Politics vs The Kingdom

[JonC]

I hear people say all the time how the GOP has failed to make changes to end abortion. Couldnt be further from the truth.

What changes did the GOP make to end abortion? They had all the power for awhile. They did make changes to regulate and alter abortion laws. But it is not true that they made changes to end abortion.

The main question (and the determining factor regarding entanglement) is who got the credit for changes the GOP has made? To whom did the GOP attribute any significant accomplishments? Did they glorify God, or the GOP?

 

[Revmitchell]

What changes did the GOP make to end abortion? They had all the power for awhile. They did make changes to regulate and alter abortion laws. But it is not true that they made changes to end abortion.

The main question (and the determining factor regarding entanglement) is who got the credit for changes the GOP has made? To whom did the GOP attribute any significant accomplishments? Did they glorify God, or the GOP?

Making those changes goes a long ways to end abortion. How many lives were saved as a result? We will never know this side of heaven. Those efforts shouldnt be dismissed or minimized.

Getting enough judges and the right case before the supreme court is not as simple as you have made it out to be.

With that said im not a fan of the gop. I think they are just as corrupt as the dnc minus a few to include Trump. But there has been lots of reasonable work done toward abortion.

 

[JonC]

Making those changes goes a long ways to end abortion. How many lives were saved as a result? We will never know this side of heaven. Those efforts shouldnt be dismissed or minimized.

Getting enough judges and the right case before the supreme court is not as simple as you have made it out to be.

With that said im not a fan of the gop. I think they are just as corrupt as the dnc minus a few to include Trump. But there has been lots of reasonable work done toward abortion.

I agree the justices are not a simple matter. My point is that since 1970 the Supreme Court was composted mostly of justices appointed by Republican Presidents.

That said, I am not trying to dismiss anyone's efforts. I praise God we have Christian politicians and Christians in seats of power.

I am a bit of a pessimist (I believe the world will become more corrupt, not less, as time goes on). We can say changes may have saved lives, but we would be saying this as dismembered babies are tossed out as trash.

Anyway, I have been explaining my convictions - not judging you or anyone else on theirs. I would love to compare ideas and perhaps get to know a little of other people's views. For me, I just cannot support a political system any more because I have stopped believing that politics is the answer (and started believing it is just another worldly power).

 

[SGO]

The reason I post my beliefs because that is the purpose of the board.

If you are offended by people's beliefs then this is simply not the place for you (and since you agreed to the terms of the Baptist Board to become a member that opinion may call into question your character).

This board was designed as a place where Christians could come together and learn about each other (edification) and for fellowship. As such, members are encouraged to post and explain their views and beliefs.

People of a "weaker faith" who believe that such discussions "destroy" them really have no business being on a public forum.

As my conviction that the Church and Christians rather than the GOP is the vehicle for spiritual change is something that you cannot emotionally handle, something that does you damage, you probably should never have joined an online Christian forum.

You also need to remember that not only is this a Christian forum, but this is a Baptist forum. So "Christian liberty" is something that is supported and encouraged rather than repressed. This is an appropriate forum for me to express my conviction that I will most likely not vote for a party that has appointed the majority of justices since 1970 and has at times controlled every branch yet did not or could not stop abortion. Since that makes you feel emotionally or spiritually damaged you most likely should leave and spend time in a church maturing spiritually so that you can withstand people who hold different views prior to joining another forum.

Today in the sermon our pastor more or less said what you said.
We should love other people and not trust so much in institutions (my paraphrase).

So I was wrong.

"People of a "weaker faith" who believe that such discussions "destroy" them really have no business being on a public forum."

So you are telling me to get off?

 

[JonC]

Today in the sermon our pastor more or less said what you said.
We should love other people and not trust so much in institutions (my paraphrase).

So I was wrong.

"People of a "weaker faith" who believe that such discussions "destroy" them really have no business being on a public forum."

So you are telling me to get off?

No, I am saying have a faith that no man can destroy.

There are some people, especially new believers, who need to shy away from debates to first work through their faith. I am not saying this is you.

But if me posting my convictions could damage your faith then perhaps you should should concentrate on your faith before engaging the beliefs of others.

 

[SGO]

No, I am saying have a faith that no man can destroy.

There are some people, especially new believers, who need to shy away from debates to first work through their faith. I am not saying this is you.

But if me posting my convictions could damage your faith then perhaps you should should concentrate on your faith before engaging the beliefs of others.

That to me means stay off the forum.


You advocate not getting entangled and actually I have thought a while on that.
The missionary Jim Elliot was of a similar mind.

I had looked to you as somewhat of an authority but you lack patience with stubborn ignoramuses like me.

We really haven't defined what entangled means.
You quoted the scripture of the soldier but there was no definition.

So now if you spend a long some time loving your neighbor but he ends up telling you he doesn't agree with your position
and gives you a few reasons that frustrate you, are you going to tell him stay out of your neighborhood until he comes around to your way of thinking?

I cannot see how casting a vote by mail or in a booth entangles a person in politics, unless of course, the person is obsessed by the decision making process.

 

[Logos1560]

What changes did the GOP make to end abortion? They had all the power for awhile.

They did not have all the power. There was not enough Republican Senators to overcome any Democrat filibuster in the Senate. There have been a number of bills that Republicans wanted to pass that were not permitted to come up for a vote because Republicans did not have the 60 votes needed.

 

[Benjamin]

People of a "weaker faith" who believe that such discussions "destroy" them really have no business being on a public forum.

IOWs, if you're a sensitive puppy don't be thinking your going to jump in with the big dogs and take away their bone?

 

[JonC]

That to me means stay off the forum.


You advocate not getting entangled and actually I have thought a while on that.
The missionary Jim Elliot was of a similar mind.

I had looked to you as somewhat of an authority but you lack patience with stubborn ignoramuses like me.

We really haven't defined what entangled means.
You quoted the scripture of the soldier but there was no definition.

So now if you spend a long some time loving your neighbor but he ends up telling you he doesn't agree with your position
and gives you a few reasons that frustrate you, are you going to tell him stay out of your neighborhood until he comes around to your way of thinking?

I cannot see how casting a vote by mail or in a booth entangles a person in politics, unless of course, the person is obsessed by the decision making process.

First, it does not matter what my words mean to you. It matters what they mean and each of us are the only ones qualified to say what we mean.

Second, I never advocated not voting. I said that I will not vote and I explained why. I never advocated, nor would I advocate, others follow my lead.

I told you, I am a Baptist. We follow Christ and allow for Christian liberty (this is a part of what it means to be Baptist). Follow Christ - not me.

 

[SGO]

Some of President Trump's efforts to end abortion:
Donald Trump’s Pro-Life Achievements (2016-2020)

 

[SGO]

First, it does not matter what my words mean to you. It matters what they mean and each of us are the only ones qualified to say what we mean.

Second, I never advocated not voting. I said that I will not vote and I explained why. I never advocated, nor would I advocate, others follow my lead.

I told you, I am a Baptist. We follow Christ and allow for Christian liberty (this is a part of what it means to be Baptist). Follow Christ - not me.

Please explain to me how you allow for Christian liberty by implying I should not post on this forum.

 

[JonC]

They did not have all the power. There was not enough Republican Senators to overcome any Democrat filibuster in the Senate. There have been a number of bills that Republicans wanted to pass that were not permitted to come up for a vote because Republicans did not have the 60 votes needed.

This is not exactly accurate.

They could have changed the rules if the lives of those murdered children was worth it. But it would have been politically dangerous (the Dems did it anyway, which paved the way to nominate Barrett....what comes around goes around).

Has the GOP ever given credit to God for political successes? Do they have a clear presentation of the gospel?

I ask because the Bible does not have Jesus saying "whoever is against abortion is with me" but I do see where He says "whosoever is not with me is against me".

What is the GOP platform on the Gospel of Christ? Is the GOP "with Christ"?

 

[JonC]

Please explain to me how you allow for Christian liberty by implying I should not post on this forum.

I did not imply.

I stated that if you were not mature enough to discuss ideas with other Christians without being "destroyed" then you should refrain from doing so until you have a mature faith.

Christian faith is not such a weak and meaningless thing that someone not voting would destroy it.

But that is advise.

Discussion boards are not good, IMHO, for people with such a weak faith as to be destroyed by the political convictions of other people.

 

[JonC]

IOWs, if you're a sensitive puppy don't be thinking your going to jump in with the big dogs and take away their bone?

Yep. It's the barking that scares away the puppies. Rarely ever comes to biting.

 

[SGO]

It's your statements that hurt.

"Yep. It's the barking that scares away the puppies. Rarely ever comes to biting."

Here you are explaining why you do not want to be entangled in "politics", "my two cents", yet you have become entangled and resorted to veiled threats.
"Get your act together you tell me" and "stay away from my lofty approach if you can't handle it."

You are supposed to be a model but cannot take criticism from a little dog.

 

[JonC]

It's your statements that hurt.

"Yep. It's the barking that scares away the puppies. Rarely ever comes to biting."

Here you are explaining why you do not want to be entangled in "politics", "my two cents", yet you have become entangled and resorted to veiled threats.
"Get your act together you tell me" and "stay away from my lofty approach if you can't handle it."

You are supposed to be a model but cannot take criticism from a little dog.

I can see how my saying "Get your act together you tell me" and "stay away from my lofty approach if you can't handle it" could be hurtful.

Of course. I never said that, so while I empathize with you for having your feelings hurt I can assure you it has nothing to do with the meaning of my posts.

That you see my statement explaining that I am convicted not to support a political party, my reason why, and that I am not only non-judgmental towards Christians who are involved in politics but praise God Christians are as somehow offensive is telling. This is such a minor issue I would hate to see how you would handle a major disagreement (like the fact I do not hold the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement as the most accurate view, for example).

And my comment that if, as you say, my voicing my own personal conviction not to support a political party "destroys you" then this is not a healthy place for you is a fact - not a threat.

You are more than welcome to stay (provided you do not prove to be a troll). But you should not expect people to refrain from discussing their views on a discussion board because anything that does not "tickle your ears" may "destroy" you.

Christian faith is in no way that fragile a thing.

 

[SGO]

OK. Here is what you did say exactly:

And my comment that if, as you say, my voicing my own personal conviction not to support a political party "destroys you" then this is not a healthy place for you is a fact - not a threat. #76

Yep. It's the barking that scares away the puppies. Rarely ever comes to biting. #74

I stated that if you were not mature enough to discuss ideas with other Christians without being "destroyed" then you should refrain from doing so until you have a mature faith. #73

First, it does not matter what my words mean to you. It matters what they mean and each of us are the only ones qualified to say what we mean.
#69
I told you, I am a Baptist. We follow Christ and allow for Christian liberty (this is a part of what it means to be Baptist). Follow Christ - not me.
#69

But if me posting my convictions could damage your faith then perhaps you should should concentrate on your faith before engaging the beliefs of others. #65

People of a "weaker faith" who believe that such discussions "destroy" them really have no business being on a public forum. #58

If you are offended by people's beliefs then this is simply not the place for you (and since you agreed to the terms of the Baptist Board to become a member that opinion may call into question your character). #58

In fact, Paul teaches that we are to respect differences in conscience and not persuade others to our views. #47

I did not join this forum to persuade people to my way of thinking. #47

I could not vote without entanglement. #41


That's my two cents, anyway. I believe the scope of our responsibility are those God places in our path. #39


You are like the lawyer that picks on my weak points and does not answer other points.

I asked you about half a dozen questions in which you chose to be unresponsive.

Do you not see how some of your statements could be hurtful, especially for someone who claims to have the love of Christ?

I am a Christian but have enough self knowledge to know I am still a big sinner without much love.

For someone that avows being involved in the political process why you have spent so much time on a political thread?

C'mon, Moderator, pick me apart some more.

 

[Yeshua1]

Mine too. The Church.

I do not judge other people what they do. That said, I will live out my convictions.

Right now it is to cut entanglement with the affairs of the world.

We should be involved in world affairs in the sense that we can be salt and light in the darkness of this current culture!

 

[JonC]

We should be involved in world affairs in the sense that we can be salt and light in the darkness of this current culture!

I agree with a clarification - that is not being involved in world affairs but in kingdom affairs.

What did Jesus say to the Roman government about abortion? What did Jesus say to the Roman practice of men having relations with younger men and boys?

I think that we should follow Jesus' example. We are not to condemn the world but to be that Light, to concern ourselves with God's Kingdom and not evil worldly powers. Our testimony is not what we stand against but the One for Whom and in Whom we stand.

 

[Quantrill]

I agree with a clarification - that is not being involved in world affairs but in kingdom affairs.

What did Jesus say to the Roman government about abortion? What did Jesus say to the Roman practice of men having relations with younger men and boys?

I think that we should follow Jesus' example. We are not to condemn the world but to be that Light, to concern ourselves with God's Kingdom and not evil worldly powers. Our testimony is not what we stand against but the One for Whom and in Whom we stand.

Strange statements.

Are you saying Jesus was supporting of homosexuality? Are you saying Jesus supported abortion?

Are you saying that Jesus example is to be silent about these and just be a light?

You can't stand against anything, Crawfish. The Church is full of them.

If you are not willing to stand against something, then neither will you stand for something. What lunacy.

Quantrill