Once saved always saved

Peter denied Christ three times. He was still a child of God and not thrown out of the Kingdom...

Does the Bible and the words "eternal life" mean one thing for Peter and another for the rest of us?

 

And each of those denials was dealt with. Peter's sincere confession was, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus knew Peter's heart even though Peter's mouth said, "I don't know Him."

John 21:15-17
15 So when they had finished breakfast, Jesus *said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?” He *said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He *said to him, “Tend My lambs.”
16 He *said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” He *said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He *said to him, “Shepherd My sheep.”
17 He *said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus *said to him, “Tend My sheep.

No, but God's purposes for Peter's life were yet unfulfilled.

Luke 22:31-34
31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat;
32 but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”
33 But he said to Him, “Lord, with You I am ready to go both to prison and to death!”
34 And He said, “I say to you, Peter, the rooster will not crow today until you have denied three times that you know Me.”

Peter's faith faltered but did not fail. It is obvious that there was a turning away or Jesus wouldn't have said, " and you, when once you have turned again". Turned again? Isn't that repentance? God's purposes for Peter are evident in Acts. Peter's significant work is foretold by the Lord in saying, " and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”

 

And Jesus knows my heart too, regardless of what my mouth says.

We waste too much time worrying about whether other people are 'truly' saved instead of winning more souls to Christ...

 

Amen!

Which would explain my pithy reply to our beloved steaver about cutting to the chase.

blessing, blessed 16

"We have no greater task than to make disciples of Jesus Christ." - Wesley

 

test...I'm having trouble posting

 

Steaver writes:

No, Steaver. The point is that if he were speaking to false converts he would not say about the unregenerate what is said in Hebrews 10 or in Hebrews 6. You did not address what Padredurand pointed out about Hebrews 6, nor what I pointed out about Hebrews 10. The language of those two passages cannot be sidestepped so easily.

I wrote regarding chapter 10:

You continue:

You have given generalities, such as them being false converts; you have not, however, addressed the evidence from the texts that compels me to hold the opposite position. Do you believe a false convert, for example, has been sanctified by the blood of the covenant? I don’t see your view as a viable option. I'll present more evidence soon, perhaps tomorrow.

Blessings,

Bob

 

Steaver,

You ask:

1 Thess 5:23-24 reads:

On the surface, I can see why you would appeal to this passage. Paul closes this epistle with an expression of his desire for God's gracious activity in them. He furthermore expresses confidence that God will bring it to pass. He is faithful. He works in us what we are unable to perform in our own strength. We can trust in God and in His power to transform us.

What you assume, however, is that we do not need to have faithfulness ourselves. Paul, in closing his epistle with a blessing, if you will, focuses only on God's gracious activity. Elsewhere, he speaks similarly about God's activity, but includes a condition of faithfulness on our part.

To contend that all who have been reconciled through the death of Jesus inevitably persevere reduces verse 23 to meaninglessness. God is always faithful, but man is not always faithful. God does not leave us; but some leave God. We must "continue in the faith".

Rather than rush in answering your final question, I will leave it for another time...tomorrow, or perhaps later today, Lord willing.

Blessings,

Bob

 

I don't know Packer, don't know MacArthur, the only thing I know about Calvin is that he believed there was no choice in being saved, don't know Armin, heard of Wesley but never read anything by him.

And I still don't know what your answers are to my questions

God Bless!

 

Why do you think these texts are germane to the topic?

 

The verses implying falling away are numerous. Paul's main theme is to run the race and endure to the end! If once you are saved and nothing could EVER change that, then why did he bother to spend so much time trying to drive home this important message of running this race; enduring; keep fighting and battling to the end?

Hebrews speaks clearly of people(SAVED) falling away from this state(Heb.6:4-6).

James speaks of "brothers" wandering away from the faith and unless someone turns them they face death(Jam.5:19).

Peter addressing the church explains that they should be on guard "so you may not be carried away by the errors of lawless men and fall from your secure position(2 Pet.3:17)(see also Rom.11:22,23; Gal.4:9). Fall from your SECURE position! What more needs to be argued here?

Sure, our Lord says that no one can snatch them out of His hand, and this is true! No one can force them to turn away and leave the security of our Lord. Their family members can not force them, nor their best friends. Not even Satan himself can cause them to do anything against THEIR will. The "Devil made me do it" saying is SO untrue! YOU made you do it. No one snatches anyone from the Lord's hand -- they leap out on their own!!! They just want to blame it on the Devil.

I am in my Lord's hands because I choose to be there, and I choose to stay there! This kind of language is found throughout the Bible. Run the race and ENDURE to the END! Don't believe the falsehood that since you started the race strong then had a tire blow out(obsticle of sin flexing its ugly muscle in your life again), so you pull off to the side or to the pitts, and believe in your mind that you really don't need to finish the race anyway to receive the prize, because why waste the energy anyway! This is what the "once saved always saved" mind set can do for you. It forces complacency and laziness! Fight that fight to the end. It doesn't matter how fast or how strong you are --just keep fighting to the end, because Evil hides around every corner, waiting to steal your prize, your victory.

I don't care if I come in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd! I am just going to keep fighting until the last bell(or trumpet). Those who believe the fight is won already by just believing and no further concern is warranted, is no better off than the one who only sits on the sidelines claiming that every good play that an athlete performs is something he can do, yet never ever even attempts to back up such a claim! For you can not win or even finish the race unless you run it to the finish line!

 

Then my apologies. I will make sure I do to everyone's satisfaction.

Here is what I replied before and is why I said that I already gave answer concerning the passage......

I stated that I believe it is a hypothetical stituation given by the writer. Here is a commentary which I have read that expresses what I believe Hebrews chapters 6&10 are saying. He can say it more clearly than I.....

""... seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh ." The author's thought is that once they have experienced all that Christ has to offer and then deliberately turn back, they are as those who first crucified Christ. By their rejection of Christ's ministry on their behalf, they put him to an open shame. The last two participles use the present tense (the first five are aorist) , expressing a continuous act, so that they keep on crucifying Christ and exposing Him to shame. Anyone who would do such things can never be brought to repentance, for there is no other gospel. There is no other Savior. Since this epistle makes it clear that Christ can only be crucified once, this situation must be viewed hypothetically. The writer's argument is that " if " one could " fall away ", he would, thereby, " crucify afresh " his
Lord. Since that cannot happen (for Christ died once for all sin) , then the fallin away could not be renewed to faith and repentance. Such is never the case, for Christ is always available to the repentant sinner.

" We are persuaded better things of you ." Following this severe warning, the author consoles his readers with his confidence concerning them. He was not speaking about them; he does not even suggest that he was speaking of some of them who were merely professing Christians. He is persuaded that his readers possess better qualities and " things that accompany salvation" , or literally " things having salvation " (Gr echomena ) . This warning was hypothetical, showing the awesomeness of apostasy if one could actually renounce Christ after being born again. The fourth warning (ch 10) demonstrates the hypothetical nature of these things more clearly than chapter 6 does. In chapter 10 the author includes himself within the warning (10:26) and further states that niether he nor his readers were on the road to apostasy (10:39) . He pronounces the fearful punishment upon one who would trample the Son of God under foot and would count the blood by which he was sanctified as unholy. He is discribing what would happen to him and to them, not what has happened to anyone.

I believe this is a very plausible interpretation. It absolutely cannot be a warning against losing salvation because something eternal can never cease to exist. If you believe that it is a warning of losing salvation after having salvation, then I again ask you to explain how " never thirst again" " everlasting life" " eternal " means something different than what it means for " Eternal God".

Here are some examples....please address them and explain that they don't mean what they apparantly say...

"The eternal God is thy refuge" (Deut 33:27)

"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life". (John 4:14)

"We know that we have passed from death unto life , because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him". (1 John 3:14-15)

" And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son". (1 John 5:11)

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life , and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13)

" but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us ." (Heb 9:12)

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Heb 5:9)

Ask yourself, Do you have eternal life or some other kind of life? Do you have eternal salvation or some other kind of salvation? Have you been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb that is eternal redemption or some other kind of redemption?

I pray I explained my position clearly on Hebrews 6&10. I gave an alternative explanation of the passages to yours. I believe you can see it is a plausible one even if you decide it is a wrong one. Now can you give me a plausible alternative view to the scriptures I have put forth? I believe eternal means never ending, never ceasing. What do you believe the plausible alternative to my view would be? Please! Explain to me what I am missing here! Doesn't eternal mean eternal?!?

God Bless!

 

Hi esch...

Your are confusing "working out your salvation" with "having your salvation".

You said.... "and believe in your mind that you really don't need to finish the race anyway to receive the prize".

Do you have eternal life now, or is it something you are working towards?

God Bless!

 

What is eternal is not the question here. Man affects neither His promises nor His attributes. If a man abandons his faith and "tramples under foot the Son of God; God is unchanged, the Cross still atones, Jesus is still seated at the right hand, He still sanctifies, and eternity is unchanged except for the one who has fallen away. Let me restate that for clarification... except for the one who consciously, cognitively, and with all heart and sincerity says, "I recant and disavow my confession."


steaver wrote: Here are some examples....please address them and explain that they don't mean what they apparantly say...

"The eternal God is thy refuge" (Deut 33:27)

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"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life". (John 4:14)

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• nobody said anything to the contrary</font>

"We know that we have passed from death unto life , because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him". (1 John 3:14-15)

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• nobody said anything to the contrary</font>

" And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son". (1 John 5:11)

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• nobody said anything to the contrary</font>

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life , and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13)

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• nobody said anything to the contrary</font>

" but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us ." (Heb 9:12)

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• nobody said anything to the contrary</font>

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Heb 5:9)

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I don't see where any of the posters stated or implied that eternal had variable meanings or that God was in any way variable.

You seem to be questioning the "Once Saved" more than the "Always Saved". Do you believe that anyone who has fallen or bolted away was never saved in the first place?

 

Eternal life is something directly connected with salvation. If you have no salvation you do not possess eternal life.

 

Citation please!

 

It is my question. Can you not answer? Why not? Is it confusing?

Never said anyone did. Can you answer my questions or not?

They didn't. But it seems if you believe something eternal can cease to exist, then you must be thinking eternal has multiple meanings. Why don't you just answer my questions? It would take less time then trying to dodge them!

God Bless!

 

AMEN!

 

James Freerkson, Th.D.
Professor of Biblical Studies, Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary B.A., Pillsbury Baptist College; M.Div., Th.M., Central Baptist Theological Seminary; Th.D., Grace Theological Seminary.

God Bless!

 

I have. Let me put into a few words what I have already put into many. ETERNAL IS ETERNAL IS ETERNAL! If John Doe makes a shipwreck of his faith eternal is still eternal, just not for him.

You perceived incorrectly.

Now answer two of mine:

Do you have a citation for your commentary?

Do you believe that anyone who has fallen or bolted away was never saved in the first place?

 

I believe a true Christian cannot fall away unto perdition.

I believe there are those who tagged along but never were born again. These were thought to be Christians but proved out they were not... " They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us ." (1 John 2:19)

I continue to answer your question even though you refuse to answer mine.

God Bless!