Poll- Do babies that die go to hell?

[OldRegular]

Albert Mohler wrote the following after the Tsunami hit South Asia. I think he does a good job of addressing a difficult issue! I have posted this before!

WEDNESDAY • January 5, 2005

In the Shadow of Death–The Little Ones Are Safe With Jesus

The photographs and images are now seared into our consciousness. One of the most troubling aspects of the disaster in South Asia is the death of infants and young children. Moving at the speed of a jetliner, the walls of water fell on the young and the old alike–and so many of the youngest were simply swept away.
The death of the little ones poses anguished questions that reach to the depth of Christian faith. What happened to these young victims after death? Did they go to Heaven or to Hell?

That question is too pastorally loaded to be left hanging, only to be found at the end of this article. I am convinced that those who die in infancy and early childhood–along with the severely cognitively impaired–go to Heaven when they die. That is quite a claim, but it stands within the mainstream of orthodox Christian theology throughout the centuries, and I believe it is biblically and theologically sustainable.

In fact, I am hard pressed to imagine how any other answer can be given.
This is a question of emotional urgency for grieving parents, and it is a stone of stumbling for some who jump to hasty theological conclusions. The scope of the problem is huge, for untold millions of human beings have died at the earliest ages. Infant mortality still stands at several million babies a year. In the developing world, disease, famine, and abandonment take a heavy toll. Even in the most highly developed nations, armed with the latest medical technologies, thousands of infants die each year.

//snip//

Keep those words firmly in mind as you contemplate this great and often troubling question. The little ones are safe with Jesus.

http://www.albertmohler.com/2005/01/05/in-the-shadow-of-death-the-little-ones-are-safe-with-jesus/

 

[Tom Butler]

The baby died that Bathsheba had with David.....what was David's response to that baby's death? There is your answer.

Exactly. II Samuel 12:23

 

[Iconoclast]

Winman,

if you had opened up the 1689 confession of faith....you would have seen how the scriptures addressed this question in a way that cannot be improved upon;

1. Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace. ( Romans 8:30; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:10, 11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14; Ephesians 2:1-6; Acts 26:18; Ephesians 1:17, 18; Ezekiel 36:26; Deuteronomy 30:6; Ezekiel 36:27; Ephesians 1:19; Psalm 110:3; Song of Solomon 1:4 )

2. This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, nor from any power or agency in the creature, being wholly passive therein, being dead in sins and trespasses, until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit; he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it, and that by no less power than that which raised up Christ from the dead. ( 2 Timothy 1:9; Ephesians 2:8; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:5; John 5:25; Ephesians 1:19, 20 )

3. Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word. ( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )4. Others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet not being effectually drawn by the Father, they neither will nor can truly come to Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men that receive not the Christian religion be saved; be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature and the law of that religion they do profess. ( Matthew 22:14; Matthew 13:20, 21; Hebrews 6:4, 5; John 6:44, 45, 65; 1 John 2:24, 25; Acts 4:12; John 4:22; John 17:3 )

 

[Winman]

Winman,

if you had opened up the 1689 confession of faith....you would have seen how the scriptures addressed this question in a way that cannot be improved upon;

1. Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace. ( Romans 8:30; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:10, 11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14; Ephesians 2:1-6; Acts 26:18; Ephesians 1:17, 18; Ezekiel 36:26; Deuteronomy 30:6; Ezekiel 36:27; Ephesians 1:19; Psalm 110:3; Song of Solomon 1:4 )

2. This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, nor from any power or agency in the creature, being wholly passive therein, being dead in sins and trespasses, until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit; he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it, and that by no less power than that which raised up Christ from the dead. ( 2 Timothy 1:9; Ephesians 2:8; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:5; John 5:25; Ephesians 1:19, 20 )

3. Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word. ( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )4. Others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet not being effectually drawn by the Father, they neither will nor can truly come to Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men that receive not the Christian religion be saved; be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature and the law of that religion they do profess. ( Matthew 22:14; Matthew 13:20, 21; Hebrews 6:4, 5; John 6:44, 45, 65; 1 John 2:24, 25; Acts 4:12; John 4:22; John 17:3 )

Iconoclast, I did not ask this question because I did not know the answer, I asked this question to see what other people believed.

Reading without comprehension is no better than being completely illiterate.

 

[OldRegular]

Exactly. II Samuel 12:23

Thanks Tom and Jedi Knight . I had forgotten that Scripture.

 

[Greektim]

They go to Heaven because God is JUST and would not punish a baby that had no choice. WinMan often confuses Hyper Calvinism with Biblical Calvinism and there are no comparisons, but in WinMan's world of not reading books and remaining in ignorance, WinMan has failed to see that it is the Hyper's that say God has created people to be evil and determines and will's a person to go to Hell. Biblical Calvinists do not believe so.

So as a Calvinist, choice is the issue??? This is not consistent calvinism.

I stand by the logic that the same criteria that applies to children and adults in God's unconditional election also applies to babies... it is based on his unconditional free choice based on his good pleasure. Therefore... well you figure out the result. I put #3 though it could be worded better of course.

 

[Greektim]

Exactly. II Samuel 12:23

Come on guys... that passage is obviously referring to the grave... not the after life. Jews and the OT didn't talk about the afterlife like neo-platonic western Christians do. There was life, death, and resurrection life in the world. They didn't care about heaven. Plato has screwed evangelicalism.

 

[percho]

Fifty days from the morrow after the Sabbath following the death of Christ, Peter said that on that very day David was both dead and buried and that being David was speaking of the Christ and not himself in that his soul would not be left in Hades I assume that meant the soul of David was still in Hades on that day, therefore where was the baby of David and Bathsheba?

 

[evenifigoalone]

I've always been told and believed the answer to this was something along the lines of, babies go to heaven because they aren't even old enough to know what the gospel is, much less accept it.

 

[Winman]

How is it silly? To say that the elect go to heaven and the non-elect go to hell is stating the obvious. I'm just trying to say that a better way to phrase your 3rd option would be to say, "3. Some go to heaven and some go to hell" or "3. Some are elect some aren't."

As I said, you are only allowed one short line in a poll question, so you cannot go into detail. What I wrote is not much different from what Iconoclast pasted here;

3. Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word. ( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )4. Others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet not being effectually drawn by the Father, they neither will nor can truly come to Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men that receive not the Christian religion be saved; be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature and the law of that religion they do profess. ( Matthew 22:14; Matthew 13:20, 21; Hebrews 6:4, 5; John 6:44, 45, 65; 1 John 2:24, 25; Acts 4:12; John 4:22; John 17:3 )

Basically, all this is saying is elect infants that die go to heaven, and non-elect infants that die do not.

Would you ridicule your Calvinist creeds as you do me for stating the obvious?

If anything, I said the same thing in FAR less words.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I see from the poll results at this point there are those who believe that some babies who die go to hell as they were not of the elect. Here, again, is another example of Calvinists making God into a monster.

Calvinists continue to convince me they are wrong!

 

[RLBosley]

As I said, you are only allowed one short line in a poll question, so you cannot go into detail. What I wrote is not much different from what Iconoclast pasted here;

I don't think my phrases were much longer but fair enough.

Basically, all this is saying is elect infants that die go to heaven, and non-elect infants that die do not.

Would you ridicule your Calvinist creeds as you do me for stating the obvious?

If anything, I said the same thing in FAR less words.

First, I never ridiculed you. I was trying to give you some input on what I thought of the poll options. There really was no ridicule. If you saw ridicule then I apologize for giving you that impression.

Second, regarding the confession. I do think it is stating the obvious but in this case that is more appropriate since the purpose of a confession is to be a summary of beliefs, even of the obvious ones.

 

[Winman]

I don't think my phrases were much longer but fair enough.



First, I never ridiculed you. I was trying to give you some input on what I thought of the poll options. There really was no ridicule. If you saw ridicule then I apologize for giving you that impression.

Second, regarding the confession. I do think it is stating the obvious but in this case that is more appropriate since the purpose of a confession is to be a summary of beliefs, even of the obvious ones.

Some folks believe that some babies are born elect for whatever reasons and would therefore go to heaven if they died, and believe that some babies are born non-elect and would therefore go to hell if they died. I tried to provide a place to vote for these folks, with as few words as possible, as that is all you are allowed.

And yes, I took it as ridicule because you simply nit-picked my poll. You do not nit-pick Calvinist confessions that also state the obvious.

And I still don't know what you believe, you chose "other", but you did not explain what you believe.

 

[Winman]

I see from the poll results at this point there are those who believe that some babies who die go to hell as they were not of the elect. Here, again, is another example of Calvinists making God into a monster.

Calvinists continue to convince me they are wrong!

That is not the point of the poll, the poll is simply to see what folks here believe.

 

[RLBosley]

Some folks believe that some babies are born elect for whatever reasons and would therefore go to heaven if they died, and believe that some babies are born non-elect and would therefore go to hell if they died. I tried to provide a place to vote for these folks, with as few words as possible, as that is all you are allowed.

OK

And yes, I took it as ridicule because you simply nit-picked my poll. You do not nit-pick Calvinist confessions that also state the obvious.

Well it wasn't.

And I still don't know what you believe, you chose "other", but you did not explain what you believe.

I said, "I don't know."

 

[Iconoclast]

So as a Calvinist, choice is the issue??? This is not consistent calvinism.

I stand by the logic that the same criteria that applies to children and adults in God's unconditional election also applies to babies... it is based on his unconditional free choice based on his good pleasure. Therefore... well you figure out the result. I put #3 though it could be worded better of course.

You are most certainly correct sir:thumbsup::wavey::thumbsup:

 

[Iconoclast]

I see from the poll results at this point there are those who believe that some babies who die go to hell as they were not of the elect. Here, again, is another example of Calvinists making God into a monster.

Calvinists continue to convince me they are wrong!

Your twist on what has been said demonstrates a lack of trust in the biblical God.

Are you presuming and stating that if God does not do exactly like what you think he should do than he should not be the object of our worship and praise?

 

[Iconoclast]

Winman

What I wrote is not much different from what Iconoclast pasted here;

And yet it is different indeed

Quote:
3. Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word. ( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

Some folks believe that some babies are born elect for whatever reasons

No..... some folks believe that a Holy God has elected a multitude of persons in His Son for His most Holy and wise purposes. This election does not depend on human wisdom or the lack thereof, but on God's Holy purpose alone.

Our feelings or thoughts on this which are flawed do not in anyway dictate to God what he alone has determined is Most Holy and wise.

The words written in the confession of faith leave it entirely in the hands of God which is where it belongs.

Any other answer cannot be supported biblically. The only reason that other "ideas" are offered is many are deficient in their understanding of the biblical salvation as if it depended on man and not upon God.

These false ideas are in place because of a defective view of the fall and mans condition.

 

[Winman]

Winman


And yet it is different indeed

No..... some folks believe that a Holy God has elected a multitude of persons in His Son for His most Holy and wise purposes. This election does not depend on human wisdom or the lack thereof, but on God's Holy purpose alone.

Our feelings or thoughts on this which are flawed do not in anyway dictate to God what he alone has determined is Most Holy and wise.

The words written in the confession of faith leave it entirely in the hands of God which is where it belongs.

Any other answer cannot be supported biblically. The only reason that other "ideas" are offered is many are deficient in their understanding of the biblical salvation as if it depended on man and not upon God.

These false ideas are in place because of a defective view of the fall and mans condition.

Again, reading without comprehension is no different than being illiterate.

Give it up dude.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Your twist on what has been said demonstrates a lack of trust in the biblical God.

Are you presuming and stating that if God does not do exactly like what you think he should do than he should not be the object of our worship and praise?

I am presuming that the Biblical God desires that none be lost.

Are you presuming and that if God does not do exactly as you like, save some and condemn others, even babies, that he is not worthy of worship and praise?