Hello Bob,
My POV is that the High. of Priestly ministry of Christ begins after His bodily resurrection and ascension to the Heavenly Sanctuary as our High Priest (Heb 7-9) and that in His Role as our High Priest we have an Advocate with the Father - for animal blood could never provide forgiveness of sins. Thus even OT saints were forgiven by virtue of the the work of Christ at the cross for as Paul says "God calleth those things which be not as though they were" KJV Rom 4:17.
Christ's work in the heavenly sanctuary deals with the sins of all - from Adam to the end of Revelation. Anyone forgiven - anyone saved, anyone whose sins are blotted out - receives that benefit through the "one Gospel" and there is no such thing as a "lost person keeping the law and getting forgiveness by law keeping".
I agree with all of this.
Concerning the animal sacrifice for forgiveness of sin, it did bring forgiveness, but we need to remember that these sacrifices were a type, or picture, of Christ's death.
So it is Christ's death that brought the true forgiveness.
But keep in mind one thing also...those who brought the animal sacrifice were not aware of Christ's death.
Neither were those who put Christ to death...had they known it, they would not have killed the Lord of Glory.
Gal 3
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
This is what the writer of Hebrews is talking about in 5:10-6:1.
WE progress from the tutelage stage to the "coming of age", or, maturation.
It is only at the point where the lost turns to "that Rock" and accepts Christ that "faith has come" and they are no longer under the condemnation of the Law. The Law continues to condemn lost sinners today just as it did in Paul's day - just as it did in Moses' day. That is the role of the law of God for the "Lost". But for the saved it serves the James 2, and Romans 2, and Romans 6 role.
The indwelling of God's Spirit will bring the result of good works and fruit, this is what we were created in Christ Jesus unto.
The legal action of blotting out sins that are on the books of record in heaven - could not happen until Christ was risen and began his High Priestly work.
True. the final accounting will take place at the Great White Throne.
But the action of "really forgiving sin" was valid from Adam to this very day - through the merits of Christ.
I agree. Those of Hebrews 11 had forgiveness of sin, and were declared Just.
Lot is the best example, I think, because scripture paints him as a rotten person...but, he was declared just.
Animal blood itself does not pay the debt of sin - it is simply a symbol pointing the sinner to Christ's sacrifice much like our communion service today.
The sacrifice of the law was but a covering of sin.
The sacrifice of Christ "takes away sin."
That is where "I think we differ" - Notice that in Daniel 9 - Daniel prays for the forgiveness of the sins of this people and his own sins - without priest or sacrifice. Animal blood is not what obtained forgiveness of sins. It was merely the symbol pointing forward to Christ's sacrifice - used in worship during the pre-cross ages.
Again, it represented the future death of Christ, even as the lamb's blood on the doorposts and lintel did.
I have not heard of any text saying "The sin nature is forgiven " - the sinful nature is "what we have" until we are either resurrected from the dead or translated and given immortal bodies.
We do stil exist in our earthly bodies, which are under the curse that the whole world is under...and we await the redemption of them, as the whole creation awaits redemption.
We were separated from God through Adam, by the sin we inherited from him.
Consider:
Ephesians 1:7 (King James Version)
7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Colossians 1:14 (King James Version)
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
You could look at this in two ways:
1-An ongoing process (sinning...forgiven, sinning...forgiven)
2-Sin...forgiven.
Hebrews makes it clear that there is one sacrifice.
And that there is one forgiveness for sin.
The contrast is where we see this glorious truth...it states that the sacrifice of the Covenant of Law was repeated over and over for the same sins, but that of Christ was once.
I won't harp on this too much at the present time, because I believe if you really look at the theme of perfection, you will easily see what I mean.
Which, by the way, I will try to get to the next segment after this post.
It is the "repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins" message of Acts 2 - only in pre-cross language.
Our obedience - be it repentance and confession (required of both NT and OT mankind) or participation on the Lord's Supper (NT) or in animal sacrifices (OT) is not what pays the debt of sin or earns forgiveness from God.
It merely shows the outward confirmation that we have chosen the Gospel - chosen God's way over the path of rebellion.
Again, I agree.
But on "what basis" does God forgive sins? Is it the "merits of a goat"? Or is it the merrits of Christ?
This brings us back to the Romans 4 point where God calls those things which are not as though they were.
Even as Christ hung in the place of sinner, when He was not, even so we stand in the place of the righteous, when we are not.
Romans 4 is a good example:
25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
As far as forgiveness through animal sacrifice, it isn't much different than Jesus telling the crippled man, "thy sin is forgiven" before the Cross.
God can forgive sin.
But I think it was the same then as it is now, it was the heart of the offerer that forgiveness was dependant on, meaning, if they had repented, God was merciful to forgive.
If they had not...then I believe their sacrifice was as useless as church attendance is for those who have not been born again.
It's just ritual.
As you point out below - the pre-cross solution was the same as the post -cross solution for the lost sinner - "repent"
And I believe it has always been brought about by the moving of the Spirit of God.
Luke 3
1Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,
2Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
3And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
[/quote] [/QUOTE]
His call was for them to turn to God, this is always the key message.
I don't view the call as saying "If you get baptised, you will be forgiven", but, as you stated earlier, it was more, "Repent, and be baptised to show you are willing to tell everyone you have sinned, and you are turning from that sin to God."
I agree with some qualifier - the Old Covenant gets tossed around with different meanings.
The primary meaning in the book of Hebrews is the one that was in operation in that day.
It is also called the "first" covenant, but it was not.
But in Hebrews, because these two are being contrasted, we are told that the Covenant of Law was the first, and the New is the...well, for lack of a better term, the New.
In the case of Heb 8 and 2Cor 3 - the Old Covenant represents the condition of the lost - to this very day - and the New Covenant represents the Gospel condition of the saved (adoption by Christ, forgiveness of sins, the Law written on the heart).
That is very true. Hebrews makes the case that to continue to follow the Covenant of Law is to reject the New Covenant.
Thus the Old Covenant remains in effect to this very day for the lost - just as the New Covenant was effective from Adam to this very day - for the saved.
in Christ,
Bob
God bless.
