Order of Salvation

[37818]

must . . . exercise your faith in order to be saved.

An unBiblical view of faith. Changing faith into a work. Nevertheless faith Biblically precedes salvation. Now salvation is a gift. And a changed mind is a gift from hearing God's truth. Faith is a result, and that result precedes receiving that gift salvation.

 

[Barry Johnson]

[Ephesians 2:8 NASB] 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God;

faith = πίστεως = female noun
gift = δῶρον = neuter noun

For Paul to have meant that faith is the gift, he would have used the feminine form of the noun "gift".
The translators did not put ..Faith is the gift ... because Paul did not write "Faith is the gift".

Ok so faith is not

That sounds like damnable heresy.

1 John 5:1, ". . . Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . ."

1 John 5:4, ". . . For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. . . ."

Romans 1:4, ". . . declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: . . ."

1 Corinthians 15:3-4, ". . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . ."

The doctrine of Christ and being the Son of God are not mere titles but the identity of whom is being believed. 2 John 1:9.

Did you not see the word ' simply ' . Are you saying people can be saved today by simply believing that Jesus is the Son of God / messiah without believing in the death , burial and resurrection ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Unlike any of you I believe the following is the order of salvation. I also do not believe we apply it to ourselves, by believing it.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:27,28

who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him all cause of salvation age-during,

Good luck on saving yourselves.

How are you a sheep? Are we 'sheep' in the epistles . Does the book of Romans talk about the sheep ? no the ' sheep ' are Jews not Americans in 2020 . So we are not drawn by the Father are we ? do you have a verse that people are drawn by the father after the cross ?

 

[37818]

Did you not see the word ' simply ' . Are you saying people can be saved today by simply believing that Jesus is the Son of God / messiah without believing in the death , burial and resurrection

Yes I saw the word simply. And I disagreed. I agree one is not saved by believing in using a mere label. For sure one isnot saved in believing Jesus is Lord, Matthew 7:21-23. The question becomes what constitues doing the will of God? A gift cannot be earned and remain a gift. And no amount of good deeds can be counted as reeeiving a wage of death (Romans 6:23). Jesus said His yoke was easy, Matthew 11:30.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Unlike any of you I believe the following is the order of salvation. I also do not believe we apply it to ourselves, by believing it.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:27,28

who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him all cause of salvation age-during,

Good luck on saving yourselves.

The other point is that of course Jesus is not the Author of salvation for those that don't believe.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Yes I saw the word simply. And I disagreed. I agree one is not saved by believing in using a mere label. For sure one isnot saved in believing Jesus is Lord, Matthew 7:21-23. The question becomes what constitues doing the will of God? A gift cannot be earned and remain a gift. And no amount of good deeds can be counted as reeeiving a wage of death (Romans 6:23). Jesus said His yoke was easy, Matthew 11:30.

Ok but specifically we are saved by 1 cor 15 . 1-4.

 

[Derf B]

An unBiblical view of faith. Changing faith into a work. Nevertheless faith Biblically precedes salvation. Now salvation is a gift. And a changed mind is a gift from hearing God's truth. Faith is a result, and that result precedes receiving that gift salvation.

Not true. Even salvation-first advocates say if you don’t exercise your faith, you aren’t saved. That’s not changing faith into a work unless you throw out the book of James, ala Martin Luther.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Barry Johnson]

Yes I saw the word simply. And I disagreed. I agree one is not saved by believing in using a mere label. For sure one isnot saved in believing Jesus is Lord, Matthew 7:21-23. The question becomes what constitues doing the will of God? A gift cannot be earned and remain a gift. And no amount of good deeds can be counted as reeeiving a wage of death (Romans 6:23). Jesus said His yoke was easy, Matthew 11:30.

on salvation ? the will of God is to believe on Jesus .

 

[37818]

. . . believing in the death, burial and resurrection?

That is what it means to believe Jesus is the Christ, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; 1 John 5:1; 2 John 1:9.

 

[AustinC]

Does the bible give us the order of salvation or not ? otherwise how have you concluded regeneration preceded faith ?

Well, show me how a dead person can have faith and you may convince me.
Otherwise, I take what God says and I believe it.
By grace you are saved. Whose grace would that be if not the God who makes a person alive with Christ?
Barry, here's something you just cannot wrap your mind around.
You didn't assist God with your salvation. It wasn't a collaborative action. You were dead in your trespasses and sins. But, God made you alive. It's just that simple. By grace you are saved.

 

[MB]

Unlike any of you I believe the following is the order of salvation. I also do not believe we apply it to ourselves, by believing it.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:27,28

who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him all cause of salvation age-during,

Good luck on saving yourselves.

Good luck on your supposing you were saved with out faith.
MB

 

[AustinC]

I never assume something is truth, I check it out before I act



Having the faith to believe in Christ is Having trust in Him if trust can be called exercise.



There is nothing in the Bible that suggest that man is saved before faith. We can't possible trust what we do not know. This scenario is not known in scripture



Correction is the use. Believing falsely is serious business we need to be right.
MB

Huh, God must be wrong when he says "By grace you are saved." In fact, it's said twice, before faith is introduced.
I'm still wondering how a dead in trespasses and sins person somehow conjures up their own faith.

 

[AustinC]

Good luck on your supposing you were saved with out faith.
MB

Good luck imagining your dead in trespasses and sins self conjured up your own faith.

 

[37818]

Not true. Even salvation-first advocates say if you don’t exercise your faith, you aren’t saved. That’s not changing faith into a work unless you throw out the book of James, ala Martin Luther.

They changed faith into a work. Ephesians 2:8-9 explicitly says "not of yourselves." The JW NWT Romans 4:3,". . . Abraham exercised faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”

 

[MB]

Well, show me how a dead person can have faith and you may convince me.
Otherwise, I take what God says and I believe it.
By grace you are saved. Whose grace would that be if not the God who makes a person alive with Christ?
Barry, here's something you just cannot wrap your mind around.
You didn't assist God with your salvation. It wasn't a collaborative action. You were dead in your trespasses and sins. But, God made you alive. It's just that simple. By grace you are saved.

Here we have a man claiming Salvation with out repentance and faith. No belief required.
MB

 

[Barry Johnson]

Not true. Even salvation-first advocates say if you don’t exercise your faith, you aren’t saved. That’s not changing faith into a work unless you throw out the book of James, ala Martin Luther.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, show me how a dead person can have faith and you may convince me.
Otherwise, I take what God says and I believe it.
By grace you are saved. Whose grace would that be if not the God who makes a person alive with Christ?
Barry, here's something you just cannot wrap your mind around.
You didn't assist God with your salvation. It wasn't a collaborative action. You were dead in your trespasses and sins. But, God made you alive. It's just that simple. By grace you are saved.

A dead person is ...erm dead , physically . Not sure what your point was there?
Grace is not a force . This isn't star wars . We are saved by God and not ourselves . Grace as apposed to being saved by works . How could any one ' assist ' the Holy Spirit sealing us until the Adoption ? How can anyone assist in birthing themselves ( born from above ) How can anyone assist God in baptising themselves into the body of Christ ? why do you even think this is possible for a human to do things that the bible says we cannot do ? We are commanded to believe the Gospel and that is all we can do . We are not commanded or told to baptise ourselves into the body of christ . We are not commanded or told to regenerate ourselves or to seal ourselves until the adoption . Why ? because we cannot do this .

 

[MB]

Good luck imagining your dead in trespasses and sins self conjured up your own faith.

Not true I did not conjure anything up. Faith is a matter of being convinced you can trust in Christ.
MB

 

[Derf B]

I never assume something is truth, I check it out before I act



Having the faith to believe in Christ is Having trust in Him if trust can be called exercise.



There is nothing in the Bible that suggest that man is saved before faith. We can't possible trust what we do not know. This scenario is not known in scripture



Correction is the use. Believing falsely is serious business we need to be right.
MB

There is an assumption of truth for anything in the bible. We call that faith (or trust, if you prefer). We hopefully check carefully the evidence presented for the bible's truthfulness so that we don't believe just any old book lying around (like the koran or book of mormon), but it starts with an assumption.

There is something in the bible that suggests man is saved before faith: [Gen 3:21 NKJV] 21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

Nothing before that suggests Adam had exercised any kind of faith. He might have, but it's just not there. And it assumes that the covering of the animals is somehow related to a sacrifice of the animals and therefore a type of Christ shown to Adam and Eve. (I'm not saying I buy it all, but many do.)

 

[Derf B]

The Gospel is the difference . Is believing God only causes belief in only those he has arbitrarily selected before they existed and reprobates the rest to hell or is God pleased to save those that believe? Not cause belief in those he saves. (1 Cor. 1:21; Rom. 10:9-10)

Both sides of the debate would say that the gospel is the difference.

 

[37818]

Ok but specifically we are saved by 1 cor 15 . 1-4.

That is indeed the main part of it. What constitutes believing Jesus is the Christ? 2 John 1:9; 1 John 5:1; Matthew 16:16-17; John 6:44-45. Salvation is a free gift that can only be received as a free gift, 2 Corinthians 4:3.