laugh:

Are you asking what HIS meaning is in claiming that in those first 6 days He BOTH "Created AND MADE" the things HE described in Gen 1 and 2??

No. What I'm asking is why did God use the word create and the word made in the same sentence if they mean the same thing. Why did He need to use two words to express the same thing?

No.

Then you have a seriously problem, because verse 2 begins with an imperfect blob of darkness. So if God didn't mess up then what is the earth doing in an imperfect state?

However NONE of this solves the problem your suggestion has - which is that the DAYS that God Himself mentioned are not to be believed.

I'm not trying to solve a problem. You are saying that the seven days are a more detailed account of creation in Genesis 1. That's not possible. The days are to be believed. What is not to be believed is your assertion on the text.

You have already shown that the belief that you hold has a problem in verse 2, because a perfect God is not capable of making something imperfect, but that's exactly what you have Him doing in verse 2 if these are days of creation as you and other suggest.

God DID NOT say in Isaiah "I DID NOT make the World in 6 days the way I said I did"!

Again you are dodging what was said and trying to spin your way out of a corner. I never said what you have quoted.

However is Isaiah God DID say that He didn't create the earth in the state it is found in verse 2. Now we can either believe what He said or we can ignore that verse. I choose to believe what He said.

What difference does it make??

It makes a HUGE difference. God said He is working again in the same fashion for six days (obviously not a literal 24-hours this time) and He will rest on the seventh day. So if this seven-day period is creation then what is He creating now?

He created the world in 6 "Evening and mornings"

Like I've told you before just because you keep repeating a statement doesn't mean it's true. You have given ZERO evidence that God has ever said He CREATED the heavens and earth in six days. God chose two different words that don't mean the same thing as much as you and DHK want them to. If they did mean the same thing why didn't God just choose one of the words to eliminate any possibility of confusion? God is not the Author of confusion, but of Perfection. He chose two different words becuase He was trying to communicate two different things.

Bottom line is Genesis 1 and into 2 is the first story of redemption. That is the work that God is currently in the process of doing. He's not creating anything. He's redeeming a fallen creation just as He did with an earth that had fallen into ruin.

He's working six days and He will rest on the seventh. Again obviously these six days are not six literal 24-hour days as God is not done with redemption as it is still going on. These six days are a type of 6,000 years. And He will rest on the seventh day or the seventh 1,000-year period which is the millenial reign of Christ. Amazing how Scripture just fits perfectly together when we let it.

 

[BobRyan]

Quote:
Are you asking what HIS meaning is in claiming that in those first 6 days He BOTH "Created AND MADE" the things HE described in Gen 1 and 2??

No. What I'm asking is why did God use the word create and the word made in the same sentence if they mean the same thing. Why did He need to use two words to express the same thing?

How about "because He did not want us to claim that in the six day creation week God MADE but did not CREATE life on earth. Rather He summarized the entire week claiming that He did BOTH".

(That's me always taking the easy way out)

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Quote:
No God can not be blamed for making bad stuff just because it is not fully formed in a single day.

Then you have a seriously problem, because verse 2 begins with an imperfect blob of darkness. So if God didn't mess up then what is the earth doing in an imperfect state?

You are the only one with the "IF God messed up" argument. I am not making the argument that Jupiter getting hit by Shoemaker-Levy comet is "God messing up" -- you are the one doing that and if we went along with your notion then we would have to conclude "God still has not gotten this right".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Quote:
Okay I guess there are three questions. If God created in six days and then rested on the seventh day what is He creating now?

What difference does it make??

His initial statement REMAINS true - He created the world in 6 "Evening and mornings" -- literal days as we SEE in both Gen 1-2 AND in Exodus 20:8-11 SUMMARY of that event.

Impossible to ignore.

It makes a HUGE difference. God said He is working again in the same fashion for six days (obviously not a literal 24-hours this time) and He will rest on the seventh day. So if this seven-day period is creation then what is He creating now?

Where does He say He is NOW making something "in six days"??

You probably need to prove that part first.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Quote:Bob said
However NONE of this solves the problem your suggestion has - which is that the DAYS that God Himself mentioned are not to be believed.

I'm not trying to solve a problem. You are saying that the seven days are a more detailed account of creation in Genesis 1. That's not possible. The days are to be believed. What is not to be believed is your assertion on the text.

You have already shown that the belief that you hold has a problem in verse 2, because a perfect God is not capable of making something imperfect, but that's exactly what you have Him doing in verse 2 if these are days of creation as you and other suggest.

You claim that a child that is not an adult is "God messing up" a seed that is not a mature plant with fruit is "God messing up" and that the world that starts with water on it is "God messing up"??

Why do you claim that an ordered sequence of progressive events is "God messing up" is there some TEXT of scripture that says that this is to be called "God messing up" or are you just making stuff up???

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

God said Quote:
He created the world in 6 "Evening and mornings"

But J jump said

Like I've told you before just because you keep repeating a statement doesn't mean it's true. You have given ZERO evidence that God has ever said He CREATED the heavens and earth in six days.

The EARTH and ALL that is in it -- the SUN and the MOON? I believe I DID say that and SHOW it as well.

Allow me to "show it again" (because as anyone reading this thread can tell I LOVE to show this over and over again)


"FOR IN SIX DAYS the LORD MADE the HEAVENs and the EARTH the SEA and all that is in them".

The SAME SIX days that we are to work in --

Ex 20
8 ""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "" Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 "" For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Gen 2
]Genesis 2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed[/b], and all their hosts.
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.[/b].

 

[BobRyan]

God chose two different words that don't mean the same thing as much as you and DHK want them to. If they did mean the same thing why didn't God just choose one of the words to eliminate any possibility of confusion

God used BOTH for that same 7 day week so that there would be no mincing nor parsing no wriggling out of admitting that God both CREATED AND MADE all things on earth in Creation WEEK of EXACTLY SIX "evenings and mornings".

Gen 2
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.[/b].

 

[BobRyan]

He's working six days and He will rest on the seventh. Again obviously these six days are not six literal 24-hour days as God is not done with redemption as it is still going on. These six days are a type of 6,000 years. And He will rest on the seventh day or the seventh 1,000-year period which is the millenial reign of Christ. Amazing how Scripture just fits perfectly together when we let it.

Nice story now where does God say "I am working for six days again and by that I mean 6,000 literal years"???

 

[J. Jump]

How about "because He did not want us to claim that in the six day creation week God MADE but did not CREATE life on earth. Rather He summarized the entire week claiming that He did BOTH".

Now you are contradicting yourself. I can't be BOTH, because the two words mean the same thing right. BOTH would indicate two separate things.

And yes I believe He used both of those words because He did BOTH of those actions. They don't mean the same thing. They are different things.

And you keep going back to the same tired argument of Exodus 20 which DID NOT say God "created," but rather God MADE. The ONLY evidence you have given for a six day creation doesn't have any holding power, because you are saying the text says something different than what the actual text says. The text SAYS MADE. BobRyan and DHK say created. I'll take Scripture.

Nice story now where does God say "I am working for six days again and by that I mean 6,000 literal years"???

Well you show me another place in Scripture where God worked for another six literal 24-hour days and then rested on the seventh day. It doesn't exist. The only other possibility is that God is working six days, but this day is longer than 24 hours in length.

When comparing Scripture with Scripture we see that Peter tells us that a day with the Lord is a 1,000 years and a 1,000 years a day. So His new redemptive work is 6,000 years.

God used BOTH for that same 7 day week so that there would be no mincing nor parsing no wriggling out of admitting that God both CREATED AND MADE all things on earth in Creation WEEK of EXACTLY SIX "evenings and mornings".

I love it when you keep proving my points for me. Of course He did BOTH. And again BOTH indicates two separate things not the same thing.

It's too bad you can't have it both ways huh Bob.

You claim that a child that is not an adult is "God messing up" a seed that is not a mature plant with fruit is "God messing up" and that the world that starts with water on it is "God messing up"??

Why do you claim that an ordered sequence of progressive events is "God messing up" is there some TEXT of scripture that says that this is to be called "God messing up" or are you just making stuff up???

Dug yourself such a big hole you've had to resort to lying again huh Bob.

I never claimed any of that.

The earth was formless, dark and void. If that was the way God had intended to start the process why didn't He say it was good after that? If that was His intentions then it was good, but yet for some reason He doesn't say that about the earth. Wonder why? Oh maybe because in Isaiah He makes it clear that He didn't create the earth in that state to begin with or otherwise.

You know for someone that makes such a big deal out of people ignoring Scripture and other things it amazes me how hard you fight to hold onto something that is clearly error. You have one single verse in Exodus 20 and it doesn't even say what you want it to say yet you are going to continue to believe error. But Bob you are more than welcome to continue to do that. It's sad, but still possible.

It would just be nice if you didn't have to lie about others when you come up against that brick wall like you talk about.

How many times can you lie about someone before you are unsaved Bob? I'm just curious?

 

[BobRyan]

Bob said
Quote:
How about "because He did not want us to claim that in the six day creation week God MADE but did not CREATE life on earth. Rather He summarized the entire week claiming that He did BOTH".

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed[/b], and all their hosts.
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.[/b].

J Jump said
Now you are contradicting yourself. I can't be BOTH, because the two words mean the same thing right. BOTH would indicate two separate things.

And yes I believe He used both of those words because He did BOTH of those actions. They don't mean the same thing. They are different things.

The point is moot since the Bible says He did BOTH in the Genesis creation week and YOUR argument needs to argue "oh no he did not".

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed[/b], and all their hosts.
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.[/b].

The point remains.

And you keep going back to the same tired argument of Exodus 20 which DID NOT say God "created," but rather God MADE.

A distinction withot a difference SINCE in Gen 2:3-4 we see that He did BOTH. You keep "wanting to argue from the void" in Exodus 20 "He MADE those things in six days AND THAT MUST MEAN he did not also CREATE them in those six days".

But obviously your entire argument died in Gen 2:3-4 where we see that your bogus insertion does not hold up!

How many more times would you like this flaw in your argument exposed?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Now you are contradicting yourself. I can't be BOTH, because the two words mean the same thing right. BOTH would indicate two separate things.

And yes I believe He used both of those words because He did BOTH of those actions. They don't mean the same thing. They are different things.

Let's look at this verse in question:

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it, because that on it he rested from all his work which God had created in making it. (Darby)

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He had rested from all His work which God created to make. (MKJV)

The KJV may not have the most accurate translation. Even the MKJV states "created to make." The difference in the two verbs is this. "Create" (bara) means to create out of nothing, something man cannot do. It refers to the great and almight power that God has. "Made" (asah) has the sense of to put things in order. God did not only create things out of nothing put he also put them in order. God is a God of order. This speaks to Intelligent Design, an argument we use in favor of Creation. Thus both words are used to support both aspects of his creation.

However the average reader may not see that. The average reader will see one word emphasizing the other which it does. This is common in many Scriptures. Jesus gave the promise: "I will never leave thee or forsake thee." Twice he gives the promise that he will always be with us. He says it twice for emphasis. The student of the Word may go deeper and find the differences between the two phrases. But the average reader will see that Christ uses the two phrases for emphasis which is also correct, just as create and made are also used for emphasis.

And you keep going back to the same tired argument of Exodus 20 which DID NOT say God "created," but rather God MADE. The ONLY evidence you have given for a six day creation doesn't have any holding power, because you are saying the text says something different than what the actual text says. The text SAYS MADE. BobRyan and DHK say created. I'll take Scripture.

One cannot escape the truths taught in Exodus 20, nor in the rest of the Bible. All throughout the Bible the Sabbath is referred to as a 24 hour day. God is a God of order, not chaos. It is only logical if the Sabbath Day was 24 hours, so were all the other days. They are all defined the same way: "the morning and the evening were the ___day." When that formula is used it always refers to a 24 hour day, no exceptions made. God MADE. God put in order that which he created. It speaks of his creation. When he ceased from his creation (rested), he didn't create any longer. All creation was done in those six days. He ceased from his creation, until such a time would come when this creation would be destroyed and a new one would be needed.

Well you show me another place in Scripture where God worked for another six literal 24-hour days and then rested on the seventh day. It doesn't exist. The only other possibility is that God is working six days, but this day is longer than 24 hours in length.
When comparing Scripture with Scripture we see that Peter tells us that a day with the Lord is a 1,000 years and a 1,000 years a day. So His new redemptive work is 6,000 years.

Do you care to accurately quote the verse?

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

I find it significant that in your version of this verse you left out these little words "as" which indicate that the verse is a similie, a figure of speech. It doesn't say that one day is a thousand years. It says it is as a thousand years. It is speaking of time in eternity. It defines it by saying "With the Lord," not with man. With the Lord (in heaven) one day is as a thousand years. There is no time with God. To apply this verse to the creation is just absurd.

I love it when you keep proving my points for me. Of course He did BOTH. And again BOTH indicates two separate things not the same thing.

It's too bad you can't have it both ways

I already showed you that both words (create and made) show two aspects of the same creation. Your objection is moot.

The earth was formless, dark and void. If that was the way God had intended to start the process why didn't He say it was good after that? If that was His intentions then it was good, but yet for some reason He doesn't say that about the earth. Wonder why? Oh maybe because in Isaiah He makes it clear that He didn't create the earth in that state to begin with or otherwise.

He did say it was good. He did it after he looked over all of his creation was finished; not at the beginning of it. Isaiah doesn't make it clear that He didn't create the earth in that state. You have yet to prove that point; you just state it without any evidence to back it up.

You have one single verse in Exodus 20 and it doesn't even say what you want it to say yet you are going to continue to believe error. But Bob you are more than welcome to continue to do that. It's sad, but still possible.

Do a word search on the word "Sabbath," and see what you come up with. Read the latter half of Exodus 31. It also emphasizes the same thing. There is not just one place; there are many. The Ten Commandments is the most obvious place to look.
It seems that you have a lot of homework to do.
I hope you don't mind that I took the time to answer Bob's post for him.

 

[BobRyan]

You know for someone that makes such a big deal out of people ignoring Scripture and other things it amazes me how hard you fight to hold onto something that is clearly error. You have one single verse in Exodus 20 and it doesn't even say what you want it to say yet you are going to continue to believe error. But Bob you are more than welcome to continue to do that. It's sad, but still possible.

Now I am curious - just what is the "error" you think I hold??

 

[J. Jump]

The point is moot since the Bible says He did BOTH in the Genesis creation week and YOUR argument needs to argue "oh no he did not".

Of course it's moot to you because it defeats your whole argument. The problem is it is not moot. It is far from it. Genesis 1:1 said He "created" Exodus 20 said He made. Genesis 1:1 is not related to the six days. It just says He created. He didn't tell us in how many days. Exodus 20 says He "made" the earth in six days and rested on the seventh so the "making" is tied to the seven-day period.

A distinction withot a difference SINCE in Gen 2:3-4 we see that He did BOTH. You keep "wanting to argue from the void" in Exodus 20 "He MADE those things in six days AND THAT MUST MEAN he did not also CREATE them in those six days".

Bob this is what your statement here says about you - :BangHead:

:laugh:

You just keep hittin' that wall don't ya :laugh:.

OF COURSE HE DID BOTH. How many times can I say that and then you accuse me of not believing it. He did both. That's my WHOLE point. And that DESTROYS your idea. BOTH means two different things. But your argument is made and create are the same thing, but the text says they are different.

How many more times would you like this flaw in your argument exposed?

Keep exposing it PLEASE. Because everytime you do you actually prove my point. So by all means keep posting your color coded Scripture because it's only backing up what I've said.

 

[J. Jump]

The KJV may not have the most accurate translation.

That may be true. However if that is the case and the KJV and the NASB are incorrect it only destroys your ideas even further it seems, because the creation is in reference to the works not the earth. So the idea is not that He created the earth, but that He created the works.

Again either way this gives no legitimacy to Exodus 20 talking about making and creating being the same thing.

"Create" (bara) means to create out of nothing, something man cannot do. It refers to the great and almight power that God has. "Made" (asah) has the sense of to put things in order. God did not only create things out of nothing put he also put them in order.

Here again you prove my point. Bara and asah are NOT the same thing. Bara is creating out of nothing and asah is making.

But what you are saying is that a God of perfect order started with something out of order and put it in order. Sorry that just doesn't happen. God doesn't create something that isn't perfect. God does not create disorder just to place in order. He starts with perfect order.

One cannot escape the truths taught in Exodus 20, nor in the rest of the Bible.

That is certainly true, so why are you trying so hard :laugh:. Sorry I couldn't resist.

God is a God of order, not chaos.

This is ABSOLUTELY true, yet for some reason you want me to believe that God started with something that was out of order and chaotic. Sorry that makes no sense. A God or order creates something out of order? Hmmm....just doesn't fit.

I find it significant that in your version of this verse you left out these little words "as" which indicate that the verse is a similie, a figure of speech.

Well this statement shows how much you don't know about the little word "as." This little word can also be direct comparison.

There are actually three ways the word can be translated. Might want to brush up on some things before you start insinuating someone doesn't know something.

To apply this verse to the creation is just absurd.

It's not applied to creation per se, but rather to God's current work. God said He is working six days again and will rest on the seventh. So if He's working six days there is only one of two things that can mean. Either one His work is finished and it would be nice to know what He finished creating the second time. But this is impossible, because He wouldn't want to remind Israel of something He's already done. The Sabbath was and still is pointing to the future. That time of rest has not come yet. God is still working.

So we see that it is not a literal 24-hour day this time. Peter gives us a time line as to God's new work. Each day is equated to 1,000 years. God has been and will continue to work for six days (6,000 years) and He will rest on the seventh-day (1,000-year kingdom of Christ - that is the coming Sabbath).

I already showed you that both words (create and made) show two aspects of the same creation. Your objection is moot.

And now I'm anxious to see how you are going to wiggle your way out of a God of perfect order creating disorder. This ought to be good. I may go pop me some popcorn for this one.

He did say it was good. He did it after he looked over all of his creation was finished; not at the beginning of it.

That's odd He says that He saw it and it was good several times before a completed statement of goodness, yet He doesn't say that after a void, dark and formless earth. Hmmmmm....

Isaiah doesn't make it clear that He didn't create the earth in that state.

Are you KIDDING me?

For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain,

How much more clear can that be. He said He created it NOT in vain. Are you really going to say that Isaiah 45:18 is not clear. That's the best you've got to offer.

It seems that you have a lot of homework to do.

I'll consider the source on that statement if you don't mind. :laugh:

 

[BobRyan]

Bob reads Gen 2:1-4

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed[/b], and all their hosts.
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.[/b].

Bob notes that since God states that He BOTH Created AND MADE all that we see in those Six days being MADE and Created -- the J Jump argument trying to say "NO he only Made things - He did not CREATE them in those six days" falls into never never land.

Of course it's moot to you because it defeats your whole argument. The problem is it is not moot. It is far from it. Genesis 1:1 said He "created" Exodus 20 said He made. Genesis 1:1 is not related to the six days.

Err umm - "ok".

I am talking about the 7 day creation week not the things that were created BEFORE that 7 day week.

It just says He created. He didn't tell us in how many days.

Speaking of Gen 1:1 and everything BUT "all life on earth, the sun and the moon, the dry land of earth etc"???

Exodus 20 says He "made" the earth in six days and rested on the seventh so the "making" is tied to the seven-day period.

In Gen 2:1-4 it is BOTH the MAKING and the CREATING that is tied to the 7 days.

But it is specific to those things MENTIONED in that SEVEN days-- the earth, all life on earth, the Sun and the Moon.

in Christ,

Bob