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"Obama will be tested".....Biden

windcatcher

New Member
Pastor Larry said:
I am not sure that, given the hand he was dealt, he did that bad. In the long term, I think history will look more favorably on Bush than the present does, due to the political partisanship that reigns supreme, even in, or especially in the media who colors the pictures. He has certainly made some mistakes. But interestingly, in avoiding the Israeli/Palestinian issue early on, he may have avoiding the very thing he was condemned for doing in Iraq -- namely, nation building. The reality is that some of you are so biased that he couldn't have won no matter what he did. In all the examples you give, there is no evidence what might have been different given different circumstances. Do you really think that Russia or North Korea or Iran would not have done what they have done under Gore or Kerry? For a long time, many have known that Russia wasn't done 15 years ago. They were going to try to revive their empire and we shouldn't be surprised that it is happening. If anything, Bush's "eagerness" to use force may have in fact delayed the development of nuclear weapons, or the attempted reconstitution of the Soviet Union. While we might not like force and war, we have to admit that the willingness to use it (and not just talk about it) has tremendous persuasive ability. So what would have happened had Bush not gone to war in Iraq? Perhaps Russia is bigger and stronger than they are now, and perhaps Iran already has nuclear weapons, and perhaps North Korea already has them. And for certain, Hussein is still killing his political opponents by the thousands. So I am not sure your arguments make sense or are persuasive to anyone who isn't already predisposed to your conclusion. Over all, I think Bush has been horrible as a president, but not so much for his foreign policy as for his domestic policy. Don't kid yourself. They may not, but they certainly can, and given their record of being on the wrong side of things, we shouldn't be surprised if they do.
Pastor Larry, while I've been pretty negative about President Bush, still I think there is much which you've said which is true..... and given the choices which we had at those times, the best one went into office. I do believe the office of the Presidency has many pressures put upon it to conform to the advice and plans of others, less known, but more established in positions of influence, power and finance and no President today has the freedom of choice and the backing of people in quite the same way that history has me believing our early Presidents had.

Who President Bush might appoint is one example: No matter who he appoints..... the Congress doesn't just approve based upon preparation and qualification for office, but often exercises its powers by acting as the gatekeeper screening for differences in policy or agreement in values with the collective values of those, first in the screening committee....which controls whether or not an appointee comes to a vote.... to the moderation of the whole body which must also pass agreement.

We give much blame to the President for decisions which result from the actions of Congress: I feel blessed to be living in a congressional district in which both parties are active, but not nearly as established in power and influence over the values of those in the district..... thus, the representative of my district is frequently not as dependant upon being a political patsy to the organization, and the representation is more in line with the opinions of the people. Not all representation is as close to the people because the ones promoted in elections are already agreed with the established influence of party leadership within their district instead of agreement and closeness to the people....and are dependant upon the activism within their party both for funds to run and promotion ....which the latter is purposely slanted to win the vote. Every 2 years, a representative is elected to office, and once sworn, starts getting indoctrinated into the mores of that body, and learns quickly, that to get anything done for his district and state, he must reach points of agreement with others, often with compromise.

Every 6 years we send two senators to office...... by the popular vote in the state. The newbie in the Senate, especially if without prior experience in either body of Congress, comes under the similar processes in orientation and blending in as did our representatives..... but have longer to carry forth their function.

But our orignial constitution required that it was the State Legislatures who were to elect the Senators and not the popular vote of the people. Our forefathers recognized that a body in the Congress whose office was under the control of the leaders within each state, would be more answerable to the people of the state in their dependance, and more protective of the powers which belong to the state or they would be removed by the oversight of the body which put them there in the first place.... Thus their loyalty was subject more to the state and its people than to a particular party or other influences. It was a very good plan...... but that plan was changed..... and now we have what we have.

Sorry, but I guess I got off topic.:praying:
 
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Pastor Larry

<b>Moderator</b>
Site Supporter
Crabtownboy said:
He has earned my negative view of his presidency.
To make a broad point, and not be negative personally against you, but what are your qualifications to judge a presidency? Probably the same as mine ... None. I don't think most citizens have any clue as to how to judge a presidency, just like I think they don't have any clue about how to run a country. That is why polls on most public policy issues are meaningless. There is no way to expect the majority of this country to have an informed opinion on these issues.
believe his foreign policy has been a disaster and will be viewed as a disasterous period by history.
It depends, to a large degree, on what happens in the middle east. If, in 50 years, the Middle East has thriving democracies, Bush will be viewed as a great leader. If the Middle East returns to its previous state, he will be viewed as a failure.
 

saturneptune

New Member
You both make good points about Bush. He is really a curious mixture. Truman is a good example of history changing his standing. Truman had a 23% approval rating when he left office. I believe over time, Nixon's standing will greatly improve. It could be in the future, Bush will have a better standing than now. I have never seen the American people as a whole so angry at a President. It is the only reason Obama, who is a radical liberal, has a chance of winning.
 

just-want-peace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
saturneptune said:
You both make good points about Bush. He is really a curious mixture. Truman is a good example of history changing his standing. Truman had a 23% approval rating when he left office. I believe over time, Nixon's standing will greatly improve. It could be in the future, Bush will have a better standing than now. I have never seen the American people as a whole so angry at a President. It is the only reason Obama, who is a radical liberal, has a chance of winning.
Emphasis mine

I personally believe that the reason for the above (bolded) is the absolute negative media coverage Bush has had to endure during his term. And one of the biggest reasons the media has been against him is because he has been successful in some areas, so they have concentrated on his blurbs.

This present congress that was going to set new standards "in political ethics" (HA!!!!) has bucked him at every turn, and in turn blamed him and the Rs for everything bad but the mange on Pelosi's dog. (I have no doubt she would try that, if she tho't she could make it stick!!)

Until we get back to journalists REPORTING, rather than editorializing and opioniating, and printing ANYTHING just so they can scoop the competition, we are going to have this whopsided view by Joe Sixpack since he depends on others (mostly) to do his thinking for him. :BangHead::BangHead:
 

JustChristian

New Member
Enoch said:
As a friendly reminder those "failed policies" have kept you and your family safe since 9/11. You can rest peacefully at night while others fight for you!

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]


How do you know that? I would have felt safer if we had concentrated on Afghanistan and captured bin Laden and most of his associates, wouldn't you?
 

Bible-boy

Active Member
Crabtownboy said:
Everything he has done has been a disaster, starting with his decision when he took office for his first term to not hold joint discussions with the Israelis and the Palestinians. He was forced, by disasterous circumstances to change that policy.
The current policy of trying to force the Israelis to agree to a craved up Israel/Palestinian State is a disaster waiting to happen.


Crabtownboy said:
His neglect of the Afghans has lead to the resurgence of the Talibans and the mess we have there now.
The war in Afghanistan has not been "neglected." We've gone over this time and time again. The U.S. troop levels in Afghanistan have remained pretty much the same from 2002 to the present. We had a thread on this issue that listed US troop levels for each year and there was little if any fluctuation. However, you keep trying to push the liberal Dem talking point.


Crabtownboy said:
His entrance into an unjust war has cost the US billions a week, and the good will of most of the world as well as thousands of young Americans lives wasted.
This liberal Dem talking point has likewise been debunked and refuted so many times in this forum it is almost ridiculous for you to mention it here yet again.


Crabtownboy said:
He has managed to renew the cold war.
Really, how so? How is it President Bush's fault that an oil/gas wealthy Russia is now starting to try to flex its old Soviet muscle?


Crabtownboy said:
He has caved in to the N. Koreans and declared thay are not a terrorist state.
Didn't the N. Koreans do a bit of "caving in" regarding their nuke facilities in order to bring about some of these changes?


Crabtownboy said:
His refusal to even talk with Iran has lead to a potential disaster.
No US President has directly "talked" to Iran since Jimmy Carter. What potential Iranian "disaster" has suddenly come about that is wholly President Bush's fault?


Crabtownboy said:
And this is not even to mention the disasters he has brought about for the US in other areas.
Specifics with evidence and sources please. Otherwise it is just you blowing heated rhetoric trying make your argument sound better...
:tonofbricks:
 
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Pastor Larry

<b>Moderator</b>
Site Supporter
BaptistBeliever said:
How do you know that? I would have felt safer if we had concentrated on Afghanistan and captured bin Laden and most of his associates, wouldn't you?
Feeling safer is irrelevant. Being safe is relevant, and since 9/11 the policies of Bush have prevented another attack on US soil. We have captured a number of Bin Laden's associates and there is no guarantee that we would have captured Bin Laden had we not been in Iraq. So your position is faulty on a number of fronts, both emotionally and logically as well as militarily. You are evidence of the fact that common people shouldn't be making military decisions.
 

LadyEagle

<b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
Biden also said, "Gird your loins." I wonder what THAT is supposed to mean? It sounds like something out of the KJV....

:tonofbricks:
 

Bible-boy

Active Member
LadyEagle said:
Biden also said, "Gird your loins." I wonder what THAT is supposed to mean? It sounds like something out of the KJV....

:tonofbricks:

It is and it refers to the way men used to dress with long robes over a tunic (long-tailed shirt). In biblical times when men had to either run or fight they would reach down between their legs and gather up the long ends of their robes, pull them up around their thighes, and tuck the ends into their belts. Thus, girding their loins. Joe, being part of the wave the white flag of surrender gang, likely used the biblical quote as a way of letting everyone know that they need to get ready to run away.:tonofbricks:
 

LeBuick

New Member
LadyEagle said:
Biden also said, "Gird your loins." I wonder what THAT is supposed to mean? It sounds like something out of the KJV....:

Yep, with Biden on your team, you can run against yourself and loose. He's more than a gaff machine, he's a self defeating enemy in his own camp.
 

carpro

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
LeBuick said:
Speaks some to his judgment but VP picks didn't prove outstanding for either camp.

Perhaps.

But McCain was at least astute enough to select a running mate that would actually help his campaign.

Obama...Biden? :rolleyes:
 

carpro

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Revmitchell said:
Bush hasn't made a mess of foreign relations. He, for the most part has done what he should have.

Primarily he tried to put American interests first.

That's a sure fire way to anger most of the world along with the "hate America first" liberals here at home.
 

LadyEagle

<b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
Bible-boy said:
It is and it refers to the way men used to dress with long robes over a tunic (long-tailed shirt). In biblical times when men had to either run or fight they would reach down between their legs and gather up the long ends of their robes, pull them up around their thighes, and tuck the ends into their belts. Thus, girding their loins. Joe, being part of the wave the white flag of surrender gang, likely used the biblical quote as a way of letting everyone know that they need to get ready to run away.:tonofbricks:



:laugh: :laugh: I guess that means all the Obama supporters will be joining the rest of us who already ran away on that fateful day in January 2009, lol.
 

Benjamin

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Bible-boy said:

No US President has directly "talked" to Iran since Jimmy Carter. What potential Iranian "disaster" has suddenly come about that is wholly President Bush's fault?

Yep, and a reminder that Carter wasn't taken serious by them at all, but now when Reagan got into to office the Iranians were like, "Nevermind, you can have the hostages back."

WE don't need a president right now that the terrorist dogs will test to see if he will tuck his tail.
 

LeBuick

New Member
Bro. Curtis said:
Do you think Obama will re-instate the draft ? Will you support him, if he does ?

If he has to it's because Bush rode the military like a step child. Some of those folks are on their 4th and 5th tours in to combat. Some are showing signs of battle fatigue. We never should have invaded Iraq with a war going on in Afghanistan.

@Rev.. That was Bush Foreign Policy blunder, he never should have invaded Iraq without the UN support.
 

LeBuick

New Member
Benjamin said:
Yep, and a reminder that Carter wasn't taken serious by them at all, but now when Reagan got into to office the Iranians were like, "Nevermind, you can have the hostages back."

WE don't need a president right now that the terrorist dogs will test to see if he will tuck his tail.

You and I know both know that was coincidence, the release for the hostages was negotiated before Reagan took oath.
 

Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
LeBuick said:
If he has to it's because Bush rode the military like a step child. Some of those folks are on their 4th and 5th tours in to combat. Some are showing signs of battle fatigue. We never should have invaded Iraq with a war going on in Afghanistan.

@Rev.. That was Bush Foreign Policy blunder, he never should have invaded Iraq without the UN support.

Wasn't it the U.N. that told us to invade ?

And it sounds like you will support the draft. and blame Bush. In fact, I suppose the zero will invoke Bush's name in a lot of his broken promises, & constitutional outrages, and you will support him.

Thanx for the heads-up.:thumbs:
 

Bro. Curtis

<img src =/curtis.gif>
Site Supporter
LeBuick said:
You and I know both know that was coincidence, the release for the hostages was negotiated before Reagan took oath.

:laugh:

Keep telling yourself that. Reagan had nothing to do with it. Click your heels...
 
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