pray obama fails?

[TCGreek]

Calling God "wild" does not become right, just, or respectful just because you add the word "Holy" to it.

Do you allow for metaphoric meanings?

If your God can be tamed, then he's not the God of Scripture.

But if your God cannot be tamed, then there's a holy wild to God.

 

[Revmitchell]

Do you allow for metaphoric meanings?

If your God can be tamed, then he's not the God of Scripture.

But if your God cannot be tamed, then there's a holy wild to God.

Calling God wild places mans standard as the measuring stick. It is irreverent, disrespectful, and ungodly.

 

[Alcott]

==I'm not sure what you mean by that. My statement is based on Scripture and therefore stands without need of further comment. If you believe history is out of God's control then you are unorthodox in your beliefs.

Then consider me as you say, as long as it's known that "history is out of God's control" means he doesn't control it, rather than he can't. I don't think the Roman church controlling every nation and kingdom in central and western Europe for 1000 years was forced by God, nor everyone tortured and burned at the stake who opposed it, nor millions of natives in the Americas wiped out by diseases against which they had no immunity,....

 

[LadyEagle]

We will pray that God would change President Obama's mind and heart on issues of crucial moral concern. May God change his heart and open his eyes to see abortion as the murder of the innocent unborn, to see marriage as an institution to be defended, and to see a host of issues in a new light. We must pray this from this day until the day he leaves office. God is sovereign, after all

Amen!

I pray Obama's plans for abortion and legalizing gay*marriage will fail.

 

[TCGreek]

Calling God wild places mans standard as the measuring stick. It is irreverent, disrespectful, and ungodly.

And we can agree to disagree.

God bless.

 

[THEOLDMAN]

I would not put it this way - is this an idea from that guy who likes to beat drums in the woods like the New Agers?

God is not wild; Jesus is not wild. Wildness connotes being uncivilized, out of control, and primitive. God is strong and mighty but not wild. I think being wild is part of the fallen nature.

John the Baptist- whom Jesus called the greatest man to ever walk the face of the earth , was, according to the gospel, a "WILDMAN".

 

[annsni]

Then consider me as you say, as long as it's known that "history is out of God's control" means he doesn't control it, rather than he can't. I don't think the Roman church controlling every nation and kingdom in central and western Europe for 1000 years was forced by God, nor everyone tortured and burned at the stake who opposed it, nor millions of natives in the Americas wiped out by diseases against which they had no immunity,....

Romans 13:1-4 says "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer."

 

[preachinjesus]

I will let Barak Obama answer your questions himself...all from http://falsani.blogspot.com/2008/04/barack-obama-2004-god-factor-interview.html...ETA - this interview was done in 2004, I think.

Thanks for the link!:thumbsup:

I'll stand by suggestion that stating that there are more than one way to Heaven isn't a condition of salvation or that salvation is conditional upon it. While it is heterodoxy it doesn't appear in the NT as a disqualifier of one's Christianity.

Also I'll submit that every person checking out President Obama's positions on these matters should do the man the respectful service of reading his own words in his two books he authored.

I don't like his positions on a great number of matters, but I will continue to support and pray for him daily. I fully respect him as I do all other people in this world and hope God's best for him.

Finally I will repeat my biggest question to this point:
Who are we to judge this man's salvation from such a distance that we have from seeing his personal life? How does that line up with the NT teaching?

I'd like an honest answer.

 

[webdog]

Finally I will repeat my biggest question to this point:
Who are we to judge this man's salvation from such a distance that we have from seeing his personal life? How does that line up with the NT teaching?

I'd like an honest answer.

In his own words he has said Jesus is not the only way. If he believes this (and I don't see why he wouldn't, consider he said it), he does not have a faith that saves. Period.

 

[Revmitchell]

Thanks for the link!:thumbsup:

I'll stand by suggestion that stating that there are more than one way to Heaven isn't a condition of salvation or that salvation is conditional upon it. While it is heterodoxy it doesn't appear in the NT as a disqualifier of one's Christianity.

Also I'll submit that every person checking out President Obama's positions on these matters should do the man the respectful service of reading his own words in his two books he authored.

I don't like his positions on a great number of matters, but I will continue to support and pray for him daily. I fully respect him as I do all other people in this world and hope God's best for him.

Finally I will repeat my biggest question to this point:
Who are we to judge this man's salvation from such a distance that we have from seeing his personal life? How does that line up with the NT teaching?

I'd like an honest answer.

No you wouldn't. It has been answered time and again on this site in many threads by many people. Obama's view is a disqualifier for there is but one way to heaven. Jesus is the only way and to believe otherwise shows shows a lack of understanding of what it is we need to be saved. You cannot believe that the blood of Christ alone saves and then also believe that there are other ways. There is no way to line that up. Something is being misrepresented. Base don his own words we can then take them to scripture the single and only standard and measure them. When his own words do not line up with scripture then it is scripture that judges him not anyone else. And scripture shows he is lost.

 

[annsni]

Thanks for the link!:thumbsup:

I'll stand by suggestion that stating that there are more than one way to Heaven isn't a condition of salvation or that salvation is conditional upon it. While it is heterodoxy it doesn't appear in the NT as a disqualifier of one's Christianity.

Also I'll submit that every person checking out President Obama's positions on these matters should do the man the respectful service of reading his own words in his two books he authored.

I don't like his positions on a great number of matters, but I will continue to support and pray for him daily. I fully respect him as I do all other people in this world and hope God's best for him.

Finally I will repeat my biggest question to this point:
Who are we to judge this man's salvation from such a distance that we have from seeing his personal life? How does that line up with the NT teaching?

I'd like an honest answer.

He did not say that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins. He said "Jesus is an historical figure for me, and he’s also a bridge between God and man, in the Christian faith, and one that I think is powerful precisely because he serves as that means of us reaching something higher. And he’s also a wonderful teacher. I think it’s important for all of us, of whatever faith, to have teachers in the flesh and also teachers in history."

He believes sin is falling short of his OWN standards.

He does not believe in a heaven or a hell - so I don't understand the being saved part. He doesn't believe that God would send people to hell - so what is the beautiful salvation for? Why did Jesus die if God won't send people to hell?

Just what Jesus does he trust and what does he trust Him for? He doesn't need salvation because he only sins if he falls short of his own standards. But God won't send him to hell for that. I don't see anything remotely Biblical in that belief, honestly. Even my own children when they were saved at 4 and 5 (4 kids all saved at that age) knew that they were going to hell but Jesus died for their sins and to have a relationship with them. That they need a Savior and they wanted Jesus in their lives. But a 40 something year old man doesn't believe that. So how can he be a Christian?

 

[JustChristian]

No you wouldn't. It has been answered time and again on this site in many threads by many people. Obama's view is a disqualifier for there is but one way to heaven. Jesus is the only way and to believe otherwise shows shows a lack of understanding of what it is we need to be saved. You cannot believe that the blood of Christ alone saves and then also believe that there are other ways. There is no way to line that up. Something is being misrepresented. Base don his own words we can then take them to scripture the single and only standard and measure them. When his own words do not line up with scripture then it is scripture that judges him not anyone else. And scripture shows he is lost.

George Bush was the man who claimed that Muslims and Christians worship the same god and that there is more than one way to heaven. I haven't heard Obama say that. I agree that anyone who believes this does not worship the one true God and is not saved.

 

[Alcott]

Romans 13:1-4 says "...."

Quoting well-known scripture does not answer the questions I asked. Was the Roman church in power over most of Europe for 1000 years because God forced it?

 

[gb93433]

In his own words he has said Jesus is not the only way. If he believes this (and I don't see why he wouldn't, consider he said it), he does not have a faith that saves. Period.

I doubt that he is much different on that issue than the majority of Baptists sitting in churches every Sunday. It amazes me how many do not believe Jesus is the only way. They try and explain it rationally.

 

[Nicholas25]

I pray for the spiritual condition of our current president and former President Bush. If they are lost I pray for their salvation according to Gods perfect will. If they are saved, but have gotten out of fellowship with Christ I pray they repent.

 

[annsni]

Quoting well-known scripture does not answer the questions I asked. Was the Roman church in power over most of Europe for 1000 years because God forced it?

Where did anyone say that God forced it? Read the Scriptures again.

 

[Martin]

Then consider me as you say, as long as it's known that "history is out of God's control" means he doesn't control it, rather than he can't. I don't think the Roman church controlling every nation and kingdom in central and western Europe for 1000 years was forced by God, nor everyone tortured and burned at the stake who opposed it, nor millions of natives in the Americas wiped out by diseases against which they had no immunity,....

==I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say. So I will just make several points that I think need to be stressed:

1. What you or I "think" is totally beside the point. Personal opinions are worthy nothing outside of our own skulls. Everything must be backed up with Scripture.

2. Nobody said God forced anything. However God can force whatever He wants to force. God is 100% free to do as He wishes (Ps 135:6, Is 46:10, Ps 103:19, Dan 4:35). So God is not be unjust in anything he "forces" on anyone.

3. God's sovereignty rules over all (Ps 103:19). God rules over all things. So everything that happens in creation happens because God did it or allowed it. No place in Scripture does it say that God will stop bad things from happening. In fact, Scripture is clear that bad things will happen in a fallen world. But nothing happens apart from God causing it or allowing it. Think about Job. Nothing happened to him apart from God allowing it.

4. If God is not sovereign (in control) then you can forget Bible prophecy, eternal security, assurance of salvation, or any other such doctrine. All of those doctrines rest on Biblical truth that God is in control. God's control over all creation is one thing that gave assurance to many Christians who have been persecuted or martyred for the faith.

5. Point of history: Many of the Puritans believed that God used disease to wipe out the Native Americans, who they called savages, so that European Christians could settle in the new world. There is indirect (secondary) evidence that suggests that some Natives believed that the European's God was behind the diseases as well. Interesting, though not part of this conversation/thread.

 

[preachinjesus]

Just what Jesus does he trust and what does he trust Him for? He doesn't need salvation because he only sins if he falls short of his own standards. But God won't send him to hell for that. I don't see anything remotely Biblical in that belief, honestly. Even my own children when they were saved at 4 and 5 (4 kids all saved at that age) knew that they were going to hell but Jesus died for their sins and to have a relationship with them. That they need a Savior and they wanted Jesus in their lives. But a 40 something year old man doesn't believe that. So how can he be a Christian?

I think we can all agree that his answers are probably reflecting how most of our parishioners would reply if given the same interview on any given Sunday.

Of course we didn't elect a theologian-in-chief.

I'll just continue hold my opinion that he is a Christian. Seriously, read his own books and his own words.

We probably have a little bit different view of soteriology and can respectfully disagree.

I am still interested in anyone answering my question:
Who are we (as individuals) to evaulate and judge a man's salvation from such a distance as we hold with President Obama? And I'd like to see Scripture showing where we can evaluate each other's salvation.

Thanks for the reply:thumbs:

 

[annsni]

I think we can all agree that his answers are probably reflecting how most of our parishioners would reply if given the same interview on any given Sunday.

I would hope not. I know in our church, teaching is clear. There is one way to heaven, there is a heaven and a hell, a Satan and demons, good and evil and God's Word is truth.

Of course we didn't elect a theologian-in-chief.

I'll just continue hold my opinion that he is a Christian. Seriously, read his own books and his own words.

We probably have a little bit different view of soteriology and can respectfully disagree.

I am still interested in anyone answering my question:
Who are we (as individuals) to evaulate and judge a man's salvation from such a distance as we hold with President Obama? And I'd like to see Scripture showing where we can evaluate each other's salvation.

Thanks for the reply:thumbs:

Matthew 12:33-37 " "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

 

[Revmitchell]

I think we can all agree that his answers are probably reflecting how most of our parishioners would reply if given the same interview on any given Sunday.

Of course we didn't elect a theologian-in-chief.

That does not make anyone redeemed.