Are you under the impression that Calvinists think that people are as wicked as possible? Because that is not the case. We believe that people are subject to pervasive depravity. Sin spreads out into every area of one's life --at the heart of a person. A wicked and corrupt person is still capable of doing what others on a horizontal plane would be considered good. But at the heart is evil.
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Objections to Calvinism
- Thread starter Jordan Kurecki
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Love how Calvinists ignored the mountain of scripture in the O.P.
How about more like:
Adam had real Free Will, but he and all of us lost that un the Fall
We have free will to still chose even now, its just that as sinners we are constrained as to what we can now freely chose to do
God is in absolute control over all things that have or shall ever happen, as either he directly caused them, or allowed them to happen for His plans and purposes
There, glad to edit your "dictionary!"
They misunderstand that sinners being totally depraived refers to us being unable to seek out, come to God on ourselves, as we do hold that we are not all a Hitler!
I love how you did not respond to post 4........
They ignore it because they can't face it and still hold to Calvinism. Sort of like those who cling to darkness.
MB
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
:wavey::applause::applause::thumbsup:
MB has some made some remarkable comments through the years which gives a fair indication of where he is coming from.
"All men have been chosen for salvation even though not all men will be saved." (1/3/2012)
"It is nonsense to believe we were chosen before we existed." (12/5/2011)
"Not everyone is elect when they are saved." (2/1/2010)
"God draws man convinces man as long as man doesn't choose to rebel." (12/8/2008)
Is that so? The old make it up as you go kind of baptist.......interesting. When someone is taught by professed teachers that it is okay to only use half verses such as
God is not willing that any perish.......they then feel that they can say anything at all and just trash the word of God....sort of like those Jesus spoke to and said.....my word has no place in you.
Ahhhh, wow, why would you even attempt to bring that guy into a Calvinistic sponsored hermeneutics class....I mean he is already hostile to anything even remotely Calvinistic. It would be similar to a RC Theologian attempting to have you involved in their own brand. Just spells out disaster from the onset.
PreachTony
Active Member
Just curious, Icon, but what do you define as a "whole verse," Seeing as Bible verses were not even really instituted until the 1200s?
All you did was redefine the verses with your presuppositions that men cannot repent without an irresistible call and that Christ only died for the elect.
So you'd rather us to suppose that you are ignorant of scripture all together.
MB
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Oh come on (kicks the can opener forward) :smilewinkgrin:
PreachTony
I do not care if you read 2pet as one big run on sentence ....you see who the subject is .....To usward.......Peter contrasts elect believers with the scoffers.
If you cannot see it...should you be teaching anyone?
3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you;
in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward,
not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
I do not care if you read 2pet as one big run on sentence ....you see who the subject is .....To usward.......Peter contrasts elect believers with the scoffers.
If you cannot see it...should you be teaching anyone?
3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you;
in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward,
not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
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Your "mountain of verses' had almost nothing to do with the topic to begin with...Used out of context would be kind.....these became a mountain of error ..so much so that you do not understand the verses at all.:wavey:
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