Once saved always saved

[kjv34]

I'm Independent Baptist and yes we believe Saved Once Saved Always, there is so many scripture that backs it John 3:15 and 3:16 for 2, other
verses that tell us he will in no wise cast out, sealed unto the day of redemption, the only Baptist that I know that believe you can loose your salvation is the Free Qill Baptit and they aew divided on it

 

[TP]

Greetings,

When I speak of Hope, it is hope in the promise of Christ and Grace he has given to me. It is a hope because he has filled me with his holy Spirit, and made me a temple of God where I can cry out 'abba, father'. It is a hope that comes from being Re-created in the order of grace, through Jesus Christ our Lord. This is what I mean when I say HOPE.

peace

 

[steaver]

When I speak of Hope, it is hope in the promise of Christ and Grace he has given to me. It is a hope because he has filled me with his holy Spirit, and made me a temple of God where I can cry out 'abba, father'. It is a hope that comes from being Re-created in the order of grace, through Jesus Christ our Lord. This is what I mean when I say HOPE.

Amen TP!

Now what about 1 John telling us we can know we have eternal life?

God Bless!

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

TP: Have you ever been down the Roman's Road?

Please take a minute to go there. The wording is the same in your Bible as it is in mine. The trip is well worth it!

Romans 3:10
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

Romans 5:12
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for all have sinned."

Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ, our Lord." (Italics mine)

Romans 5:8
"But God commandeth his love toward us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 10:9-13
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek; for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Matthew 10:32
"Whosoever, therefore, shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father, who is in heaven."

Blessings,
§ue

 

[grace56]

TP I love your teachings. In your bio you state you are a Catholic Priest, if you are a parish Priest your parishinors are very lucky to have you. I am now a Catholic convert and I am in awe of what the church teaches and how scriptual she really is.


grace56

 

[steaver]

Hi grace56,

This thread is about OSAS and I would like to know if you have eternal life as 1 John declares you can know?

As for how scripturally correct "she" is, I'll let that for another thread. I'm sure if you stay around here you will get quite an eye opening!

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ, our Lord." (Italics mine)

Thanks for the post Sue. Some Christians believe that God's eternal life cannot cease to exist (hence the word eternal) yet a Christians eternal life can.

God Bless!

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Eternal = forever PERIOD!

 

[padredurand]

Some Christians believe that God's eternal life cannot cease to exist (hence the word eternal) yet a Christians eternal life can.

Steaver, isn't that what Paul says to Timothy in this text?

2 Timothy 2:11-13
11 It is a trustworthy statement:
For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Please understand I do not believe God arbitrarily says, "I caught John/Jane Doe in the movie theater; therefore I withdraw their salvation." or "Brother Doe missed church 5 weeks in a row, or coveted, or (fill in the blank); they re out of here." I also understand that perseverance is directly tied to irresistible grace and I respect your position, however:

2 Timothy 2:10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory.

Let's not argue the word chosen for that poor word has been beaten to death a thousand times on this board. The writer establishes the context of enduring or persevering. He says he endured or suffered so that others could obtain salvation.

Then his trustworthy statement:
</font>

• For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him</font>

Amen!

</font>

• If we endure, we will also reign with Him</font>

Endure Strongs 5278 to stay under (behind), that is, remain; figuratively to undergo, that is, bear (trials), have fortitude, persevere: - abide, endure, (take) patient (-ly), suffer, tarry behind.

That's the same word Paul used in verse 10. He says, "I have remained, bore trials, had fortitude and persevered, abided, endured suffered for the chosen.

</font>

• If we deny Him, He also will deny us</font>

Blessed 16, how'd Matthew get on the Roman road? You quoted Matt 10:32. You have to include the next verse as well, Matthew 10:33 “But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."

How do they deny Him? They do not remain or bear trials, they do not have fortitude nor persevere, abide or endure suffering.

You would say that those that deny Him after their "conversion" were never saved in the first place. I say they counted the cost of discipleship and determined it was too high.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Matthew 10:33 “But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."

deny:
1)to contradict or declare untrue
2)to declare as untrue
3)to refuse to acknowledge or recognize
4)to refuse to grant: withhold

This has nothing to do with "bearing trials, having fortitude, perservering, abiding, or enduring suffering".

It has to do with denying that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and accepting Him as personal Lord and Savior.

My earthly father will always be my earthly father - no matter what I do, nothing can change that.

My Heavenly Father will always be my Heavenly Father - no matter what I do, nothing can change that.

Once saved - always saved.
Once a father - always a father.
Once a son - always a son.

 

[Armando]

A quick point in reference. If OSAS is true, what would it be the proper interpretation of the following verses:

Phil 3,12 -Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus

Phil 2,12 - Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

1 Cor 9,27 -But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway

Rom 8,24 -For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope:for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Seems to me that Paul was not very sure of his salvation.

Thanks
Armando

 

[steaver]

A quick point in reference. If OSAS is true, what would it be the proper interpretation of the following verses:

Phil 3,12 -Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus

Phil 2,12 - Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

1 Cor 9,27 -But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway

Rom 8,24 -For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope:for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Seems to me that Paul was not very sure of his salvation.

Glad your here Armando!

Would love to comment on these passages, but I am waiting response to the passages I have put forth first. I gave what I believed to be a plausible interpretation of Hebrews 6. One of which has support by many commentarians. And now it is my turn. After we discuss the following passages, then we can get to yours. Feel free to add your thoughts on them. I am still waiting for some of the others to respond.

Here they are...

Can you give me a viable option to the scripture I quoted from 1 Thess 5:23-24 where it claims what Jesus " will do ", that is sanctify wholly and preserve blameless?

Here is another one, please explain to me that it could mean something other than what it appears to say....

"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst ; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life ." (John 4:14)

I see " never thirst " and " shall be everlasting life ".

Now explain how something everlasting can cease to exist!

Also, I am asking everyone if they have eternal life. 1 John tells us we can know. Do you?

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

Steaver, isn't that what Paul says to Timothy in this text?

Hi padredurand,

I still cannot figure out your position. It seems to be that you believe both ways

Maybe you can answer my questions above.

God Bless!

 

[padredurand]

I still cannot figure out your position. It seems to be that you believe both ways Maybe you can answer my questions above.

I ran out of time this AM. Pesky little thing like work, etc. Anyway, what I wanted to get to was verse 11

2 Tim 2:11 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

There are three things I get from this passage:

First, that God is always faithful. I don't doubt this in any way, shape or form.

Second, He cannot deny himself. This, I believe is a quality of His faithfulness. "For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; if we endure, we will also reign with Him". That statement is consistent with His promises.

Third, man has the ability to be faithless. "If we deny Him, He also will deny us". That too is consistent with His promises.

This has nothing to do with "bearing trials, having fortitude, perservering, abiding, or enduring suffering".

Not in Matthew, but Paul is talking about his endurance on behalf of the chosen and the hope of all who follow His example. So here it has every thing to do with enduring. If we die with Him (that's both figurative and literal in the 1st Century): we live with Him. If we endure: we reign. Deny Him after having embraced Him: He is compelled to be faithful. What does that mean? How could God condemn a man to Heaven? If, with the same sincerity and heart he confessed Jesus is Lord, then denied or recanted his confession; how could God then say, "That's okay. I don't mind." If He did then He would be denying Himself and making a mockery of the Cross.

My position? I don't think anyone loses their salvation arbitrarily e.g.; you smoked a cigarette while waiting in line for a Sunday morning movie skipping church because the dance/card party on Saturday night.....you get the idea. Grace is much bigger than that. But for the man who once believed that now " has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace...";(Hebrews 10:29) what is God to do? Ignore it?

 

[steaver]

But for the man who once believed that now " has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace...";(Hebrews 10:29) what is God to do? Ignore it?

I have already gave my thoughts on Hebrews and I think that what I have concluded is a very plausible interpretation as does many commentarians.

Again, Maybe you can answer my questions above.

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

...";(Hebrews 10:29) what is God to do? Ignore it?

I will add though, God could punish them like Ananias and Sapphira. If a child of His is doing too much damage to themselves or others He could take them home. I'm sure they would also lose greatly at their judgment. And just think of the trembling before Him instead of "well done thy good and faithful servant".

God Bless!

 

[padredurand]

And I offered what I believe to be a plausible understanding of Hebrews 6 also supported by many commentarians. What part of I John would you like to discuss.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Absolutely!

1 John 5:10-12
10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.
11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.


No doubt.

1 John 4:20
20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.


What if we know him as a professing believer?

1 John 2:4
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

How much time must pass between "I have come to know Him" and does not keep His commandments"?

 

[steaver]

Here they are...

Can you give me a viable option to the scripture I quoted from 1 Thess 5:23-24 where it claims what Jesus " will do ", that is sanctify wholly and preserve blameless?

Here is another one, please explain to me that it could mean something other than what it appears to say....

"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst ; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life ." (John 4:14)

I see " never thirst " and " shall be everlasting life ".

Now explain how something everlasting can cease to exist!


God Bless!

 

[steaver]

What if we know him as a professing believer?

You either know Him or you only profess to know Him. It is the born again spirit which makes the difference.

God Bless!

 

[padredurand]

Are you waiting for me to say that he must not have been saved in the first place? You've been fishing for someone to say it for half a dozen posts. Just get it out in the open so we can start talking about Lordship salvation. You'll quote I John 2:19. We'll disagree on Packer and MacArthur and end with the predictable those Calvinist/Arminians are so hammerheaded.

The text from I Thessalonians is an excellent text to discuss the Wesleyan teaching about holiness. We could start another thread on it.