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canadyjd

Well-Known Member
James death: OK now that you mention it, yes, it does support the death penalty. Herod was the representative of the government and had the technical right (but not the approval of God of course) to execute those whom he declared enemies of the state.
That he was corrupt does enter into the picture of course.
Do you really believe Christians should support the death penalty in areas of the world (Islamic countries, for example) where the death penalty is part of the country's laws and it is a death penalty offense to be a Christian?
But I had meant it to show that "the sword" is not always a figure of speech as you had claimed but is in fact used mostly in the normal sense - an instrument of death.
Well, I didn't say the word "sword" was "always" a figure of speech, only that in Romans 13 it clearly is a reference to authority. This is not something new. Scholars have pointed that out for centuries.
And as such, God approves of the death penalty and in fact He ordained and upholds it.
Just so you are clear on where I stand, I have repeatedly said that Christians should not support the death penalty. That God has allowed the ungodly to bring death and destruction throughout the world, doesn't mean Christians should join in. We are called to be different. Let the ungodly support the death penalty. Let Christians follow the command of Christ and show mercy with perfect patience.

peace to you:praying:
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Do you really believe Christians should support the death penalty in areas of the world (Islamic countries, for example) where the death penalty is part of the country's laws and it is a death penalty offense to be a Christian?
Well, I didn't say the word "sword" was "always" a figure of speech, only that in Romans 13 it clearly is a reference to authority. This is not something new. Scholars have pointed that out for centuries. Just so you are clear on where I stand, I have repeatedly said that Christians should not support the death penalty. That God has allowed the ungodly to bring death and destruction throughout the world, doesn't mean Christians should join in. We are called to be different. Let the ungodly support the death penalty. Let Christians follow the command of Christ and show mercy with perfect patience.

peace to you:praying:

I disagree with your view of Romans 13.

No, I do not support the death penalty of Christians in moslem countries just as I am against the death penalty for moslems in American unless of course in either case they are guilty of murder.

However, if an American goes to another nation he/she goes at their own risk even if it as a missionary. They should have the expectation that they must obey the law of the nation or just not go there.

However, many missionaries have and many have lost their lives for other than blood-guilt because the gospel meant more to them than life itself.

They knew the possibility and went anyway.
The martyr's crown is theirs for eternity.

In America I have the ability to choose who it is that will represent me.
Since there are those who have allowed and do allow the blood-guilty to go free, I don't vote for them.

I would rather have to answer for the blood of the guilty than have the blood of the innocent on the hand that pulled the ballot box switch.

When one allows the wicked to go free to kill and another puts their stamp of approval on that one by voting fot him/her, then IMO the blood-guilt is shared to one degree or another.

HankD
 

freeatlast

New Member
The bottom line is not what I feel, like, or dislike. Personally I do not like the death penality. I get no joy out of it. However God calls for the death penality for certain crimes and that is the position I will continue to support.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
I disagree with your view of Romans 13.
OK.

How about I Tim. 1:16? The Apostle Paul was a murderer by his own admission. He was guilty of the blood of innocents. He specifically states (under inspiration of Holy Spirit) that Jesus Christ showed mercy to him as an example of perfect patience that is to be followed by those who would believe in Jesus Christ in the future.

That means me and you. How can support for the death penalty be consistent with the command to show mercy with perfect patience to the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul? I don't see any way that it can.

I'm not talking about letting people go. I'm not talking about giving them another chance to kill.

I'm talking about obeying the command of our Lord to show mercy with perfect patience, while protecting our communities from predators by putting them into prison for the rest of their lives.
No, I do not support the death penalty of Christians in moslem countries just as I am against the death penalty for moslems in American unless of course in either case they are guilty of murder.
Your argument was that the govenment has the "sword" to punish people with the death penalty. Why not Muslim countries? Our laws to not punish Muslims with the death penalty for being Muslim. It is perfectly "legal" in Muslim countries to put Christians to death for being Christians. It is part of their law.

We know (since we've read the end of the Book) that at some point in the future, all countries will pursue Christians for being Christians, putting them to death. The USA will not be spared.
....I would rather have to answer for the blood of the guilty than have the blood of the innocent on the hand that pulled the ballot box switch....
Brother, we are all guilty and deserve death. How can anyone who appreciates the mercy and grace that God showed to us when we deserved death (but was given life instead), show no mercy to others condemned to die?

Many Christians are now putting into place the death penalty laws that will be used in the future to put other Christians to death. Have you thought that you might have to answer for the blood of innocent Christians that will be put to death under the laws you are now supporting?
In America I have the ability to choose who it is that will represent me.Since there are those who have allowed and do allow the blood-guilty to go free, I don't vote for them.
I don't either. I support life in prison without parole.

peace to you:praying:
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
OK.

How about I Tim. 1:16? The Apostle Paul was a murderer by his own admission. He was guilty of the blood of innocents. He specifically states (under inspiration of Holy Spirit) that Jesus Christ showed mercy to him as an example of perfect patience that is to be followed by those who would believe in Jesus Christ in the future.

That means me and you. How can support for the death penalty be consistent with the command to show mercy with perfect patience to the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul? I don't see any way that it can.

I'm not talking about letting people go. I'm not talking about giving them another chance to kill.

I'm talking about obeying the command of our Lord to show mercy with perfect patience, while protecting our communities from predators by putting them into prison for the rest of their lives.Your argument was that the govenment has the "sword" to punish people with the death penalty. Why not Muslim countries? Our laws to not punish Muslims with the death penalty for being Muslim. It is perfectly "legal" in Muslim countries to put Christians to death for being Christians. It is part of their law.

We know (since we've read the end of the Book) that at some point in the future, all countries will pursue Christians for being Christians, putting them to death. The USA will not be spared.Brother, we are all guilty and deserve death. How can anyone who appreciates the mercy and grace that God showed to us when we deserved death (but was given life instead), show no mercy to others condemned to die?

Many Christians are now putting into place the death penalty laws that will be used in the future to put other Christians to death. Have you thought that you might have to answer for the blood of innocent Christians that will be put to death under the laws you are now supporting? I don't either. I support life in prison without parole.

peace to you:praying:

I agree, if there were a national life sentence of hard labor without possibility of parole then I would not support the death penalty.

A true life sentence is a kind of death penalty.

However that is far from reality in our nation today.

Therefore I support the death penalty for wilfull murder in order to protect the innocent.

The Scripture indicates we are just as subject to the "terror" of the sword as anyone else if we do evil:

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.​

Yes God did show mercy on Paul.​

Paul also said through inspiration that God would have mercy on whom He would have mercy.​

And that is just the point as he warns us in Romans 13:4. If you do evil be afraid of the one who bears the sword (which causes "terror").​

As for muslims killing Christians because they are Christians we've already been down that path.
Go at your own peril. However, if you are killed for the sake of Christ great is your reward in heaven.​

The average "life" sentence in America is 11 years and decreasing, a slap on the hand.

A slap on the hand, 11 years of free room and board and medical care at the expense of the victimized along with
an anger management course is not a "terror" to anyone and not in accord with Genesis 9:6 or Romans 13:4.

HankD​
 

freeatlast

New Member
I agree, if there were a national life sentence of hard labor without possibility of parole then I would not support the death penalty.

A true life sentence is a kind of death penalty.

However that is far from reality in our nation today.

Therefore I support the death penalty for wilfull murder in order to protect the innocent.

The Scripture indicates we are just as subject to the "terror" of the sword as anyone else if we do evil:

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.​

Yes God did show mercy on Paul.​

Paul also said through inspiration that God would have mercy on whom He would have mercy.​

And that is just the point as he warns us in Romans 13:4. If you do evil be afraid of the one who bears the sword (which causes "terror").​

As for muslims killing Christians because they are Christians we've already been down that path.
Go at your own peril. However, if you are killed for the sake of Christ great is your reward in heaven.​

The average "life" sentence in America is 11 years and decreasing, a slap on the hand.

A slap on the hand, 11 years of free room and board and medical care at the expense of the victimized along with
an anger management course is not a "terror" to anyone and not in accord with Genesis 9:6 or Romans 13:4.


HankD​

The statement that life in prison is an average of 11 years is absolutely ridiculous and totally incorrect. Most have to serve closer to 25 years before they even have a chance for parole if any parole is even available. Also this old crazy idea that they get free room and board and medical with the idea to suggest that they have it made is clearly satanic. By that I mean any effort to twist truth is satanic and this is twisting truth. If you feel that these people have it so good why don't you sign up yourself and your family?
Now that being said I am not saying that they need to be let out. I am simply saying that our standards needs to be the same as the Lord and there is no provision in scripture to send someone to prison or for how long. Criminal are to pay for their crimes based on scripture not housed in prison. The death penalty however is in scripture and it tells us when to execute it. If I have my way no one would EVER have to serve more then 20 years because those long sentences make career criminals. If a crime is so bad then put the person to death, but do not sentence them and society to sentences that are of no value. Long sentences only lets them out and puts them on state welfare roles. We need to obey the Lord not come up with punishments that are not biblical and the death penality is biblical with no exceptions offered.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
....We need to obey the Lord not come up with punishments that are not biblical and the death penality is biblical with no exceptions offered.
Cain was a murderer that did not recieve the death penalty. Wasn't that an exception? Moses, David and the Apostle Paul were a murderers that did not recieve the death penalty. Weren't they exceptions?

peace to you:praying:
 
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canadyjd

Well-Known Member
I agree, if there were a national life sentence of hard labor without possibility of parole then I would not support the death penalty.
Again, our obedience to our Lord's commands should not be conditioned on whether a secular government acts the way we want them to.
Yes God did show mercy on Paul.


Paul also said through inspiration that God would have mercy on whom He would have mercy.
Brother, you haven't addressed the very clear command of our Lord Jesus Christ found in I Tim. 1:16.

God has also commanded us to follow the example of perfect patience demonstrated by our Lord when He showed mercy to the murderer Paul.​

Support for the death penalty is obviously contrary to that very clear command.​

Do you disagree? Please tell me how I am wrong? Please tell me how a person can follow the command to show mercy with perfect patience to the worst of sinners (even murderers like Paul), and still support putting them to death?​

peace to you:praying:​
 
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freeatlast

New Member
Cain was a murderer that did not recieve the death penalty. Wasn't that an exception? Moses, David and the Apostle Paul were a murderers that did not recieve the death penalty. Weren't they exceptions?

peace to you:praying:

Those are only exceptions from the point of God, not to the law. If at any time God sends a Prophet or speaks out loud to the government to make an exception then it would happen, but we have no right to change Gods' law on our own. The law was given to man for the purpose of setting up the government. The death penalty has never been changed. To stand against the death penality is to stand against God.
 

freeatlast

New Member
Again, our obedience to our Lord's commands should not be conditioned on whether a secular government acts the way we want them to.
Brother, you haven't addressed the very clear command of our Lord Jesus Christ found in I Tim. 1:16.​



God has also commanded us to follow the example of perfect patience demonstrated by our Lord when He showed mercy to the murderer Paul.​



Support for the death penalty is obviously contrary to that very clear command.​



Do you disagree? Please tell me how I am wrong? Please tell me how a person can follow the command to show mercy with perfect patience to the worst of sinners (even murderers like Paul), and still support putting them to death?​



peace to you:praying:​

You constantly say that God says things that He does not say. Do you not fear the warning for adding to scripture and whaqt it will bring you? Show us where God says we are to have perfect patients. What we do have is a command from God to have the death penality. That has never changed.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The statement that life in prison is an average of 11 years is absolutely ridiculous and totally incorrect. Most have to serve closer to 25 years before they even have a chance for parole if any parole is even available. Also this old crazy idea that they get free room and board and medical with the idea to suggest that they have it made is clearly satanic. By that I mean any effort to twist truth is satanic and this is twisting truth. If you feel that these people have it so good why don't you sign up yourself and your family?
Now that being said I am not saying that they need to be let out. I am simply saying that our standards needs to be the same as the Lord and there is no provision in scripture to send someone to prison or for how long. Criminal are to pay for their crimes based on scripture not housed in prison. The death penalty however is in scripture and it tells us when to execute it. If I have my way no one would EVER have to serve more then 20 years because those long sentences make career criminals. If a crime is so bad then put the person to death, but do not sentence them and society to sentences that are of no value. Long sentences only lets them out and puts them on state welfare roles. We need to obey the Lord not come up with punishments that are not biblical and the death penality is biblical with no exceptions offered.

Do a Google on the average length of a life sentence and you will find between 7 to 15 years for capital murder and then they are released.

I used the phrase "without chance of parole" and "hard labor" which means the murderer must work while incarcerated to pay for his/her sustenance for the rest of their natural life.

HankD
 

freeatlast

New Member
Do a Google on the average length of a life sentence and you will find between 7 to 15 years for capital murder and then they are released.

I used the phrase "without chance of parole" and "hard labor" which means the murderer must work while incarcerated to pay for his/her sustenance for the rest of their natural life.

HankD

I did and the average is about 25 years. I saw an article that gave the 7 to 15 years, and many more that gave different numbers. However the actual average is about 25 years. I suggest that you write some real lifers and see how long they have been inside. What may be throwing this off is that some are sentenced like this. 15 to life or 25 to life and so on. Those type of sentences in many states do get out in 7 years or less, but those are not true life sentences. Life sentences in the US have doubled in time served in the last 15 years. Texas now has life without parole. Before, life was 20 years unless aggravated. If not aggravated someone could of gotten out after 2/3 time served. If aggravated they had to do 20 flat. So just saying life and leaving out all the legal wording can be very misleading and makes the averages incorrect of time served. True lifers serve more then 20 years and average around 25. Also to get an average as low as you have stated that would mean some lifers had to get out in much less then 7 years and that simply is incorrect. Like I said true lifers serve an average of 25 years and it is no picnic. It usually leaves them as bums unless they have a very strong family support. That is why I say we need to return to God's ways of dealing with criminal justice.
One more thing. Inmates in most states do not work to support their incarceration. I know of no state today that is not financed by the taxes of the people. Texas used to be, but it caused corruption from the ones running the prisons and the feds made them do away with it many years ago. Here is a link to what Texas does;
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_is_a_sentence_of_life_in_prison_in_texas

And here http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_is_a_sentence_of_Life_in_prison_in_america which covers a broader number of states.
 
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HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I did and the average is about 25 years. I saw an article that gave the 7 to 15 years, and many more that gave different numbers. However the actual average is about 25 years. I suggest that you write some real lifers and see how long they have been inside. What may be throwing this off is that some are sentenced like this. 15 to life or 25 to life and so on. Those type of sentences in many states do get out in 7 years or less, but those are not true life sentences. Life sentences in the US have doubled in time served in the last 15 years. Texas now has life without parole. Before, life was 20 years unless aggravated. If not aggravated someone could of gotten out after 2/3 time served. If aggravated they had to do 20 flat. So just saying life and leaving out all the legal wording can be very misleading and makes the averages incorrect of time served. True lifers serve more then 20 years and average around 25. Also to get an average as low as you have stated that would mean some lifers had to get out in much less then 7 years and that simply is incorrect. Like I said true lifers serve an average of 25 years and it is no picnic. It usually leaves them as bums unless they have a very strong family support. That is why I say we need to return to God's ways of dealing with criminal justice.
One more thing. Inmates in most states do not work to support their incarceration. I know of no state today that is not financed by the taxes of the people. Texas used to be, but it caused corruption from the ones running the prisons and the feds made them do away with it many years ago. Here is a link to what Texas does;
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_is_a_sentence_of_life_in_prison_in_texas

And here http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_is_a_sentence_of_Life_in_prison_in_america which covers a broader number of states.

And that is why I support the death penalty. There is, as you say no consistent true "life sentence" and no plan that I know of for prisons to be self supporting even those who allow the prisoners to work on State roads and grounds, make license plates, mattresses, etc as in the past.

Scripture does allow some blood-guilt to be remitted such as manslaughter and fleeing to one of the Cities of Refuge. But then again manslaughter is unintentional and without premeditation.

And as others have pointed out, the fact remains that even under the General Law of Genesis 9 and the Law given to Moses , God did indeed have mercy on some and remit the blood-guilt for murder (e.g. David, 2 Samuel 13, Manasseh: 2 Chronicles 33).

HankD
 

freeatlast

New Member
I support the death penalty because God calls for it, no other reason. It has nothing to do with how prisons work or do not work. It has nothing to with anything except that the Lord God decided this was the manner in which certain crimes were to be dealt with and He is Lord so I stand with Him.
As far as God showing mercy at times that is also His calling, but He has to directly do it as He did in scripture. It is not simply up to some judge or those who stand against God's ways. The death penalty is to be carried out for the same crimes against humanity as in the past.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I support the death penalty because God calls for it, no other reason. It has nothing to do with how prisons work or do not work. It has nothing to with anything except that the Lord God decided this was the manner in which certain crimes were to be dealt with and He is Lord so I stand with Him.
As far as God showing mercy at times that is also His calling, but He has to directly do it as He did in scripture. It is not simply up to some judge or those who stand against God's ways. The death penalty is to be carried out for the same crimes against humanity as in the past.
But, of course, if you believe that the canon of Scripture is complete, then a direct remitting of a death sentence is impossible apart from perhaps an answer to prayer.

And that is not an arbitrary or off-the-wall scenario.

In 1998 (I believe) then Texas Governor Bush refused to commute the death sentence of professed Christian Karla Fay Tucker and she was executed in spite of prayers of many to the contrary.

Suppose he had commuted her sentence as other governors had done in the past as "an answer to prayer".

Would that then be at His (God's) direction?

just curious.


HankD
 

freeatlast

New Member
But, of course, if you believe that the canon of Scripture is complete, then a direct remitting of a death sentence is impossible apart from perhaps an answer to prayer.

And that is not an arbitrary or off-the-wall scenario.

In 1998 (I believe) then Texas Governor Bush refused to commute the death sentence of professed Christian Karla Fay Tucker and she was executed in spite of prayers of many to the contrary.

Suppose he had commuted her sentence as other governors had done in the past as "an answer to prayer".

Would that then be at His (God's) direction?

just curious.


HankD

Then Governor Bush did the right thing. Why would so many seek to keep her alive by prayer when she was on her way to the Father? This must have been a blessing to her, not a punishment. If my own child was in her condition I would not seek the Lord for a reprieve. If the child was lost I would seek the Lord for his/her salvation. If saved I would pray for his/her acceptance of God's will for the crime.
 
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HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Then Governor Bush did the right thing. Why would so many seek to keep her alive by prayer when she was on her way to the Father? This must have been a blessing to her, not a punishment. If my own child was in her condition I would not seek the Lord for a reprieve. If the child was lost I would seek the Lord for his/her salvation. If saved I would pray for his/her acceptance of God's will for the crime.

OK Thanks.

HankD
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
You constantly say that God says things that He does not say. Do you not fear the warning for adding to scripture and whaqt it will bring you?
Brother, you are speaking without thinking. Read the posts.
Show us where God says we are to have perfect patients.
I Tim. 1:16 "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life."

That is a very clear command. Christians are to follow the example of "perfect patience" that Jesus Christ demonstrated when He showed mercy to Paul.
What we do have is a command from God to have the death penality. That has never changed.
Again, I have demonstrated from scripture that:

#1: In John 8, Jesus changed the conditions by which the death penalty is to be implemented from "1 or 2 witnesses" implementing the death penalty to "the one who is without sin" implementing the death penalty.

#2: In I Tim. 1:16, Jesus has given Christians a very clear command to demonstrate His "perfect patience" when dealing with the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul.

Supporting the death penalty is contrary to "perfect patience".

peace to you:praying:
 

freeatlast

New Member
Brother, you are speaking without thinking. Read the posts. I Tim. 1:16 "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life."

That is a very clear command. Christians are to follow the example of "perfect patience" that Jesus Christ demonstrated when He showed mercy to Paul. Again, I have demonstrated from scripture that:

#1: In John 8, Jesus changed the conditions by which the death penalty is to be implemented from "1 or 2 witnesses" implementing the death penalty to "the one who is without sin" implementing the death penalty.

#2: In I Tim. 1:16, Jesus has given Christians a very clear command to demonstrate His "perfect patience" when dealing with the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul.

Supporting the death penalty is contrary to "perfect patience".

peace to you:praying:

I am not sure what translation you are using, but I can tell you that there is no text that says "perfect patience" That wording is not in the Greek. So again I say that you are not speaking from God's word. Yes you may have found some translation that uses those words, but it is not a translation when it adds words and this is adding words.

Now let's do this.. Let's say that you are correct when you say that the death penalty has been changed because you say we have examples. So if you are going to be honest here based on what you claim is now the standard with examples we now no longer even punish those who commit murder. Correct? No jail time or even an arrest. Look at what you are calling examples. They were all let go without any punishment. So if you want to be consistent then we must also let all murderers go based on your belief that the standards are changed.
So if "Supporting the death penalty is contrary to "perfect patience" then so is sending them to jail or alloting any punishment at all based on the scriptures you gave.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
I am not sure what translation you are using, but I can tell you that there is no text that says "perfect patience" That wording is not in the Greek.
I generally use the New American Standard translation.

The words in the Greek are: ἅπασαν μακροθυμίαν:

"Apasan" is from "apas" meaning "as expressing the totality of any object. "all"...."the whole"....

So, whereas the King James may have translated this word as "all", the NAS translates as "perfect".

"Makrothumian" is from "Makrothumia" meaning "as a state of emotional quietness in the face of unfavorable circumstances... patience... longsuffering... (2) as constraint exercised toward others...forbearance, patience....

(Both definitions from Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament, Friberg, Friberg, Miller, Baker Books, 2000 pp 61 and 252 respectively)

So the translation could be very literally "all patience" or "whole longsuffering" or "all forebearance". I don't believe rendering the passage "perfect patience" adds anything to the words of scripture, however, there is no doubt about the word translated "patience". It certainly has that meaning in the context. Call it "all patience" if you like. It doesn't change the meaning at all.

The passage (I Tim. 1:16) is clear as to what our attitudes towards the worst of sinners should be. It should be the same attitude that Jesus had toward Paul. Support for the death penalty is contrary to the example Jesus gave to us to follow.
Now let's do this.. Let's say that you are correct when you say that the death penalty has been changed because you say we have examples. So if you are going to be honest here based on what you claim is now the standard with examples we now no longer even punish those who commit murder. Correct?
No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying we don't put them to death. That demonstrates mercy and patience. Putting them in prison for life will protect our communities and families, which I support, which is a responsibility for our governments.
....So if "Supporting the death penalty is contrary to "perfect patience" then so is sending them to jail or alloting any punishment at all based on the scriptures you gave....
That is a conclusion that I don't share with you.

First, I don't base my beliefs concerning appropriate punishment for criminals solely on these scriptures that I have given, though they are quite clear in what they teach... Christians should not support the death penalty.

But the appropriate penalties for various crimes is another subject. Perhaps another thread?

BTW, you appear to be saying that we should continue the death penalty as punishment for the crimes prohibited by God at the time of Moses and identified in the O.T. Law.

Is that what you believe?

peace to you:praying:
 
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