OK... I still have these nagging questions:

[skypair]

Matthew 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jesus is speaking to the twelve:

Sorry James, I thought I remembered the passage. You are right -- Christ was commissioning the disciples to spread "the gospel of the kingdom." That is key! The gospel of the kingdom would be preached 2 times and Jesus refers to both of them here: 1) before He was to enter Jerusalem and offer Himself as King of the 'kingdom," and 2) before He will come back from heaven to take the "kingdom."

Notice of one He says you shall not have gone to all the cities of Israel before it happens and of the other He says they shall persecute you and some die. See, Had Israel received Him, these events would have occurred within the next 7 years --- and Israel had not rejected His kingdom yet (which is MT 12).

So with that as context, first off everone was going to "sheaol" prior to the cross, agreed? So yeah, a believer would go there to Abraham's bosom and the disciples would have understood that, without the Sacrifice, they would go to the bad part. Don't fear your persecuting, martyring "judges," fear your "Judge!"

and the temple in 1cor 3 is the church.

Just because some here have acceded foolishly to your formulation here does not make it so. The Foundation of your faith is Christ. You better be careful what YOU accept on YOUR foundation. If it causes YOU into defile YOUR temple, God will destroy YOU!

I am of the opinion that at this juncture, Paul was not really "stoked" about what Apollos and Cephas were teaching because in the next chapter he says, "Who's your daddy (in Christ]?"

One thing I feel I must warn y'all ME-ers --- Jesus lived in the old covenant. Most things He says will be oriented toward their expectations including His assertions about His kingdom. A very few assertions after His rejection by Israel refer forward to the church (Mt 16:18, 24:40-41, 25:1-13, much of His last words to His disciples in John 14-17. In fact, though He knew He would be rejected, He still offered Himself as King fulfilling Daniel's 69 weeks and showing that the old covenant was not yet postponed. So when you read Christ's words, be very careful what you take as referring to US.

skypair

 

[lbaker]

As I have pointed out earlier in this thread, not ALL KA believers hold to the understanding to which you are looking for. Personally, I do not KNOW where the unfaithful believer is sent to. I believe it is outer darkness but the jury is still out as to what that means, (for me anyway.)

Okay, well maybe someone who does see it that way can point me to a verse that will prove that.

However; with that being said, I must remind you and others of my brethren in your camp that Paul NEVER taught the Virgin Birth either. So, must we say that that particular truth is for "unbelieving Jews" since it is only taught in the Gospels and the OT? Why not? Whatever your answer may be; you must also remember that it can also apply to KA truth. Was the Virgin Birth ONLY for the unbelieving Jews? Of course not. Then why relegate truths we find in the Gospel teaching KA to "unbelieving Jews"?

Not sure exactly which passages you're talking about here, some of the parables maybe? Most of those were dealing with the unbelieving Jews. Jesus was constantly saying things that angered the Pharisees and Scribes.

Do you now see how it is that we of the KA camp find your camp's constant tirade against the Gospel's teaching of KA as being highly unreasonable and blatantly suspect?

We have given verses plainly illustrating the KA truth as it applies to the JSOC, but your camp wishes to deny it by re-interpreting it to mean something which the plain reading and the context flatly deny.

Sorry, but I don't see it that way. But, if you could show me, in context, a passage that is plainly referring to believers being punished, other than discipline in this life, or even a loss of this life as discipline, I would appreciate it. This passage can be from anywhere in scripture, BTW.

Les

 

[npetreley]

Sorry, but I don't see it that way. But, if you could show me, in context, a passage that is plainly referring to believers being punished, other than discipline in this life, or even a loss of this life as discipline, I would appreciate it. This passage can be from anywhere in scripture, BTW.

Les

I know you're not asking me, but as I've said several times, there is no such scripture. The only way to see ME in the Bible is through innuendo, symbolism, abuse of etymology and parables, all filtered through a cheap ME decoder ring from a cracker-jack box.

 

[lbaker]

I know you're not asking me, but as I've said several times, there is no such scripture. The only way to see ME in the Bible is through innuendo, symbolism, abuse of etymology and parables, all filtered through a cheap ME decoder ring from a cracker-jack box.

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. But, I'm trying to give the ME/KA folks a chance to prove their case, if they can. I'm really dubious about any doctrine that has to run all over the Bible picking up a piece here and a piece there.

Les

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Tell me again SFIC how this is NOT mudslinging. This is clearly and underhanded reference to my brother Hope of Glory in your "HoGwash" comment.

"If ANY man be in Christ he is a new creature. Behold OLD things are passed away, behold ALL things are become new".

Would this passage include your speach to a brother?

You owe him an apology. You can oppose this doctrine without the use of such evil railing upon a brother.

You say it was an underhanded reference to Hope of Glory, yet nowhere in that post did I say Hope of Glory, now did I?

Are you seeing something in Hope of Glory that lines up with what I said in the post?

Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. (Matthew 5:23-24)

 

[Rufus_1611]

You say it was an underhanded reference to Hope of Glory, yet nowhere in that post did I say Hope of Glory, now did I?

Are you seeing something in Hope of Glory that lines up with what I said in the post?

Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. (Matthew 5:23-24)

You normally spell what should be "hogwash" as "HoGwash"? Come on. You insulted Hope of Glory and now you're insulting all of us by thinking we are this dense.

Truth is, your so-called 'KA truth' is HoGwash and not truth at all.

 

[Accountable]

Have you ever been face to face with a false doctrine? Maybe JW's? Buddism? Scientology?

Did you have nothing to say?

I have had plenty to say, but I don't throw mud at them. How will they see Christ in me if all I am doing is talking like a child? Maybe you deal with them by calling them names and saying nanny-nanny-boo-boo but I choose to let God's Word have utterance over childishness.

Since being here in Mexico, I have led a few JW's to the Lord. While in high school I led 2 Mormons to the Lord. I doubt they would have ever listened if I would have called them Jehovah Sicknesses or Morons. There have been many who have left my door mad but it was not because of my tone but because God's Word is sharper than any two edged sword.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Sorry, Rufus...

I did not realize you have the corner on the market for the alphabet and how it is used.

 

[Accountable]

Ya know, I had to take an extended vacation for questioning someone's salvation here on the BB.

Seems now av is questioning mine.

And all because I reveal the truth of a false doctrine.

??????????????? What false doctrine have you "revealed?" I've looked all the way back through this thread and seen nothing. ?????????????????

 

[Rufus_1611]

Sorry, Rufus...

I did not realize you have the corner on the market for the alphabet and how it is used.

That's nice...it's my fault you're being deceptive because I have a corner on the market for the alphabet and how it's used. If I liked psychology I believe I would be calling you a blame-shifter right about now.

Like I said earlier, your lame debate tactics are an improvement on some of the others, so we can just consider it par for the course and move on.

 

[Accountable]

No, I don't. We may hear them uttered as we may judge Israel (or Mt 19:28 may just refer to Jesus disciples though Judaas wouldn't be there).

You are referring to Mt 25:21. Nor will I be "ruler over many things" but "judge angels ... and men."Servants obey the commands of our Lord -- we obey His Spirit, right?

There's an interesting parable in this regard where the servant comes in from the field and expects to be fed by the master. But the master says, "Serve me. Think not that you shall eat when you have only done what you were commanded." To me, this refers to the fact that the OT believers will come into the MK and still have to serve Christ and then afterward they will eat their meal.

skypair

Thank you for your honesty. The point I am trying to make is that I used to hear preachers ll the time at funerals use this term. (I worked in the mortuary business for years as I pastored.) They would talk about the faithfulness of the man or woman and say they have or will hear "Well done, Good and Faithful Servant."
They love to use this verse about this servant but they reject the verses about the slothful servant. I believe a servant is a servant. Don't use one without the other verse.


Concerning Judas not having a throne. What scripture do you use to back this up? Jesus, while speaking to the twelve clearly states they they will sit upon throne with Him. Where and when does Jesus change His mind?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Regardless what you think, Rufus, the bottom line is this...

KA/ME is nothing but HoGwash.

It is HoGwash no matter how HoGwash is spelled.

I did not capitalize the letters as a slander, you (and others took it that way). It is you and others who owe the apology.

 

[Accountable]

Sorry, Rufus...

I did not realize you have the corner on the market for the alphabet and how it is used.

Unreal.:tear:

 

[Rufus_1611]

Regardless what you think, Rufus, the bottom line is this...

KA/ME is nothing but HoGwash.

It is HoGwash no matter how HoGwash is spelled.

I did not capitalize the letters as a slander, you (and others took it that way). It is you and others who owe the apology.

WhAtEvEr YoU sAy. I hAvE nO fUrThEr CoMmEnT oN tHiS mAtTeR.

 

[Accountable]

Regardless what you think, Rufus, the bottom line is this...

KA/ME is nothing but HoGwash.

It is HoGwash no matter how HoGwash is spelled.

I did not capitalize the letters as a slander, you (and others took it that way). It is you and others who owe the apology.

?????????????????? Again you leave me with nothing but questions. ???????????

Have I missed something? I don't remember Rufus calling anyone hear a name or slandering them.
If, as you say, you did not mean it the way it came across, , why not apologize for the miscapitalizations and go on instead of swimming in the mud?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I never said I miscapitalized. Nor did I say the caps were meant for slander.

 

[lbaker]

Just for the record, please note that I don't hold with any name calling or accusations against other believers. We can carry on a spirited and pointed discussion without resorting to that kind of junk.

Les

 

[standingfirminChrist]

For the record, I did not resort to any name calling.

But their doctine is HoGwash.

They have been brainwashed to believe a man-made doctrine that takes away from the sufficiency of the blood of Jesus Christ.


They have the Child of God going to hell to appease the wrath of God while the Word of God clearly states that God's people are not appointed to wrath.

God has not given us a spirit of fear, yet they try to make us fear the fires of hell. Their teachings are what I call 'clothesline preaching'. You have to walk in their backyard or you will be hung out to dry.

 

[Accountable]

Just for the record, please note that I don't hold with any name calling or accusations against other believers. We can carry on a spirited and pointed discussion without resorting to that kind of junk.

Les

Thank you for your sincere politeness. Though we may not agree, we should be able to have debate with dignity. We can have fun too but we must know where to draw the line.

 

[Accountable]

For the record, I did not resort to any name calling.

But their doctine is HoGwash.

They have been brainwashed to believe a man-made doctrine that takes away from the sufficiency of the blood of Jesus Christ.

The blood of Christ is MORE than sufficient for me. Being born from above is totally on the merit of Christ's shed blood at Calvary. I have not, nor could I ever obtain eternal life, which is the gift of God in any other way. The moment the conviction of the Holy Ghost came upon me and I believe the Gospel of Grace, I became born from above, and my spirit was given life. End of story for how I became saved.
How does this differ from your story?
Now that I am saved, I am in a race. If you, or others, choose not to run, tis your choice. If you choose to run this race, there is a prize. I choose to run the race and finish my course that Christ might say "well done." I love Him enough to run this race with patience. I seek the prize. I desire for my Lord not to be ashamed of me because I didn't run. I guess I've been brainwashed!