Islam is a false religion based on lies. There can be no credibility in what they say or do. In general, they have been supportive of or passive towards terrorism and J had. I think Muslims - all true Muslims - have a strong desire to destroy America and Christianity. I think the purpose of the mosque is to spread both those goals right at the base of the terrorist attack which they have glorified. I think no good whatsoever will come of their presence anywhere in our nation and most certainly not where they want to build this mosque.
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Obama Endorses Mosque Project Near Ground Zero Site
- Thread starter Jedi Knight
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Islam is a false religion based on lies. There can be no credibility in what they say or do. In general, they have been supportive of or passive towards terrorism and J had. I think Muslims - all true Muslims - have a strong desire to destroy America and Christianity. I think the purpose of the mosque is to spread both those goals right at the base of the terrorist attack which they have glorified. I think no good whatsoever will come of their presence anywhere in our nation and most certainly not where they want to build this mosque.
No argument.
Define "they." If you mean every living Muslim, then you're wrong. If you mean Muslims as a general rule, well, you're still committing the error of over-generalization. If you mean certain sects of Muslims, then I agree.
I take personal offense to this statement. Define "true Muslims." I think you mean "fanatical." You see, I spent March 2009 through March 2010 practically living with Afghanistan Muslims, and I know your statement is false. I have personal friends still there that I've discussed religion with, and even they agree that certain Muslims, and sects of Muslims, are diwanna (crazy).
If you want to have correct thoughts about Muslims, then you need to think about them the same way Baptists think about Catholics, that Baptists and Catholics think about Mormons, etc.
No argument. The location of the mosque is at best, poor taste; at worst, a figurative slap in the face of every American, whether American Muslim or Jew or Christian.
Why do you take "personal offense to this statement" if you are not a Muslim?
The entire "religion" of Islam is based on lies - as are all false religions. Islam is aggressively determined to destroy Christianity and also America. Of course, there are individuals who are not so overt in their actions but they all, at the very least, offer passive support to these goals.
We have not seen an outpouring of protest from any Muslim groups that should lead us to believe they really and truly oppose the overall goals. On the other hand, have we not had enough examples to demonstrate that or do we need to keep kidding ourselves that it's just another peaceful religion that means us no harm?
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Robert Snow
New Member
Here you go again Bro. Curtis, making a fool of yourself.
I have not posted one thing on this thread, yet you feel the need to insult me and accuse me of a position I have not taken. You really have a problem with the truth, don't you?
For your information, I oppose the building of this Mosque. Just like when the building of a dump or some other use of land is opposed by the citizens and they voice their concerns in a city counsel meeting; often the city then refuses to grant a permit based on the will of the people in that area. I think the people of New York have a legitimate reason to oppose this structure based on what was done on September 11, 2001.
BTW, don't worry Curtis, instead of being angry, I will pray for you.
From a recent Townhall issue:
"In 1980, there were 481 officially recognized Mosques in the United States. Today, there are 1,209, with an estimated 80 percent of those funded and controlled by Saudi Arabia, where the official religion is virulently anti-Western Wahhabi Islam.
Paul Sperry and David Gaubatz’s book “Muslim Mafia” exposes the Muslim Brotherhood’s activities in America using declassified FBI documents, FBI agent interviews, transcripts of telephone wire taps and thousands of internal documents smuggled out of CAIR headquarters by Gaubatz’s son, Chris Gaubatz, who posed as an American convert to Islam and was hired by CAIR. They demonstrate that the Brotherhood is now a worldwide central clearinghouse for virtually all Sunni terrorist groups, is operating inside U.S. mosques across the country and is in complete control of CAIR and its myriad subsidiaries.
And while the House of Saud attempts to portray itself as a loyal U.S. trading partner, the authors prove that it is actually financing and partnering with the Brotherhood, that it is actively undermining our national security, and that it controls CAIR and at least 46 other supposedly moderate Muslim front groups in the United States, along with countless other subsidiary shell companies. And for the first time, they expose the Brotherhood’s five-phase plan for dominating America:
• Phase I: Establish an elite Muslim Leadership and raise Islamicist consciousness in the community;
• Phase II: Create Islamic institutions that the leadership can control and form autonomous Muslim enclaves;
• Phase III: Infiltrate America’s political and social institutions forming a shadow state; escalate conversions; manipulate mass media to remove language offensive to Islam;
• Phase IV: Open hostile public confrontation over U.S. policies, riot, make militant demands for special rights and accommodations;
• Phase V: Wage final conflict and overthrow (jihad).
According to Sperry and Gaubatz, the consensus among counterterrorism officials is that the North American Brotherhood is already in Phase III."
"In 1980, there were 481 officially recognized Mosques in the United States. Today, there are 1,209, with an estimated 80 percent of those funded and controlled by Saudi Arabia, where the official religion is virulently anti-Western Wahhabi Islam.
Paul Sperry and David Gaubatz’s book “Muslim Mafia” exposes the Muslim Brotherhood’s activities in America using declassified FBI documents, FBI agent interviews, transcripts of telephone wire taps and thousands of internal documents smuggled out of CAIR headquarters by Gaubatz’s son, Chris Gaubatz, who posed as an American convert to Islam and was hired by CAIR. They demonstrate that the Brotherhood is now a worldwide central clearinghouse for virtually all Sunni terrorist groups, is operating inside U.S. mosques across the country and is in complete control of CAIR and its myriad subsidiaries.
And while the House of Saud attempts to portray itself as a loyal U.S. trading partner, the authors prove that it is actually financing and partnering with the Brotherhood, that it is actively undermining our national security, and that it controls CAIR and at least 46 other supposedly moderate Muslim front groups in the United States, along with countless other subsidiary shell companies. And for the first time, they expose the Brotherhood’s five-phase plan for dominating America:
• Phase I: Establish an elite Muslim Leadership and raise Islamicist consciousness in the community;
• Phase II: Create Islamic institutions that the leadership can control and form autonomous Muslim enclaves;
• Phase III: Infiltrate America’s political and social institutions forming a shadow state; escalate conversions; manipulate mass media to remove language offensive to Islam;
• Phase IV: Open hostile public confrontation over U.S. policies, riot, make militant demands for special rights and accommodations;
• Phase V: Wage final conflict and overthrow (jihad).
According to Sperry and Gaubatz, the consensus among counterterrorism officials is that the North American Brotherhood is already in Phase III."
Because in your over-generalization, you include personal friends of mine. Thus, you have insulted friends of mine; thus, I take offense.
Define "passive support." The ones I know vocalize how stupid the fanatics are.
So the same can be said about all Baptists, thanks to Fred Phelps?
I've read the posts here and am of the opinion that the United States and the citizens of this fair country---as well as other countries such as the UK will be accepting of the Islam faith---which is an anti-Christ
We are headed downhill toward what the Lord Jesus Christ describes as "The Times of Jacob's Trouble"----that if those days are not shortened there will be none left on Earth to testify of its divestation! And I believe that the peacful loving Muslim faith will be "Ring Leader" of world disorder in that time period---what we're seeing now---the building of a mosque near GZ---among other such risings----is IMPO a preview of things to come
Then after Jacob's terrible trouble is settled----the Lord Jesus will return to Earth in majesty and splendor to establish His One Thousand Year reign and the islamic religion will no longer be a blip on the spiritual radar---nor will it even be a blur on that radar but will be devoured by Hell itself during that time
The days are coming----hang on to your seats because the ride there is gonna get rough(er) than just the building of a silly building next to GZ!!
We are headed downhill toward what the Lord Jesus Christ describes as "The Times of Jacob's Trouble"----that if those days are not shortened there will be none left on Earth to testify of its divestation! And I believe that the peacful loving Muslim faith will be "Ring Leader" of world disorder in that time period---what we're seeing now---the building of a mosque near GZ---among other such risings----is IMPO a preview of things to come
Then after Jacob's terrible trouble is settled----the Lord Jesus will return to Earth in majesty and splendor to establish His One Thousand Year reign and the islamic religion will no longer be a blip on the spiritual radar---nor will it even be a blur on that radar but will be devoured by Hell itself during that time
The days are coming----hang on to your seats because the ride there is gonna get rough(er) than just the building of a silly building next to GZ!!
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Your reading comprehension skills have once again let you down. I didn't mention your name in the Hamosque context. I said you wanted Limbaugh taken off the air. Even formed it into a question.
I'll wait for the apology.
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Robert Snow
New Member
You referred to me as "...and his chihuahua R.S..." which was an insult
The odd thing, as I mentioned, is that I had not even commented on this thread at all.
I don't feel I owe you an apology, in fact, I think it's the other way around.
Why don't you comment on the OP instead of personal insults?
The generalization about Islam is that it is a dangerous false religion and all its followers - including your friends and mine - are ruled by it - not God's word.
The word of God is offensive to all non-believers - which includes you and me prior to our conversion - and especially so to Islam which promotes violence against Christians and against America. We don't need to purposefully insult others - shouldn't do so if it can be avoided - but we have to speak the truth and stand for the truth and, in so doing, there's no way to avoid offending your friends in matters of belief. You cannot associate with Satan's followers without ultimately getting to the point of fundamental conflict. If that can be "peaceful" then great but with Islam that is ultimately not possible. When we shy away from that we don't confront the unbelief and that is not good for them. If we have non-believing friends it should be our goal to bring them to a knowledge of God's word - not remain silent just so they are not "offended".
Passive support means just going along with or ignoring or making excuses about something that's wrong but not actively opposing it. That's what the so-called "peaceful" Muslims do. That's what a lot on non-Muslims who don't want to accept the magnitude of the threat we're facing also do.
No, the "same thing" cannot be said about differences between Christian denominations and, in fact, about some other non-Christian religions who are just as lost in their beliefs but do not have an active agenda of violence not withstanding that they are also the enemies of God. Yes, the "same thing" could be said about Christians if they are not actively opposing Islam by proclaiming His truth to everyone they can.
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Absolutely!
And you reference other people as "like a dog in heat". I thought you liked canine insults. If you want to dish it out, leasrn to take it.
So what ?
I'll watch you, and when I feel you hold yourself to the same standard, I'll consider it.
Agreed. I've reached that point of conflict with Muslims, Catholics, and Mormons.
How many Muslims have you talked to? Again, you're over-generalizing. You've almost got me believing you think Muslims can't be converted to Christianity.
Are you implying something here? If so, would you be more clear?
Again, how many Muslims have you personally talked to?
Are we talking about the same Fred Phelps? Or the Army of God? You do understand, don't you, how those entities appear to others outside the U.S.?
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There building this because they are probably the only people left with any money to build anything. The American public should make sure that Gay Bar goes right next door.:smilewinkgrin:
Nailed what?!? Drawing the analigy of a rape victim ..... that is just absurd. Do you know what that type of emotional appeal will sound like in a court of law? Have you ever studied much less read the constitution? Please, you must do better than that.
BTW, I am a conservative, a NY'er, I lost friends & associates in 911 & I'm opposed to its being built anywhere on that Island. OK?
I know a few Muslims, a few more Hindus, a lot more Buddhists, a good many others, and a whole lot of agnostics.
I have read some portions of the Koran in an effort to understand the venom in it and how it is directed at Christianity. Anyone who professes to be a Muslim is ultimately going to bound by the directions in the Koran. If they are not doing so they ultimately will be driven to so by others or will be forced to break from Islam and join the infidels. I don't have to know very many Muslims to understand what their "bible" instructs.
I don't doubt the Lord's ability to convert anyone to Christianity. He did it for me and I'm not better than anyone else. He is the only true God and every belief other than in Him is based upon lies.
What you mean by "implying something"? I meant what I wrote and don't think it needs much more explanation. We do no good service to friends and family when we avoid confronting their unbelief or sinful conduct for purposes that give Him the glory. That includes evangelizing non-believers, rebuking and correcting fellow believers, and protecting the folk around us. What are you asking about?
What strikes me is not based on the limited number of Muslims any one of us might know - you, me, or just about everyone else on this board - but rather, on the virtual lack of active objection to what many call the "radical" Muslims from within the Islamic faith and instead, the frequent connections that are made between such radicals and the current events involving Muslims. I just don't see the "peaceful" elements of Islam counting for much and consider it unwise to think it is so!
I'm not affiliated with Westboro Baptist Church. Could it be that you were implying something by that question? But, regardless, it is right to call Islam exactly what it is and, while we should not seek to personally offend an individual in a manner that's based upon human hatred, we cannot proclaim the Gospel to them without offending what they otherwise believe knowing full well that God does hate the evil that opposes Him. It would be nice if the world would love us but they will hate us so I don't worry too much about that they think. In fact, given the Biblical instruction, we're more likely to be on the right track when they like us the least and, no, that does not condone our improper actions.
Islam is yet another great threat facing our nation and Christianity today. We need to aggressively fight against it every means available and starting with prayer that we be empowered and equipped to be successful in His name.
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All I'm attempting to do is see if you understand that, whether we're Muslim, Christian, Mormorn, or Buddhist, we tend to be basically the same (added for clarity: Not in religions, but in human nature). It was an eye-opener for me to find out that the large number of Muslims in the countries I've visited don't actually hang out cursing the U.S. How many conversations I've had with the "Muslim on the street corner" who thanked us Americans for helping them get out from under oppression. Who are truly supportive of the American support, and are willing to sit and discuss differences in religion.
Not what you see on television, that's for sure.
Further, when you consider the literacy rate of places like Afghanistan, the additional problem you have is that the large percentages of the populations only know what their imams and spiritual leaders tell them that the Koran says. The fact that you've read it makes you decades--centuries?--ahead of them.
Sort of like the Catholics a few hundred years ago, ya know?
In other words, if you were a Muslim with only a television to tell him about Baptists, your last paragraph would read like:
Now, here's my point: Understand how the other side thinks. They *don't* think "let's kill every Christian we see"; they think, "there go professors of a false religion." Once you get it into your head how the "enemy" thinks, that his thinking is not really that much different than yours, then you can anticipate his arguments and his questions, and you can develop strategies that show him what the real truth of the matter is.
Tell me again how you're different than the Muslims?
Not what you see on television, that's for sure.
And all those fit exactly into the generalization that you've painted?
But there's a distinction there that you're not drawing. Unlike our country, theirs ties their politics and their religion together so tightly, they can't be separated. Many of them may disagree with something like stoning adulterers, and think it should be stopped (just as we don't); however, it hasn't been overturned in their laws.
Further, when you consider the literacy rate of places like Afghanistan, the additional problem you have is that the large percentages of the populations only know what their imams and spiritual leaders tell them that the Koran says. The fact that you've read it makes you decades--centuries?--ahead of them.
Good; just checking for clarity.
We are conversing in print only; I simply wanted to make sure you weren't under the impression that simply because people have friends who are Muslims, doesn't mean that they're avoiding telling those Muslim friends about the Gospel.
Consider what is unwise? That there are peaceful elements of Islam? I'll agree with you that there appears to be a minority; but again, I'll point out that a lot of them, due to not being able to read the Koran themselves, are simply going by what their religious authorities tell them.
Sort of like the Catholics a few hundred years ago, ya know?
Nope. To come to that sort of conclusion is a stretch at best. The only implication I might be trying to draw is that your words are exactly the same as Muslims in other parts of the world, when they describe Christianity (and Baptists in particular), because all they see on television is the stories about the Westboro congregation.
In other words, if you were a Muslim with only a television to tell him about Baptists, your last paragraph would read like:
Now, here's my point: Understand how the other side thinks. They *don't* think "let's kill every Christian we see"; they think, "there go professors of a false religion." Once you get it into your head how the "enemy" thinks, that his thinking is not really that much different than yours, then you can anticipate his arguments and his questions, and you can develop strategies that show him what the real truth of the matter is.
"Every means available"? You care to elaborate on that a little more? Because here's your comment coming from an Islam point of view:
Tell me again how you're different than the Muslims?
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Now, back to the point of this thread: I've said it before, I'll say it again. Putting a mosque in that particular location is not being inclusive and/or generating any type of understanding between peoples. And the fact that they refuse to meet with the governor to talk about other proposed locations is a strong indicator that they're more worried about location than about creating bridges of understanding.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/244106/muslims-against-mosque-matthew-shaffer
Why aren't we hearing more of this on Fox News or CNN?
Answer: Because both are more concerned about inciting emotions, and thus raising ratings.
Why aren't we hearing more of this on Fox News or CNN?
Answer: Because both are more concerned about inciting emotions, and thus raising ratings.