Please define 'easy believism", as isn't it faith alone in Christ that does save?

[JesusFan]

since we as baptists would hold that one is saved by the Cross/grace of God done by the atonement of Christ for/on our behalf...

Apostle paul stated believe in your heart, confess that with your mouth, and you SHALL be saved...

isn't it the faith that allows us to access that and be saved, and good works/changed lives etc ALL proceed after that conversion point

isn't one saved immediatly by grace of God, and "Lordship" follows, but does NOT cause one to be saved?

 

[Ruiz]

since we as baptists would hold that one is saved by the Cross/grace of God done by the atonement of Christ for/on our behalf...

Apostle paul stated believe in your heart, confess that with your mouth, and you SHALL be saved...

isn't it the faith that allows us to access that and be saved, and good works/changed lives etc ALL proceed after that conversion point

isn't one saved immediatly by grace of God, and "Lordship" follows, but does NOT cause one to be saved?

This may simplify the issue, and that may need to be done, but this issue was divided into 9 different issues. They were:

Repentance
Faith
Faith's Object
Faith's effects
Salvation's Extent
Christ's Lordship
Holy Desire
Assurance
Perseverance

Perseverance: I used the statement by both Hodge and Ryrie that belief is a one time event, and may not continue into the future as representing a part of easy believism. On the other hand, LS says that if you believe you will continue to believe into the future.

In assurrance, Ryrie and Hodge focuses on a one time decision and the Bible. However, LS often turns to I John and notes the use of fruit to help us "know" if we are in the kingdom of God.

Holy Desire- Hodge points out that a Christian may never love the disciples or exhibit love. LS states that Christians will love the saints.

Christ's Lordship- Faith in Christ involves surrender to God as being God, whereas Hodge believes you can "believe" without submitting to God.

Salvation's extent- Easy believism believes salvation only extends to getting eternal life. LS says it involves all of life and godliness, we don't believe it is just a ticket into heaven.

Faith- many point that faith is merely a belief in certain facts about God (MacArthur called this a form of creedalism). LS says that faith is a work of God that God will complete.

Repentance- Some say repentance has nothing to do with salvation, some just say it is not supposed to be a part of the Gospel message but only a change of mind about something. LS sees repentance as turning from sin, not a work but an outgrowth of faith.

 

[Greektim]

since we as baptists would hold that one is saved by the Cross/grace of God done by the atonement of Christ for/on our behalf...

Apostle paul stated believe in your heart, confess that with your mouth, and you SHALL be saved...

isn't it the faith that allows us to access that and be saved, and good works/changed lives etc ALL proceed after that conversion point

isn't one saved immediatly by grace of God, and "Lordship" follows, but does NOT cause one to be saved?

What do you do with the many passages that speak of salvation but do not mention faith or belief??? Lk 24:47 is the one I keep bringing up, but there are tons.

 

[mandym]

Apostle paul stated believe in your heart, confess that with your mouth, and you SHALL be saved...

A poor editing of Paul's words"

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[mandym]

since we as baptists would hold that one is saved by the Cross/grace of God done by the atonement of Christ for/on our behalf...

Apostle paul stated believe in your heart, confess that with your mouth, and you SHALL be saved...

isn't it the faith that allows us to access that and be saved, and good works/changed lives etc ALL proceed after that conversion point

isn't one saved immediatly by grace of God, and "Lordship" follows, but does NOT cause one to be saved?

Easy believism is the attempt to obtain a Savior with no real heart for God. a believer is a disciple, a disciple is a believer you cannot have one without the other.

 

[Greektim]

Easy believism is the attempt to obtain a Savior with no real heart for God. a believer is a disciple, a disciple is a believer you cannot have one without the other.

Or...

easy believism is to dumb down and water down the message so much that the emphasis is man centered. Do you want to go to heaven? Yes! You don't want to go to hell??? Great! Just ask Jesus into your heart!!! Prayer this prayer... well, brother, you are on your way.

If faith truly is a result of regeneration, then the above is easy to "believe". But Jesus message was so dificult, that only a regenerate heart would accept those words. Faith is hard... that is a faith that hears the full comprehensive gospel message.

 

[mandym]

If faith truly is a result of regeneration, then the above is easy to "believe". But Jesus message was so dificult, that only a regenerate heart would accept those words. Faith is hard... that is a faith that hears the full comprehensive gospel message.

Scripture no where suggests in the slightest that regeneration comes before salvation.

 

[Greektim]

Scripture no where suggests in the slightest that regeneration comes before salvation.

Not going to hijack this thread so we can talk about that somewhere else.

 

[JesusFan]

This may simplify the issue, and that may need to be done, but this issue was divided into 9 different issues. They were:

Repentance
Faith
Faith's Object
Faith's effects
Salvation's Extent
Christ's Lordship
Holy Desire
Assurance
Perseverance

Perseverance: I used the statement by both Hodge and Ryrie that belief is a one time event, and may not continue into the future as representing a part of easy believism. On the other hand, LS says that if you believe you will continue to believe into the future.

This part is strange to me, as I believe in grace alone/faith alone, so see us as getting saved by the Will/act of God, so we would be eternally secured in the Cross, and since salvation is a Gift from god, would always have it![quote/]

In assurrance, Ryrie and Hodge focuses on a one time decision and the Bible. However, LS often turns to I John and notes the use of fruit to help us "know" if we are in the kingdom of God.

Holy Desire- Hodge points out that a Christian may never love the disciples or exhibit love. LS states that Christians will love the saints.

Hodge is wrong on this, as John states that we will indeed ove the bethren![quote/]

Christ's Lordship- Faith in Christ involves surrender to God as being God, whereas Hodge believes you can "believe" without submitting to God.

would say that intially, one can have jesus as the saviour, while Lordship is something we will gow and mature up into...

Could be sematics, as one can have jesus has Lord, but not surrendered up all areas of my life yet, as we have different maturity/growth stages!
[quote/]

Salvation's extent- Easy believism believes salvation only extends to getting eternal life. LS says it involves all of life and godliness, we don't believe it is just a ticket into heaven.

neither does those of us holding to grace/faith alone!
as we holdthat the new birth will result in achanged life, as its the HS now living in us[quote/]

Faith- many point that faith is merely a belief in certain facts about God (MacArthur called this a form of creedalism). LS says that faith is a work of God that God will complete.

would say that misrepresents ourposition, as the faith that saves us is a Gift from God, and since he is the One that saves us, we will indeed have 'faith completed" as its a one time deal to place faith in Christ and get saved![quote/]

Repentance- Some say repentance has nothing to do with salvation, some just say it is not supposed to be a part of the Gospel message but only a change of mind about something. LS sees repentance as turning from sin, not a work but an outgrowth of faith.

{quote} it would be the flip side of one placeing their faith in Christ![quote/]



Think both sides do misunderstand/misrepresent the other camp in this issue...

We of "grace" side would say faith alone and grace alone would save us, but that kind of genuine faith would have 'fruits of repentance" in ot, as Calvin said" Faith alone saves, but thatkind of faith will NOT be alone,as good works indeed will follow!"

 

[psalms109:31]

Regeneration starts when we hear the words of Jesus which is Spirit and life, but only those who listen and learn will receive the benefit of the regeneration. Regeneration has start with the working of the Holy Spirit in our hearts.

 

[DHK]

Easy believism is the attempt to obtain a Savior with no real heart for God. a believer is a disciple, a disciple is a believer you cannot have one without the other.

Jesus said to Andrew and Peter, "Follow me and I will make you fishers of men." They were believers but not disciples. Notice the words carefully, "I will make you." They had to become disciples. Every believer does. It is part of the Great Commission. First they get saved, then baptized, and then discipled--"teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you." Paul said in 1Cor.3 that the believers were babes in Christ and could only take milk. They were believers, but not yet adults, fully committed to following Christ. They could not take the meat of God's word that Paul wanted to feed them. They were yet carnal Christians and could not be fed the meat of God's word.

 

[preacher4truth]

since we as baptists would hold that one is saved by the Cross/grace of God done by the atonement of Christ for/on our behalf...

Apostle paul stated believe in your heart, confess that with your mouth, and you SHALL be saved...

isn't it the faith that allows us to access that and be saved, and good works/changed lives etc ALL proceed after that conversion point

isn't one saved immediatly by grace of God, and "Lordship" follows, but does NOT cause one to be saved?

Easy believism embraces a theology that as long as you said a prayer, "asked Jesus into your heart" (an unbiblical man-made phrase) that you are now going to heaven, no matter what you do afterwards, even if you live in sin afterwards, rebellious toward God, (which includes all of the sins of the flesh; drunkeness, adultery, anger, malice, sodomite lifestyle and the such like) whom, by the way Paul says will not inherit the Kingdom of God, and this is true no matter how a person tries to twist it today.

You know, because you said a prayer, you're still going. This is false teaching.

 

[Tom Butler]

Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin.

This is well demonstrated in Acts 17, when Paul preached to the philosophers on Mars Hill.

His message is capsulized in 17:30 ".....God commands all men everywhere to repent."
The response in 17:36 "....and some men believed."

 

[JesusFan]

Easy believism embraces a theology that as long as you said a prayer, "asked Jesus into your heart" (an unbiblical man-made phrase) that you are now going to heaven, no matter what you do afterwards, even if you live in sin afterwards, rebellious toward God, (which includes all of the sins of the flesh; drunkeness, adultery, anger, malice, sodomite lifestyle and the such like) whom, by the way Paul says will not inherit the Kingdpom of God, and this is true no matter how a person tries to twist it today.

You know, because you said a prayer, you're still going. This is false teaching.

Agreed, that IF one has been genuinely saved by the Grace of God, then one will have to be reflecting to some measure.degree that change, as we are really saved and mad anew in Christ...

Question though is just how fast and how much our lives will reflect that change, as wea ll will grow at different stages/seasons!

Think problem is that both sides in this discussion have valid points, in that its indeed true that we are saved by grace/faith alone by God, and that is NOT through keeping/observing the ordinances of the jewish law, that would be "free grace", but also is true that one will reflect that new life in Christ, by becoming more into image of Christ, and changing lifestyles, more under the "lordship" of Christ!

 

[freeatlast]

since we as baptists would hold that one is saved by the Cross/grace of God done by the atonement of Christ for/on our behalf...

Apostle paul stated believe in your heart, confess that with your mouth, and you SHALL be saved...

isn't it the faith that allows us to access that and be saved, and good works/changed lives etc ALL proceed after that conversion point

isn't one saved immediatly by grace of God, and "Lordship" follows, but does NOT cause one to be saved?

Easy believism is a teaching where some claim a person can get saved by just beliving the facts about Jesus. No repentance, no change has to follow the claimed salvation, just believe.

 

[quantumfaith]

Or...

easy believism is to dumb down and water down the message so much that the emphasis is man centered. Do you want to go to heaven? Yes! You don't want to go to hell??? Great! Just ask Jesus into your heart!!! Prayer this prayer... well, brother, you are on your way.

If faith truly is a result of regeneration, then the above is easy to "believe". But Jesus message was so dificult, that only a regenerate heart would accept those words. Faith is hard... that is a faith that hears the full comprehensive gospel message.

Greektim, I get your point about "man centered", but I must confess each time (or most times) I see it employed around here, it is usually pejorative in nature meant to imply someone does not accept or acknowledge the Sovereignty of God. Much is "man centered" such as "this great saviour" and this entire redemption story.

Blessings

 

[DHK]

Easy believism is a teaching where some claim a person can get saved by just beliving the facts about Jesus. No repentance, no change has to follow the claimed salvation, just believe.

Where do you get your definitions from? The street?
It seems that you deny sola fide. That is the doctrine we uphold, contrary to LS advocates.

 

[preacher4truth]

Where do you get your definitions from? The street?
It seems that you deny sola fide. That is the doctrine we uphold, contrary to LS advocates.

LS advocates don't adhere to what you state they adhere to. You're incorrect.

They just happen to know what "sola fide" produces as evidence. In other words, they take in the whole counsel of God on this "sola fide."

So, the LS proponents have a better grasp on sola fide.

Not only this, but you totally misrepresent and assume what LS means.

 

[JesusFan]

Easy believism is a teaching where some claim a person can get saved by just beliving the facts about Jesus. No repentance, no change has to follow the claimed salvation, just believe.

{quote} actually, its the classic reformed position of justification before God...

the person places faith into the work of Christ done on the Cross for them, and receivre His forgivess/pardon/grace and eternal life in Christ...

After that, one WILL indeed reflect they are new creatures in christ, but that proves/confirms it, a result of being saved by god, NOT the cause of it![quote/]

Not "just ' a mental assent to the facts of the Gospel, but a change in heart, ie, repentance and faith in the person and work of Christ!

 

[DHK]

LS advocates don't adhere to what you state they adhere to. You're incorrect.

They just happen to know what "sola fide" produces as evidence. In other words, they take in the whole counsel of God on this "sola fide."

So, the LS proponents have a better grasp on sola fide.

Not only this, but you totally misrepresent and assume what LS means.

1. You don't know what I believe. That is apparent.
2. You slandered me, saying I believe what I don't believe.
3. I do believe in sola fide.
4. LS advocates present "another" gospel, which Gal.1:8 calls accursed.
They have denied the very basics of the simple gospel as presented in 1Cor.15:1-4. I think you would even agree to that. Can you stick to the gospel as presented by Paul in 1Cor.15:1-4 and be saved? or is more required? Please explain.