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Perfect VS Accurate

Which one do you believe?


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    7
  • Poll closed .
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Trotter

<img src =/6412.jpg>

Actually, no. it is someone trying to use the KJV as the be-all and end-all measuring stick. I always thought that God was to be the measure we use... but what do I know? I mean after all, I have not been "enlightened" to this "revelation" as some here have.

As long as inane comments like Askjo's comparison based on the number of word differences continue then the blasphemous man-made doctrine of KJV worship will continue as well.
 

RAdam

New Member
From http://bible.org/article/plain-sens...rpretive-singularity-galatians-3-and-romans-4



At first glance, Gal 3.16 seems to be an example of careful grammatical exegesis; Paul observes and interprets the minutia of the text, stopping to parse a single word in the Biblical text: “But to Abraham the promises were spoken, and to his seed. [and] it does not say ‘and to seeds’ as if [they were spoken] to many, but as if [spoken] to one [recipient], ‘and to your seed,’ who is Christ.”8 After a cursory reading, one might assume that this text serves as a template for grammatical exegesis, but further consideration reveals complication in Paul’s argument. When considering the blessings YHWH vowed to Abraham in Genesis, singularity does not seem to be the most natural reading. In fact, much of the content in these promises revolves around the extreme plurality of the seed (that they will be as plentiful as the dust of the earth (Gen 13.14) and more numerous than the stars of heaven (Gen 15.5). Further lexical study demonstrates that the singular form is not as acutely descriptive as Paul may have let on.9 Later he will even use a singular form of seed (σπέρμα in 3.29) as predicate nominative with a pural antecedent,10 and so seems very familiar with this term’s collective usage.
So far, there are two levels of tension for this test case. Galatians 3.16 presents its own interpretive hurdles. Even if the reader overcomes those, he must accept the compounding effect presented by Paul’s development of the Abrahamic seed in Rom 4.13-18. Here Paul uses the same language to refer (plurally) to believers without any mention of the seed’s singularity. Exegetes, who move beyond the assumption that Paul is simply paying attention to textual detail, acknowledge the difficulty and offer a variety of solutions as grids for understanding Paul’s use of the OT.
One potential option lies in identifying Paul’s source text for his quotation. Most references to Abraham’s seed in Genesis are immediately preceded or followed by plural pronouns or other referents for which the seed serves as antecedent, seeming to make plain the term’s collective sense in the context.11 Gen 22.18 emerges from the promises in Genesis fitting for a singular referent and works well theologically as looking forward to Christ’s redeeming the Gentiles. In the context of Gen 22, it is much easier to find an individual referent in verse 18. Verses 16 and 17 still deal with the multiplication of Abraham’s seed, but in verse 18, the seed is named as the agent of blessing for the nations, a unique statement among YHWH’s promises concerning Abraham’s seed. It parallels the original promises of Gen 12.2, 3, in which Abraham is said to be a blessing for others and it is in him that all the families of the earth will be blessed.12
F. F. Bruce finds textual difficulty in attributing Gal 3.16 to Gen 22.18 directly (as will be discussed in greater detail below). To remedy this and still recognize the content of Gen 22.18, he views Paul’s language as other than direct quotation from any Genesis text, but as more closely approximating a thematic allusion referencing the agent of blessing concept in Gen 22.18. He concedes direct quotation as a possibility given Paul’s attention to textual detail as a premise for the argument, but seems to identify the citation as τῷ σπέρματι αὐτοῦ (rather than τῷ σπέρματι σοῦ) relegating the quotation to the earlier portion of the verse.13 By doing this he is able to keep it in line with Gen 22.18 (as well as Sir 44.12). Mary’s language in the Magnificat (cf. Luke 1.55) lends biblical warrant to see this general thematic usage of “Abraham’s seed” as a technical Messianic reference in the first century.14
One final, plausible resolution is a corporate solidarity model:15 that Paul is using Christ here as the personal Messiah with a view to his organic union to the redeemed people of God, reminiscent of his use of ἐν Χριστῷ language throughout his epistles or his development of the σῶμα Χριστοῦ themes of in Eph 4 and 5. This argument is closely tied to and supported by Paul’s own corporate use of σπέρμα in 3.29. This option preserves both the singular and corporate senses of the term without pitting the two verses against one another.16 Augustine argued the legitimacy of this interpretive scheme in the late fourth century: “we need not be in a difficulty when a transition is made from the head to the body.”17 If Paul is using the language to refer to body and head as Augustine suggests, then there is no reason for the individual sense to war against the corporate, because the two are so closely tied to one another.

What a bunch of nonsense. Paul said in Galatians 3:19, "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come, to whom the promise was made." Now, who is Paul talking about? Who is the seed? Obviously in context he is talking about Christ. Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of that promise.

This is the reason why seed is the only proper way to translate those verses in Genesis. It can be used both pluraly and singularly, whereas descendants cannot.
 

Mexdeaf

New Member
What a bunch of nonsense. Paul said in Galatians 3:19, "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come, to whom the promise was made." Now, who is Paul talking about? Who is the seed? Obviously in context he is talking about Christ. Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of that promise.

This is the reason why seed is the only proper way to translate those verses in Genesis. It can be used both pluraly and singularly, whereas descendants cannot.


You are of course welcome to your interpretation. But good men can argue it from both sides (and probably the middle also) yet it does not make them, nor the NKJV, heretical.
 

RAdam

New Member
You are of course welcome to your interpretation. But good men can argue it from both sides (and probably the middle also) yet it does not make them, nor the NKJV, heretical.

That isn't my interpretation, that is how Paul used the scripture. Paul said the seed is Christ.
 

Askjo

New Member
It has 4000+ places it is more accurate. :)

What are you really trying to ask because your question is illogical. Of course, all translations have different ENGLISH words. There is more than one way to translate a word into a language.
If NASB has 4,000+ DIFFERENT words, they did not identify with the wordings of the autographs.

For example of John 1:1

KJV

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NKJV

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NIV

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NASB

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

See the above -- they identified with the wordings of the autographs.
 
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Askjo

New Member
Then the Geneva was more accurate than the KJV because the KJV has way more than 4,000 different words than the Geneva.

:rolleyes:
Most churches used the KJV over the Geneva for many years. Most preachers used the KJV over the Geneva for many years. The KJV is almost 400 years old because of its accuracy.
 

Askjo

New Member
What a bunch of nonsense. Paul said in Galatians 3:19, "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come, to whom the promise was made." Now, who is Paul talking about? Who is the seed? Obviously in context he is talking about Christ. Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of that promise.

This is the reason why seed is the only proper way to translate those verses in Genesis. It can be used both pluraly and singularly, whereas descendants cannot.
From Genesis to Revelation there are no contradictions. Therefore God can't contradict Himself.
 

Trotter

<img src =/6412.jpg>
Most churches used the KJV over the Geneva for many years. Most preachers used the KJV over the Geneva for many years. The KJV is almost 400 years old because of its accuracy.

They used the KJV over the Geneva because the crown had banned all translations save the King's own.

The KJV is 400 years old because it was translated 400 years ago. Its age has absolutely nothing to do with accuracy.

It would help if you checked the history behind things before you boast about them.
 

jbh28

Active Member
If NASB has 4,000+ DIFFERENT words, they did not identify with the wordings of the autographs.
Different words from the KJV. Or do you think the KJV is the original?
For example of John 1:1

KJV

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NKJV

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NIV

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NASB

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

See the above -- they identified with the wordings of the autographs.
um...they all say the exact same thing. Did you have a point, or did you just like this verse(as do I) and wanted to post it?

Most churches used the KJV over the Geneva for many years. Most preachers used the KJV over the Geneva for many years. The KJV is almost 400 years old because of its accuracy.
The KJV is almost 400 years old because it was translated almost 400 years ago. Did you fail Kindergarten? Trotter already answered the other statement that you made, so I don't need to do it. I repeated the 400 statement because...well.. that wouldn't be nice. :)
 

jbh28

Active Member
From Genesis to Revelation there are no contradictions. Therefore God can't contradict Himself.

You're right, the Scripture doesn't have any contradictions. This doesn't mean that versions won't. I always find it comical when skeptics always seem to use the KJV to find their contradictions instead of reading the other versions to see such a contradiction doesn't exists. Like when the KJV calls a bat a bird, but a bat isn't a bird. The Bible has no contradiction. Even the KJV translators said they were not sure of some of the animals in Hebrew, so they made their best guess as to what it meant.
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
If NASB has 4,000+ DIFFERENT words, they did not identify with the wordings of the autographs.

For example of John 1:1

KJV

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NKJV

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NIV

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NASB

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

See the above -- they identified with the wordings of the autographs.
While all of the translations of Jn 1:1 that you have given are all precise and in agreement, but all of them are inaccurate. Jesus was and is. The verb is in the imperfect tense. It is an incomplete action.
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
You are of course welcome to your interpretation. But good men can argue it from both sides (and probably the middle also) yet it does not make them, nor the NKJV, heretical.
The things that makes a translation heretical is when men and women are not living for Jesus Christ because of their life. While they may have conservative theology they may also be living like a practical atheist.
 

jonathan.borland

Active Member
While all of the translations of Jn 1:1 that you have given are all precise and in agreement, but all of them are inaccurate. Jesus was and is. The verb is in the imperfect tense. It is an incomplete action.

If all of these translations are inaccurate, what then is your proposed accurate translation of the verse?
 

Winman

Active Member
You're right, the Scripture doesn't have any contradictions. This doesn't mean that versions won't. I always find it comical when skeptics always seem to use the KJV to find their contradictions instead of reading the other versions to see such a contradiction doesn't exists. Like when the KJV calls a bat a bird, but a bat isn't a bird. The Bible has no contradiction. Even the KJV translators said they were not sure of some of the animals in Hebrew, so they made their best guess as to what it meant.

The KJB calls a bat a fowl. This is not an error whatsoever, there was no such classification as "mammal" until Linnaeus defined this classification in the 1700's. Until that time a bat was called a fowl, and a whale was called a fish.
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
If all of these translations are inaccurate, what then is your proposed accurate translation of the verse?
Exactly what the Greek text teaches and not just a past tense action. Jesus is much more than that. He is past and present while continuing on in Jn 1:1. Anything less than that falls short of who Jesus is and was.
 

rbell

Active Member
Most churches used the KJV over the Geneva for many years. Most preachers used the KJV over the Geneva for many years. The KJV is almost 400 years old because of its accuracy.

Wow, so oldest means best?

Surprised you don't use the Vulgate then. It's older.
 

jonathan.borland

Active Member
Exactly what the Greek text teaches and not just a past tense action. Jesus is much more than that. He is past and present while continuing on in Jn 1:1. Anything less than that falls short of who Jesus is and was.

So please post your accurate translation of the verse, or are you perhaps confusing translation with exposition?

Jonathan C. Borland
 

NaasPreacher (C4K)

Well-Known Member
The KJB calls a bat a fowl. This is not an error whatsoever, there was no such classification as "mammal" until Linnaeus defined this classification in the 1700's. Until that time a bat was called a fowl, and a whale was called a fish.

Good point. An excellent reason to update translations as the language grows and develops in order to maintain accuracy of translation.
 
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