Featured Order of Salvation

Who says they didn't and what does that have to do with US?

 

isnt it obvious? Signs usually point to something

 

Who are "WE"?
Not everyone believes. So I agree that the whole point of Preaching and Teaching and Evangelism and sharing the gospel with our neighbors and Scripture is to help BELIEVERS to 'believe' ... it is like seed scattered on a stony path or pearls cast before swine for the unbelievers.

 

I have ears to hear?

 

Help believers believe? Are you not supposed to be unconditionally elected before you existed ? whats the point if your already saved before you exist ?

 

A good question.

And if it is not a gift from God then how do we understand Ephesians 2 without doing injury to what is written?
I suspect that the ultimate answer comes from the parable of the mustard seed ... but I suck at parables and prophetic imagery.
I have enough trouble putting the pieces together when they talk plain (like when Paul tells me Abraham was not saved by his works and James tells me Abraham was saved by his works). This Christianity isn't for the faint at heart.

 

Yes, they do.

 

I do not believe in Wesleyan theology . Why would it be that man can believe anything but truth ?

 

Could it be that faith is not the gift in ephesians 2 ,8 and 9 as all translations read ? I was genuinely shocked when I first understood how some read ephesians 2 this way .

 

So why does Jesus marvel at their unbelief ?

 

And the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don't know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words. And the Father who knows all hearts knows what the Spirit is saying, for the Spirit pleads for us believers in harmony with God's own will. And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory. [Rom 8:26-30 NLT]

 

There is

I simply cannot accept the NLT . you might as well have quoted the NWT .

 

Well for a start Peter was stood right in front of Jesus were you ?

 

Reader's digest "gift" in the Greek is in the neuter gender (neither male nor female) and in Greek grammar, the gender of "gift" must match the gender of the word it refers to. "grace", "saved" and "faith" are all either male or female. So no one of those words can be the "gift" in the original language. EVERYONE that read the original text would have instantly understood that fact. The only way for a gender neutral "gift" to work in that sentence is for the "gift" to be the whole thing that came before it ... male and female ... "by grace you have been saved through faith" = the whole thing is the "gift" and the whole thing is "not of yourself".

Whatever answer you come up with, if it fails to accept the "gift not of yourself" as the whole "by grace you have been saved through faith", then it is incorrect according to Ephesians 2.

 

I am not responsible for your problems.
The message is the same in every other version, so pick one you like.

 

No, did you stand right in front of Jesus?
And what does THIS question have to do with US?

 

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
If it ( by grace are you saved through faith and not of yourself) really is the Gift, how should have Paul or the translators have put it ? And if Faith is the free gift why did Paul or the translators not write ' Faith is a free gift given to you so that you are able to believe, its not from yourselfs ,lest anyman should boast ?

 

If you truly believe that it reads the same in every other version then I am truly lost for words .

 

Well we are not saved like Peter was . ' by faith and not by sight .