Even if so, the question remains. Did God hate them before their fall, or begin hating them after they sinned.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Objections to Calvinism
- Thread starter Jordan Kurecki
- Start date
- Status
Even if so, the question remains. Did God hate them before their fall, or begin hating them after they sinned.
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
I was expecting the "all does not mean all" Calvinist card to be played. But maybe some other explanation can be drummed up.
This is the clutch Calvinism leads one into. Even though God says "come, let us reason together" Calvinist say "No, No, No, No!!!!!! There shall be no reasoning, there shall be no persuading, there shall be no decision making!"
God is placed in the mold of Calvinism, where He has no freedom to change His mind, no freedom to be persuaded, no freedom to have a back and forth relationship with His creatures, no freedom to give His subjects a freewill choice between two allowable options!
God Himself becomes a Calvinist in the Calvinist model. I find this quite sad. Just another programmed robot.
Con1
I see where the elect are the objects of God's love as restored Image bearers. I DO not recall any verses speaking of God loving angelic beings.
They were not image bearers as Hebrews 2 explains.
while some make an idol of free will instead of learning from scripture or the confession of faith about the Holy attributes of God, and others remain ignorant because of the same lack of basic bible knowledge...
Others also ignore the Catechisms and confessions and instead base their comments on their discussions at the local pub..
Both kinds of persons absent themselves from the means of grace God has given us.....so where does that leave them?.......yes...they offer nothing constructive...just sit in the peanut gallery making unlearned comments and attacking the truth...suggesting a God who changes and has emotional mood swings like a natural man would
God loves His elect as explained in Romans 5......while we were YET sinners...Christ loved the elect sinner.....who was
I believe they worship God and we are told they minister to those who are heirs of salvation.
More entries from the Calvinist Dictionary:
Free Will: Something that can’t exist because it would make God helpless if true.
Free Will (2): Something you receive after God determines you should have it.
Sovereignty: meticulous micromanagement
Con1
I see where the elect are the objects of God's love as restored Image bearers. I DO not recall any verses speaking of God loving angelic beings.
They were not image bearers as Hebrews 2 explains.
while some make an idol of free will instead of learning from scripture or the confession of faith about the Holy attributes of God, and others remain ignorant because of the same lack of basic bible knowledge...
Others also ignore the Catechisms and confessions and instead base their comments on their discussions at the local pub..
Both kinds of persons absent themselves from the means of grace God has given us.....so where does that leave them?.......yes...they offer nothing constructive...just sit in the peanut gallery making unlearned comments and attacking the truth...suggesting a God who changes and has emotional mood swings like a natural man
I believe they worship God and we are told they minister to those who are heirs of salvation.
Ah, the ole straw man card. Did anyone say anything about "mood swings like a natural man"?? But of course you have no answer to the hate question so you must erect a straw man and say something. Feel better now?
How about a God who has emotions and reasons, even pleads with His creation? How about a God who Loves and Hates, would that be a God with emotions?
Con 1...part of post 104....got cut off dealing with rom5.....God has an everlasting love for us...a redemptive love.He knows our frame. That is from the Divine side which some here ridicule.
Paul speaks of.....much more...being reconciled......at a point in time we have a new relationship with God
we go from a child of wrath to a son.
There is never a time where God does not hate sin.that is why He disciplines His children so we are partakers of His holiness....so we are not destroyed with the world..heb12
Paul speaks of.....much more...being reconciled......at a point in time we have a new relationship with God
we go from a child of wrath to a son.
There is never a time where God does not hate sin.that is why He disciplines His children so we are partakers of His holiness....so we are not destroyed with the world..heb12
Yes....you and steaver evidently are speaking of a god of your imagination.
The bible God is immutable.....He is not free to sin....or have Human emotions..
both of you sound like the man at the last 5 verses os psalm 50......
To sugge st that the Biblical God would need to change His mind....is horrendous
Icon, why don't you just stick with answering his question. You are going off on a tangent........Did God hate you before you got saved? Or did you never commit iniquity?
Just answer the question Icon, did God hate you when you were committing iniquity or not?
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
You are right Icon, scripture does not speak of love from God to Angels. I was assuming in my post.
Scripture doesn't speak about TULIP either, maybe alot of assuming there also.
So God does not love the angels, does this then mean God hates the angels? I guess if God does not love the angels, nor hates the angels, then God must be indifferent towards the angels. And I suppose He does not love all the animals He created, nor the flowers, or trees, nor the whole earth or universe either.
No, God is Love, but only partially.
"Men love eating wings while watching tv rather than working out because they are lazy."
What part of that sentence would logically lead to anyone believing that men are unable to work out? Yet that is how you use it concerning Scripture, a doctrine of illogical nonsense.
Translation: If I answer this the way I have been teaching doctrine it will completely unravel everything I have said.
Answer the man's question. Did God love you while you worked iniquity, yes or no. Quite simple...come back to the baby pool!
convicted1
Guest
To Brothers Steaver, webdog, et al...
Jeremiah 31:3
The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Jeremiah 31:3
The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Webdog
Hello WD.
Steaver does not really want an answer. He just wants to object to anything posted:thumbs:
But since you asked I will respond to your post:thumbs:
I do not see it as a yes no question.
I see this as this;
We have a clear declaration in scripture;
God hates all the workers of iniquity....a true statement.
Yet in love God saves a multitude of sinners In Christ....also a true statement.
I see it this way-
Jesus entered into His mediatorial role prior to the creation of the world, or creation could not have taken place.
God saw all mankind as fallen and dead in Adam...and condemned.
hence God hates all the workers of iniquity:thumbs:
In love The Father gives a multitude of such sinners to the Son...even considered as fallen and yet sinners deserving if His Divine wrath.....
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
While Jesus was already given as our mediator and Surety....all the events have to unfold in the fullness of time.
This is where the recent disagreement with the hypercal PB's was about.
We are conceived in Sin, and go about speaking lies from the womb.we are children of wrath and disobedience ...even as others eph2:1-4...But God- so to this question...God does hate all the workers of iniquity.....But In Christ he sees them for he has predestined them to become...conformed to the Image of The Son.
They no longer live in the practice of sin...1jn 3:8....but instead are called to law keeping holiness in every aspect of their lives.
They can no longer be characterized as workers of iniquity, but now they are saints , growing in grace as The blood of the cross has become their propitiation.....anywhere they are found in the world.
the wrath of God is revealed from heaven still...all not under the covering and propitiation of our Great High Priest, Surety, and Mediator..remain under the wrath.
So I do not see it as a simple yes/no....:thumbs:
Hello WD.
Steaver does not really want an answer. He just wants to object to anything posted:thumbs:
But since you asked I will respond to your post:thumbs:
I do not see it as a yes no question.
I see this as this;
We have a clear declaration in scripture;
God hates all the workers of iniquity....a true statement.
Yet in love God saves a multitude of sinners In Christ....also a true statement.
I see it this way-
Jesus entered into His mediatorial role prior to the creation of the world, or creation could not have taken place.
God saw all mankind as fallen and dead in Adam...and condemned.
hence God hates all the workers of iniquity:thumbs:
In love The Father gives a multitude of such sinners to the Son...even considered as fallen and yet sinners deserving if His Divine wrath.....
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
While Jesus was already given as our mediator and Surety....all the events have to unfold in the fullness of time.
This is where the recent disagreement with the hypercal PB's was about.
We are conceived in Sin, and go about speaking lies from the womb.we are children of wrath and disobedience ...even as others eph2:1-4...But God- so to this question...God does hate all the workers of iniquity.....But In Christ he sees them for he has predestined them to become...conformed to the Image of The Son.
They no longer live in the practice of sin...1jn 3:8....but instead are called to law keeping holiness in every aspect of their lives.
They can no longer be characterized as workers of iniquity, but now they are saints , growing in grace as The blood of the cross has become their propitiation.....anywhere they are found in the world.
the wrath of God is revealed from heaven still...all not under the covering and propitiation of our Great High Priest, Surety, and Mediator..remain under the wrath.
So I do not see it as a simple yes/no....:thumbs:
webdog
Agreed:thumbsup:
If you were here in the truckstop...you would see the truth of the statement:laugh:
I do not agree in that scripture has many such statements about mans depravity;
God is not responsible for mans sin .
we are told in Scripture that men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil it's the love of sin that sinners have that keeps them from repenting and believing in the gospel .
here are others that you might not have looked at recently;
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually
what has changed with natural man? if not for God's common grace and longsuffering it would even be more unstable than it is in this world.
11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
I see a pattern here:laugh:
."
Agreed:thumbsup:
If you were here in the truckstop...you would see the truth of the statement:laugh:
I do not agree in that scripture has many such statements about mans depravity;
God is not responsible for mans sin .
we are told in Scripture that men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil it's the love of sin that sinners have that keeps them from repenting and believing in the gospel .
here are others that you might not have looked at recently;
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually
what has changed with natural man? if not for God's common grace and longsuffering it would even be more unstable than it is in this world.
11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
I see a pattern here:laugh:
steaver
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
I was expecting the "all does not mean all" Calvinist card to be played. But maybe some other explanation can be drummed up.[/QUOTE]
This sarcastic response is why you make no progress. you are not looking for any answers...you speak of an answer being "drummed up" as if it has not crossed your mind that many have supplied the answers already...You just reject truth at all costs is what comes across.
Steaver...your turn..explain how God then...loves Satan in your theology...
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
I was expecting the "all does not mean all" Calvinist card to be played. But maybe some other explanation can be drummed up.[/QUOTE]
This sarcastic response is why you make no progress. you are not looking for any answers...you speak of an answer being "drummed up" as if it has not crossed your mind that many have supplied the answers already...You just reject truth at all costs is what comes across.
Steaver...your turn..explain how God then...loves Satan in your theology...
Last edited by a moderator:
:thumbsup::wavey::thumbs::applause:
- Status