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Order of Salvation

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MB

Well-Known Member
Since we (modern Christians) do not share the Gospel in parables, why is EVERYONE that hears it not a saved believer?

Christ said;
Luk 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
Defined by Christ;
Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved..
In my opinion Satan is at work as well and keeps many from being saved. I know from experience that having God's word in your heart. Will work towards our Salvation. What counts the most is that we continue to help make that seede grow

Jesus also said:
  • "Stop complaining about what I said. For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me ..." [John 6:43-44 NLT]
  • "I have already told you, and you don't believe me. The proof is the work I do in my Father's name. But you don't believe me because you are not my sheep." [John 10:25-26 NLT]
And the Apostles said:
  • "When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit's words to explain spiritual truths. But people who aren't spiritual can't receive these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can't understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means." [1 Corinthians 2:13-14 NLT]
  • "If the Good News we preach is hidden behind a veil, it is hidden only from people who are perishing. Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God." [2 Corinthians 4:3-4 NLT]

So some men are indeed unable to understand, and others are able to understand. The key is to search scripture and be convinced in your heart about what made the difference. I can tell you what I think makes the difference, but I cannot tell you what you should believe. That is a matter between your heart and your Creator.

God Bless.
First of all Christ also said;
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
.Where the Father drew men is the first who followed Christ The disciples. When Christ first started His ministry He wasn't known that anyone would follow Him. Just the disciples at first. But after His ministry Christ drew all men as in Jn 12:32.

I didn't understand why I had to memorize scripture when I was a kid. My parents made me memorize long before I was saved. I thought , at the time, it was just to make my parents happy. Around the age of 14 I began to be interested so I began to study the Bible. I surrendered to Christ soon after this. All I can say is some men learn faster that others. Some will never learn We can never give up on men because we don't know when they may start to believe. This is why we preach the gospel to all.
MB
 

MB

Well-Known Member
described by Calvinist is not possible. Because a measure of faith has been given to every living soul.

Not really. The measure of faith is given to the elect only. He has given to US (believers) the measure of faith NOT all men
This is not scriptural
 

37818

Well-Known Member
In order to believe what one does not already believe, one must first change one's mind or view. Those Greek words are commonly and yes badly translated as repent or repentance. John in his gospel account does not cite Jesus where He was using those terms.
 
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Van

Well-Known Member
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Once again we see Calvinist claiming the "measure of faith" refers to our faith in Christ. Hogwash. The "measure of faith" refers to our area of ministry within the faith (the ministry of Christ.)
 

Marooncat79

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Once again we see Calvinist claiming the "measure of faith" refers to our faith in Christ. Hogwash. The "measure of faith" refers to our area of ministry within the faith (the ministry of Christ.)

Van
That makes absolutely no sense
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Read earlier in the thread man.

Just the measenger here
To which argument?
You are referring mostly to later in the thread which I had not yet replied to.

Typically the word of God teaches faith precedes salvation. That is the issue. Nowhere in the word of God does salvation precede faith.
 
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Van

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Van
That makes absolutely no sense
Nothing makes sense to those feigning blindness.

Once again we see Calvinist claiming the "measure of faith" refers to our faith in Christ. Hogwash. The "measure of faith" refers to our area of ministry within the faith (the ministry of Christ.) Romans 12:3-8
 
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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
The order of Salvation has always been faith first then we are saved. Yet some believe that they are saved first so they can believe. These verses below all state the true order of Salvation. There is no other way mentioned in scripture. Are those who believe they are saved first before they believe denying the real truth?
John 3:16, acts 16:31, Mark 16:16 Luke 7:50, Luke 18:42, Act 2:21 Romans 10;9, Romans 10:13

MB
Another great verse is this one .
2That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
eph 1 .
 
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Barry Johnson

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  • "for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during."
This is correct and it is NOT WHOSOEVER!! this is how the verse actually reads or at least a better reading

Again, you have posted correctly here, but do not understand what you read

It easily means those who are believing in him (and only those who are believing). Emphasis added

Hence John 3:16 actually teaches limited atonement
Did God limit the amount of people who were saved by looking at the bronze serpent in the wilderness ? This is the example Jesus uses for John 3.16 after all . Or did whosever looked at the Serpent lived ?
 
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atpollard

Well-Known Member
First of all Christ also said;
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
.Where the Father drew men is the first who followed Christ The disciples. When Christ first started His ministry He wasn't known that anyone would follow Him. Just the disciples at first. But after His ministry Christ drew all men as in Jn 12:32.
"Faith" is such a big and complicated word. Do we have "faith"? When did it start? How much do we have? How much is enough faith? Can I loose it? Does God give it? Is it really my faith?

"Repent" is easier to understand. We can all remember being on our knees and seeking forgiveness from God. Those moments are burned into our memory like an Ebeneezer [stone of remembrance to mark an important event].

Funny how much we want to know if Faith came before Repentance or after ... as if it would change anything.

Let's talk about "SOMETHING". We will not call it "faith", because it might or might not be "faith" ... but it is "SOMETHING". This SOMETHING comes before we do anything. While Jesus was alive, the Father DREW disciples to Jesus and GAVE 'His sheep' to Jesus. Jesus Himself CHOSE His Apostles to come and follow Him. After the Crucifixion, Jesus says that He will DRAW all men to Himself. (I do not want to debate "everyone without exception" vs "some from every nation" in this topic.) So before or after the Crucifixion, there is a DRAW by God that must logically come before any act on our part. This DRAW is that "SOMETHING" that I want to point out.

We see this SOMETHING at work in Acts.
In Acts 2 we see God DRAW a crowd and begin to do SOMETHING to some of them and not to others ...
  • 12 And they all continued in amazement and great perplexity, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13 But others were mocking and saying, “They are full of sweet wine.”
After this, we see Peter deliver the words from God under the anointing of the Holy Spirit (sorry if my Pentecostal roots are showing) ...
  • 14 But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them:
There can be little doubt to any Christian that the Word of God has power. As Scripture says, God's words do not return void but accomplish their purpose (as an aside, I was always impressed how the same word makes a ready heart more ready and a hard heart even harder). Even here, God seems to have done SOMETHING in their heart during the hearing and before any action on their part. I personally believe that this is the work of the Holy Spirit; to do SOMETHING to DRAW us to Christ ...
  • 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”
Only after God has done His SOMETHING, do we see Peter commanding the people what they must do ...
  • 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.

In Acts 16, SOMETHING happened in the heart of Lydia and in the heart of the Jailer ...
  • 14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. 15 And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.
  • 29 And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house.

What then is the role of this often seen (and personally experienced) SOMETHING that seems to precede the call for us to do anything?
 

MB

Well-Known Member
Another great verse is this one .
2That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
eph 1 .
A-men Barry the Bible is full of verses that say Belief comes before Salvation. Praise God for His truth.
MB
 

Marooncat79

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Not literally everyone but people from all nations and tribes and to
You would have to prove this to me. All men have the ability to believe. You have to deny what scripture says to believe other wise.
MB


I believe that man is at the mercy of God. Meaning- until God does something, man can do nothing
 

Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
Not literally everyone but people from all nations and tribes and to



I believe that man is at the mercy of God. Meaning- until God does something, man can do nothing
Did you believe the Gospel? or did
The order of Salvation has always been faith first then we are saved. Yet some believe that they are saved first so they can believe. These verses below all state the true order of Salvation. There is no other way mentioned in scripture. Are those who believe they are saved first before they believe denying the real truth?
John 3:16, acts 16:31, Mark 16:16 Luke 7:50, Luke 18:42, Act 2:21 Romans 10;9, Romans 10:13

MB
Regeneration preceding faith has to be one of the most radical concepts ever to come out of christianity.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Faith is a result of hearing God's word (John 17:17), as in Romans 10:17. But some resist the Holy Spirit, Acts 7:51, Hebrews 10:29.

Galatians 5:22-23, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Where faith as the fruit is not the faith that precedes salvation.
But only those with the Holy Spirit can hear God's word. The flesh cannot grasp it in truth.
 
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