Part 3, Earth Millions of Years Old?

[OldRegular]

Science1 = the branch of Mathematical Logic which Assumes there is a Creative God and this God's attributes enable human beings to determine more of His attributes by studying His creation: the Universe(s).


Science2 = the illogical branch of the World Order (AKA: World governance /plural/ ) which by statement of God is doomed to failure.

SHEER~BRILLIANCE~ED! Take a bow~!:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[OldRegular]

This is completely incompetent. Among scientists and creationists, it is creationists who assume the answer and struggle to find and fit data, and when they don't they further assume and deny... and that's not science. I will repeat my only position on this, lest it be forgotten: there is no reason God had to create space-time as man-time before any days of creation then begin working a 6-day week according to the rotation of a planet that did not yet exist.

For one scientific example, you have probably seen cave formations at some time. Observation shows that rainwater trickling through the earth combines with carbon dioxide to form a weak acid, carbonic acid, which, when it reaches the limestone drips and leave a tiny portion of suspended lime and makes the formations; and that it takes about a century for 1/2 inch of such formations to form. Many formations are several feet. So if it would take approx. 24 centuries for one foot to form, the largest any such formation could be is 2 1/2 feet with a 6000-year-old earth. But I've seen thousands of such formations much larger. So... do you accept the scientific conclusion of how cave formations come about, but deny it takes as long as obsevations indicate? Do you think the rate of formations is changed, presumably by the will of God? Or do you think He put it all together to lead to a logical conclusion to indicate the Bible is wrong?

You are making assumptions about the history of formation of these stalactites and stalagmites that you cannot prove. That is the problem with science as they try to prove anything about the age and history of the universe. They basically assume a uniformitarian history of the universe.

 

[OldRegular]

Marcia: // Are you a theistic evolutionist? //

Remind us what theistic evolutionist means.
I believe that God created the universe, including evolution.
I was NOT invited to that creation (unless it is ongoing?)
even though I think of myself as a fair engineer (retired).

Ed

If you were an engineer you should either know or look up what evolution is.

 

[OldRegular]

Alcott: // ... carbonic acid, which, when it reaches the limestone drips and leave a tiny portion of suspended lime and makes the formations; and that it takes about a century for 1/2 inch of such formations to form. //

That is right.

It takes way longer to make the limestone bed, some several miles thick, at the bottom of shallow seas -- much longer then to make lime-cicles after the sea disappears and the limestone bed rises out of the sea.

http://encarta.msn.com/media_461547380_761565838_-1_1/limestone_with_fossils.html

Which pretty well says what I had in my head from my school studies back in Biology in the U.S. High School, 9th grade, some 50 years ago. (I don't have the foggiest what I did yesterday but I remember long ago -- go figure ... )

sedimentary rock -- rock settled in other material (usually water) layer by layer

God's Sedimentary Plan for Doctrine building:
Isa 28:10 (KJV1611 Edition)
For precept must be vpon precept,
precept vpon precept,
line vpon line,
line vpon line,
here a litle, and there a litle.

Ed

You apparently do not believe what Scripture teaches about the world wide Flood. If not you make a liar out of GOD since HE said HE would not destroy the earth again by flood [Genesis 9: 8ff].

 

[Ed Edwards]

Ed

If you were an engineer you should either know or look up what evolution is.

I'm sure I know what evolution is. But it takes longer than a 8-hour work shift 'day' or a '48-hour complete named 'day' on the whole earth.

One reason the sky is black at night (except for a few thousand stars) is that the Milky Way Galaxy (some 180,000 Light Years* across) has a rather sharply defined border. Anyway, the light from that border takes some 90,000 Years for light to traverse. The sky is black, it would be much blacker if the 'universe' was created 10,000 or 13,000 years ago.

* 1 light year is the DISTANCE travelled in one year by light. That speed is something like 186,000 Miles per second - that is: the speed of light in a vacuum.

 

[Ed Edwards]

OldRegular: // You apparently do not believe what Scripture teaches about the world wide Flood. If not you make a liar out of GOD since HE said HE would not destroy the earth again by flood

I beleive what the Scripture teaches about a world wide Flood.
What do you think the Scripture teaches?
I bet it is NOT what I think the Scripture Teaches.
I don't see how you got your idea of what I believe from what I said..
I recommend you reading my writings.

BTW, Jumping to Conclusions is my main form of heart exercise

 

[OldRegular]

OldRegular: // You apparently do not believe what Scripture teaches about the world wide Flood. If not you make a liar out of GOD since HE said HE would not destroy the earth again by flood

I beleive what the Scripture teaches about a world wide Flood.
What do you think the Scripture teaches?
I bet it is NOT what I think the Scripture Teaches.
I don't see how you got your idea of what I believe from what I said..
I recommend you reading my writings.

BTW, Jumping to Conclusions is my main form of heart exercise

I got it from the following post. Sedimentary rock could have been formed at a very rapid rate during the World Wide Flood.

Posted by ED ED
It takes way longer to make the limestone bed, some several miles thick, at the bottom of shallow seas -- much longer then to make lime-cicles after the sea disappears and the limestone bed rises out of the sea.

http://encarta.msn.com/media_4615473...h_fossils.html

Limestone is a sedimentary rock that forms either by the accumulation of shells, shell fragments, or coral fragments, or by the crystallization of the mineral calcite from water. The first kind, called fossiliferous limestone, can provide geologists with a record of the evolution of prehistoric animals. Geologists call limestone containing large fragments of shell or coral 'coquina'.

Which pretty well says what I had in my head from my school studies back in Biology in the U.S. High School, 9th grade, some 50 years ago. (I don't have the foggiest what I did yesterday but I remember long ago -- go figure ... )

sedimentary rock -- rock settled in other material (usually water) layer by layer

 

[Alcott]

Did Noah take 2 of all 350,000 species of beetles on the ark with him? That would be about 127 pounds just of all the beetles. And there are more than 3000 species of spider, 2000 of scorpion, 4500 of worm... pounds, tons, of all these little critters if the only way of keeping them alive was to have 2 breeders kept alive for 150 days plus all the days to collect them. Did Noah have to go to Australia to get a male and female funnel web spider [and keep these aggressive arachnids from biting him, as their bite is fatal], or did the breeding survivors swim back there, leaving no descendants anywhere else?

 

[Ed Edwards]

I gave a scripture to support my statement:

// God's Sedimentary Plan for Doctrine building:
Isa 28:10 (KJV1611 Edition)
For precept must be vpon precept,
precept vpon precept,
line vpon line,
line vpon line,
here a litle, and there a litle. //

// Sedimentary rock could have been formed at a very rapid rate during the World Wide Flood. //

As it says where in the Bible?

Anyway, would the World Wide Flood (if any) have formed sedimentary rock over 8 miles deep, 400 miles north and South, 200 Miles (E&W) as exists in Western Oklahoma, The panhandle of Texas, and Western Kansas? BTW, lots of the World's Oil rests in sedimentary rock. We are burning the oil layed down in Oklahoma either 400 Million Years ago or 8,000 years ago at the Great Flood. Does your scripture say it is alright with God to use up all the Oil He created in FOUR GENERATIONS?

Next lesson will be on tipping points in Global Warming
God Demands Stewardship by Mankind of what He made (particularly the surface of the Earth).
IMHO, the burning of half a Billion Years of Oil production in four generations is NOT what God had in mind. The World Order will be called to judgment over this matter.

And the Short-life Earth goes against the Doctrine of Our Stewardship of the Earth & it's stuff.

An area 50,000 miles square that was one foot deep would be needed to wash into an area of 8x400x200 Cubic Miles. Sorry, hasn't been any 50,000 mile square areas of rock on the surface earth in the last 20,000 years.

 

[Marcia]

Marcia: // Are you a theistic evolutionist? //

Remind us what theistic evolutionist means.
I believe that God created the universe, including evolution.
I was NOT invited to that creation (unless it is ongoing?)
even though I think of myself as a fair engineer (retired).

From what I understand, theistic evolution believes God created the big bang and let things evolve. This, of course, contradicts Gen. 1. The order of creation in Gen. 1 is not the order in evolutionary theory, and evolution does not agree with 6 days. Also, in evolution, there would have to be death before man came along.

 

[Marcia]

Did Noah take 2 of all 350,000 species of beetles on the ark with him? That would be about 127 pounds just of all the beetles. And there are more than 3000 species of spider, 2000 of scorpion, 4500 of worm... pounds, tons, of all these little critters if the only way of keeping them alive was to have 2 breeders kept alive for 150 days plus all the days to collect them. Did Noah have to go to Australia to get a male and female funnel web spider [and keep these aggressive arachnids from biting him, as their bite is fatal], or did the breeding survivors swim back there, leaving no descendants anywhere else?

John Woodmorappe, author of the definitive Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study, estimated that only about 15% of the animals on the ark would have been larger than a sheep. This figure does not take into account the possibility that God may have brought Noah “infant” animals, which can be significantly smaller than adult animals.

How many animals were on the ark? Woodmorappe estimates about 16,000 “kinds.” What is a “kind”? The designation of “kind” is thought to be much broader than the designation “species.” Even as there are 400-something dog breeds but they all belong to one species (Canis familiaris), in the same way many species can belong to one kind. Some think that the designation “genus” may be somewhat close to the Biblical “kind.”

Nevertheless, even if we presume that “kind” is synonymous with “species,” “there are not very many species of mammals, birds, amphibians and reptiles. The leading systematic biologist, Ernst Mayr, gives the number as 17,600. Allowing for two of each species on the ark, plus seven of the few so-called “clean” kinds of animals, plus a reasonable increment for known extinct species, it is obvious that not more than say, 50,000 animals were on the ark.” (Morris, 1987)

Some have estimated that there were as many as 25,000 kinds of animals represented on the ark. This is a high-end estimation. With two of each kind and seven of some the number of animals would exceed 50,000, though not by very much relatively speaking. Regardless, whether there were 16,000 or 25,000 kinds of animals, even with two of each and seven of some, scholars agree that there was plenty of room for all of the animals on the ark, plus food and water with room to spare.

....With over 1,200 scholarly references to academic studies, Woodmorappe’s book is “a modern systematic evaluation of the alleged difficulties surrounding Noah's Ark” (John Woodmorappe, “A Resource for Answering the Critics of Noah’s Ark,” Impact No. 273 March 1996. Institute for Creation Research, 30 January 2005 http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-273.htm). Woodmorappe claims that after years of systematically examining all of the questions which have been raised over the years, “all of the arguments against the Ark are… found wanting. In fact, the vast majority of the anti-Ark arguments, at first superficially plausible, turn out to be easily invalidated.”

Source
http://www.gotquestions.org/Noahs-ark-animals.html

Also, see
http://creation.com/how-did-all-the-animals-fit-on-noah-s-ark

 

[Thinkingstuff]

What Alcott cited there are metaphors and figurative language, not parables. As for the other one, I responded to that as well.

There is no evidence in the text or context of Gen. 1 that it is a parable. To say it is a parable is to do violence to the text and imo to not be handling God's word properly.

If you studied all modern fictional liturature you will find that studing a narrative internally does not reveal how its meant. My friends and I call certain fictional accounts "I books" because its written in a first person narrative. Now the entire story is fictional though there may be elements of truth. Now if you didn't know the context in which the book was written you may well assume it was being literal. Like a detective story. Maybe Mikey Spilain. "At 9:00 am, I was sitting in my office reading over the paper trying to make heads or tails out of what happened to Susie when a tap sounded at my door. I told Mag to get it while I busied myself trying to look like I was about something important." Fictional story but nothing internal to the story reveals whether its a fictional narrative or a documentary narrative. 6,000 years from now if this is the only piece of literature remaining people of that day may not know the context and may assume it documentary in nature like a journal.

 

[OldRegular]

If you studied all modern fictional liturature you will find that studing a narrative internally does not reveal how its meant. My friends and I call certain fictional accounts "I books" because its written in a first person narrative. Now the entire story is fictional though there may be elements of truth. Now if you didn't know the context in which the book was written you may well assume it was being literal. Like a detective story. Maybe Mikey Spilain. "At 9:00 am, I was sitting in my office reading over the paper trying to make heads or tails out of what happened to Susie when a tap sounded at my door. I told Mag to get it while I busied myself trying to look like I was about something important." Fictional story but nothing internal to the story reveals whether its a fictional narrative or a documentary narrative. 6,000 years from now if this is the only piece of literature remaining people of that day may not know the context and may assume it documentary in nature like a journal.

What does fictional literature have to do with the Bible? Is this some type of symbolic literature implying that Genesis 1 is fiction?

 

[OldRegular]

I gave a scripture to support my statement:

// God's Sedimentary Plan for Doctrine building:
Isa 28:10 (KJV1611 Edition)
For precept must be vpon precept,
precept vpon precept,
line vpon line,
line vpon line,
here a litle, and there a litle. //

// Sedimentary rock could have been formed at a very rapid rate during the World Wide Flood. //

As it says where in the Bible?

Anyway, would the World Wide Flood (if any) have formed sedimentary rock over 8 miles deep, 400 miles north and South, 200 Miles (E&W) as exists in Western Oklahoma, The panhandle of Texas, and Western Kansas? BTW, lots of the World's Oil rests in sedimentary rock. We are burning the oil layed down in Oklahoma either 400 Million Years ago or 8,000 years ago at the Great Flood. Does your scripture say it is alright with God to use up all the Oil He created in FOUR GENERATIONS?

Next lesson will be on tipping points in Global Warming
God Demands Stewardship by Mankind of what He made (particularly the surface of the Earth).
IMHO, the burning of half a Billion Years of Oil production in four generations is NOT what God had in mind. The World Order will be called to judgment over this matter.

And the Short-life Earth goes against the Doctrine of Our Stewardship of the Earth & it's stuff.

An area 50,000 miles square that was one foot deep would be needed to wash into an area of 8x400x200 Cubic Miles. Sorry, hasn't been any 50,000 mile square areas of rock on the surface earth in the last 20,000 years.

Ed
You claim to be an engineer. Could you get away with writing the above disjointed nonsense wherever you worked?

 

[OldRegular]

Did Noah take 2 of all 350,000 species of beetles on the ark with him? That would be about 127 pounds just of all the beetles. And there are more than 3000 species of spider, 2000 of scorpion, 4500 of worm... pounds, tons, of all these little critters if the only way of keeping them alive was to have 2 breeders kept alive for 150 days plus all the days to collect them. Did Noah have to go to Australia to get a male and female funnel web spider [and keep these aggressive arachnids from biting him, as their bite is fatal], or did the breeding survivors swim back there, leaving no descendants anywhere else?

What makes you think Australia existed at the time of the flood? Were you there?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

What does fictional literature have to do with the Bible? Is this some type of symbolic literature implying that Genesis 1 is fiction?

You have to read all the post between Marcia and myself with regard to this. You're kind of jumping in the middle of the conversation. I don't mind Just your questions would be better answered by review.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Ed
You claim to be an engineer. Could you get away with writing the above disjointed nonsense wherever you worked?

Engineers work with facts and numbers and things that have logical progression. If you're having problems maybe its you and not Ed.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

What makes you think Australia existed at the time of the flood? Were you there?

Obvioulsy he speaking of the animals that inhabit the Island which are unique to Australia. For instance that continent has the largest and most unique number of Marsupials in the world. Which would make sense if they evolved differently than elsewhere in the world. We see how isolated Australia is from the rest of the world it may indicate a different pattern of evolution. Also the most poisonest animals and insects exist there.

 

[OldRegular]

Did Noah take 2 of all 350,000 species of beetles on the ark with him? That would be about 127 pounds just of all the beetles. And there are more than 3000 species of spider, 2000 of scorpion, 4500 of worm... pounds, tons, of all these little critters if the only way of keeping them alive was to have 2 breeders kept alive for 150 days plus all the days to collect them. Did Noah have to go to Australia to get a male and female funnel web spider [and keep these aggressive arachnids from biting him, as their bite is fatal], or did the breeding survivors swim back there, leaving no descendants anywhere else?

If you are really interested you can go to:

http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=type&ID=2

Not that it will make any difference.

 

[OldRegular]

Engineers work with facts and numbers and things that have logical progression. If you're having problems maybe its you and not Ed.

Surely you do not believe that Ed Ed's posts are logical? Perhaps you will use some of your growing powers to influence Ed Ed.