windcatcher
New Member
Pastor Larry, while I've been pretty negative about President Bush, still I think there is much which you've said which is true..... and given the choices which we had at those times, the best one went into office. I do believe the office of the Presidency has many pressures put upon it to conform to the advice and plans of others, less known, but more established in positions of influence, power and finance and no President today has the freedom of choice and the backing of people in quite the same way that history has me believing our early Presidents had.Pastor Larry said:I am not sure that, given the hand he was dealt, he did that bad. In the long term, I think history will look more favorably on Bush than the present does, due to the political partisanship that reigns supreme, even in, or especially in the media who colors the pictures. He has certainly made some mistakes. But interestingly, in avoiding the Israeli/Palestinian issue early on, he may have avoiding the very thing he was condemned for doing in Iraq -- namely, nation building. The reality is that some of you are so biased that he couldn't have won no matter what he did. In all the examples you give, there is no evidence what might have been different given different circumstances. Do you really think that Russia or North Korea or Iran would not have done what they have done under Gore or Kerry? For a long time, many have known that Russia wasn't done 15 years ago. They were going to try to revive their empire and we shouldn't be surprised that it is happening. If anything, Bush's "eagerness" to use force may have in fact delayed the development of nuclear weapons, or the attempted reconstitution of the Soviet Union. While we might not like force and war, we have to admit that the willingness to use it (and not just talk about it) has tremendous persuasive ability. So what would have happened had Bush not gone to war in Iraq? Perhaps Russia is bigger and stronger than they are now, and perhaps Iran already has nuclear weapons, and perhaps North Korea already has them. And for certain, Hussein is still killing his political opponents by the thousands. So I am not sure your arguments make sense or are persuasive to anyone who isn't already predisposed to your conclusion. Over all, I think Bush has been horrible as a president, but not so much for his foreign policy as for his domestic policy. Don't kid yourself. They may not, but they certainly can, and given their record of being on the wrong side of things, we shouldn't be surprised if they do.
Who President Bush might appoint is one example: No matter who he appoints..... the Congress doesn't just approve based upon preparation and qualification for office, but often exercises its powers by acting as the gatekeeper screening for differences in policy or agreement in values with the collective values of those, first in the screening committee....which controls whether or not an appointee comes to a vote.... to the moderation of the whole body which must also pass agreement.
We give much blame to the President for decisions which result from the actions of Congress: I feel blessed to be living in a congressional district in which both parties are active, but not nearly as established in power and influence over the values of those in the district..... thus, the representative of my district is frequently not as dependant upon being a political patsy to the organization, and the representation is more in line with the opinions of the people. Not all representation is as close to the people because the ones promoted in elections are already agreed with the established influence of party leadership within their district instead of agreement and closeness to the people....and are dependant upon the activism within their party both for funds to run and promotion ....which the latter is purposely slanted to win the vote. Every 2 years, a representative is elected to office, and once sworn, starts getting indoctrinated into the mores of that body, and learns quickly, that to get anything done for his district and state, he must reach points of agreement with others, often with compromise.
Every 6 years we send two senators to office...... by the popular vote in the state. The newbie in the Senate, especially if without prior experience in either body of Congress, comes under the similar processes in orientation and blending in as did our representatives..... but have longer to carry forth their function.
But our orignial constitution required that it was the State Legislatures who were to elect the Senators and not the popular vote of the people. Our forefathers recognized that a body in the Congress whose office was under the control of the leaders within each state, would be more answerable to the people of the state in their dependance, and more protective of the powers which belong to the state or they would be removed by the oversight of the body which put them there in the first place.... Thus their loyalty was subject more to the state and its people than to a particular party or other influences. It was a very good plan...... but that plan was changed..... and now we have what we have.
Sorry, but I guess I got off topic.raying:
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