Politics vs The Kingdom

[JonC]

Strange statements.

Are you saying Jesus was supporting of homosexuality? Are you saying Jesus supported abortion?

Are you saying that Jesus example is to be silent about these and just be a light?

You can't stand against anything, Crawfish. The Church is full of them.

If you are not willing to stand against something, then neither will you stand for something. What lunacy.

Quantrill

No, quite the opposite. I am saying that Christians stand for Christ.

We can see atheists standing against abortion. We see a secular political party standing against abortion. We can even see Christians yoking themselves to secular politics and policies to oppose whatever they feel needs opposing.

But we (Christians) are called to be a Light, not to simply blend in. We stand for Christ and in so doing we stand for life (which is the opposite of abortion but based on Christ rather than any secular ideas).

Are you saying that Jesus stood for homosexuality and abortion since He did not address the secular government under which he was lived?

Are you suggesting Jesus was wrong? Negligent?

Do you think that Jesus should have accepted Satan's deal and became ruler over the secular world rather than remaining obedient to God?

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree with a clarification - that is not being involved in world affairs but in kingdom affairs.

What did Jesus say to the Roman government about abortion? What did Jesus say to the Roman practice of men having relations with younger men and boys?

I think that we should follow Jesus' example. We are not to condemn the world but to be that Light, to concern ourselves with God's Kingdom and not evil worldly powers. Our testimony is not what we stand against but the One for Whom and in Whom we stand.

The anti slavers of England practiced the truth of condemning darkness though, as they put actions to their pronouncements!

 

[Yeshua1]

Strange statements.

Are you saying Jesus was supporting of homosexuality? Are you saying Jesus supported abortion?

Are you saying that Jesus example is to be silent about these and just be a light?

You can't stand against anything, Crawfish. The Church is full of them.

If you are not willing to stand against something, then neither will you stanand at timesd for something. What lunacy.

Quantrill

We must jeep speaking out against moral corruption and degradation, and sometimes ave to get actively involved in political arena, did they not do that to final get slavery banned in Britain and here?

 

[Yeshua1]

No, quite the opposite. I am saying that Christians stand for Christ.

We can see atheists standing against abortion. We see a secular political party standing against abortion. We can even see Christians yoking themselves to secular politics and policies to oppose whatever they feel needs opposing.

But we (Christians) are called to be a Light, not to simply blend in. We stand for Christ and in so doing we stand for life (which is the opposite of abortion but based on Christ rather than any secular ideas).

Are you saying that Jesus stood for homosexuality and abortion since He did not address the secular government under which he was lived?

Are you suggesting Jesus was wrong? Negligent?

Do you think that Jesus should have accepted Satan's deal and became ruler over the secular world rather than remaining obedient to God?

Do you think its either/or then? Show we should not seek to have laws passed that reflect moral laws of God, but just let everything slide?

 

[JonC]

Do you think its either/or then? Show we should not seek to have laws passed that reflect moral laws of God, but just let everything slide?

That is up to the individual to ask.

Do you believe worldly politics is the answer or Jesus? Is it both?

 

[Yeshua1]

That is up to the individual to ask.

Do you believe worldly politics is the answer or Jesus? Is it both?

Think Christians can be light and help to move laws that reflect laws of God!

 

[JonC]

Think Christians can be light and help to move laws that reflect laws of God!

Sure they can - I agree.

Bur Jesus didn't so I do not believe it is appropriate to insist that Christians must become yoked with the world or to include conservative political parties.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sure they can - I agree.

Bur Jesus didn't so I do not believe it is appropriate to insist that Christians must become yoked with the world or to include conservative political parties.

Jesus only focus was on that Cross and securing plan of salvation, but we are commanded to be now salt and light!

 

[JonC]

Jesus only focus was on that Cross and securing plan of salvation, but we are commanded to be now salt and light!

The Disciples did not either. Neither did the NT Church or the early Church. And the ECF's spoke against political involvement.

So why condemn my convictions not to support a political party?

 

[Yeshua1]

The Disciples did not either. Neither did the NT Church or the early Church. And the ECF's spoke against political involvement.

So why condemn my convictions not to support a political party?

Do not need to support any Party, but Christians can and should be involved in all areas of the Culture, including politics!

 

[JonC]

Do not need to support any Party, but Christians can and should be involved in all areas of the Culture, including politics!

If this is true then way was Jesus, the Disciples, and the early church not involved in all areas of the culture to include politics. Were they wrong?

 

[Yeshua1]

If this is true then way was Jesus, the Disciples, and the early church not involved in all areas of the culture to include politics. Were they wrong?

They were under the Romans Empire, not a republic as we have it today!

 

[JonC]

They were under the Romans Empire, not a republic as we have it today!

That is not my point. They did not even suggest Christians needed to be involved in secular culture.

Look, I'm not even saying Christians shouldn't. I am saying that my conscious dictates that I not be involved in politics. So there are two very important things here.

I would never encourage you to abandon the GOP because that is not up to me (that is between you and God). But you, and others, seem to be suggesting that I need to be involved in worldly institutions (in politics) against my conscious.

I do not see your response as being compatible with Paul's theology or with Baptist theology.

 

[Yeshua1]

That is not my point. They did not even suggest Christians needed to be involved in secular culture.

Look, I'm not even saying Christians shouldn't. I am saying that my conscious dictates that I not be involved in politics. So there are two very important things here.

I would never encourage you to abandon the GOP because that is not up to me (that is between you and God). But you, and others, seem to be suggesting that I need to be involved in worldly institutions (in politics) against my conscious.

I do not see your response as being compatible with Paul's theology or with Baptist theology.

I am asking were the Christians involved in the political arena to get slavery outlawed wrong, are those trying to get abortion undone?

 

[Yeshua1]

That is not my point. They did not even suggest Christians needed to be involved in secular culture.

Look, I'm not even saying Christians shouldn't. I am saying that my conscious dictates that I not be involved in politics. So there are two very important things here.

I would never encourage you to abandon the GOP because that is not up to me (that is between you and God). But you, and others, seem to be suggesting that I need to be involved in worldly institutions (in politics) against my conscious.

I do not see your response as being compatible with Paul's theology or with Baptist theology.

I am not beholden to any Party, its just that cannot support one into gay agenda and infanticide !

 

[JonC]

I am asking were the Christians involved in the political arena to get slavery outlawed wrong, are those trying to get abortion undone?

It is not for me to say of they were wrong. There were Christians on both sides.

The Dutch Reformed (including black men) favored slavery as a social necessity. George Whitfield supported slavery.


And there were Christians who opposed slavery.

I never said people would be wrong to join a political party. I said I would be wrong to do so as that is against my convictions.

 

[JonC]

I am not beholden to any Party, its just that cannot support one into gay agenda and infanticide !

I do not support abortion or a gay agenda either.

 

[Yeshua1]

It is not for me to say of they were wrong. There were Christians on both sides.

The Dutch Reformed (including black men) favored slavery as a social necessity. George Whitfield supported slavery.


And there were Christians who opposed slavery.

I never said people would be wrong to join a political party. I said I would be wrong to do so as that is against my convictions.

I am just suggesting that this is not either/or issue!

 

[Yeshua1]

It is not for me to say of they were wrong. There were Christians on both sides.

The Dutch Reformed (including black men) favored slavery as a social necessity. George Whitfield supported slavery.


And there were Christians who opposed slavery.

I never said people would be wrong to join a political party. I said I would be wrong to do so as that is against my convictions.

Those for slavery for any reason were in the wrong!

 

[JonC]

I am just suggesting that this is not either/or issue!

It depends on the person. Paul tells us to obey our conscience. If I am convicted it is wrong then for me it would be a sin.

Do it can easily be either/ or (unless Paul was wrong).