Featured Order of Salvation

An unBiblical view of faith. Changing faith into a work. Nevertheless faith Biblically precedes salvation. Now salvation is a gift. And a changed mind is a gift from hearing God's truth. Faith is a result, and that result precedes receiving that gift salvation.

 

Ok so faith is not

Did you not see the word ' simply ' . Are you saying people can be saved today by simply believing that Jesus is the Son of God / messiah without believing in the death , burial and resurrection ?

 

How are you a sheep? Are we 'sheep' in the epistles . Does the book of Romans talk about the sheep ? no the ' sheep ' are Jews not Americans in 2020 . So we are not drawn by the Father are we ? do you have a verse that people are drawn by the father after the cross ?

 

Yes I saw the word simply. And I disagreed. I agree one is not saved by believing in using a mere label. For sure one isnot saved in believing Jesus is Lord, Matthew 7:21-23. The question becomes what constitues doing the will of God? A gift cannot be earned and remain a gift. And no amount of good deeds can be counted as reeeiving a wage of death (Romans 6:23). Jesus said His yoke was easy, Matthew 11:30.

 

The other point is that of course Jesus is not the Author of salvation for those that don't believe.

 

Ok but specifically we are saved by 1 cor 15 . 1-4.

 

Not true. Even salvation-first advocates say if you don’t exercise your faith, you aren’t saved. That’s not changing faith into a work unless you throw out the book of James, ala Martin Luther.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

on salvation ? the will of God is to believe on Jesus .

 

That is what it means to believe Jesus is the Christ, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; 1 John 5:1; 2 John 1:9.

 

Well, show me how a dead person can have faith and you may convince me.
Otherwise, I take what God says and I believe it.
By grace you are saved. Whose grace would that be if not the God who makes a person alive with Christ?
Barry, here's something you just cannot wrap your mind around.
You didn't assist God with your salvation. It wasn't a collaborative action. You were dead in your trespasses and sins. But, God made you alive. It's just that simple. By grace you are saved.

 

Huh, God must be wrong when he says "By grace you are saved." In fact, it's said twice, before faith is introduced.
I'm still wondering how a dead in trespasses and sins person somehow conjures up their own faith.

 

Good luck imagining your dead in trespasses and sins self conjured up your own faith.

 

They changed faith into a work. Ephesians 2:8-9 explicitly says "not of yourselves." The JW NWT Romans 4:3,". . . Abraham exercised faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”

 

A dead person is ...erm dead , physically . Not sure what your point was there?
Grace is not a force . This isn't star wars . We are saved by God and not ourselves . Grace as apposed to being saved by works . How could any one ' assist ' the Holy Spirit sealing us until the Adoption ? How can anyone assist in birthing themselves ( born from above ) How can anyone assist God in baptising themselves into the body of Christ ? why do you even think this is possible for a human to do things that the bible says we cannot do ? We are commanded to believe the Gospel and that is all we can do . We are not commanded or told to baptise ourselves into the body of christ . We are not commanded or told to regenerate ourselves or to seal ourselves until the adoption . Why ? because we cannot do this .

 

There is an assumption of truth for anything in the bible. We call that faith (or trust, if you prefer). We hopefully check carefully the evidence presented for the bible's truthfulness so that we don't believe just any old book lying around (like the koran or book of mormon), but it starts with an assumption.

There is something in the bible that suggests man is saved before faith: [Gen 3:21 NKJV] 21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

Nothing before that suggests Adam had exercised any kind of faith. He might have, but it's just not there. And it assumes that the covering of the animals is somehow related to a sacrifice of the animals and therefore a type of Christ shown to Adam and Eve. (I'm not saying I buy it all, but many do.)

 

Both sides of the debate would say that the gospel is the difference.

 

That is indeed the main part of it. What constitutes believing Jesus is the Christ? 2 John 1:9; 1 John 5:1; Matthew 16:16-17; John 6:44-45. Salvation is a free gift that can only be received as a free gift, 2 Corinthians 4:3.