praying = speaking to God

[The Biblicist]

1 Cor. 12:7-11 and 29-31 deal with spiritual gifts in general regardless of the contextual setting. God sovereignly bestows gifts according to his own will not your will regardless if you are at home, church, work, etc.

God does not give all Christians the gift of apostle or tongues regardless of the contextual setting at home, church, work, etc.

However, your whole interpretation contradicts these basic principles in regard to spiritual gifts, how they are obtained and how they are distributed by the Holy Spirit. Your theory falls flat right here at this point and completely contradictions the scriptures in regard to Holy Spirit distribution as well as application of the sign gifts.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Paul is not referring to spiritual gifts as used exclusively in the congregation in the above text but is referring to the DISTRIBUTION OF GIFTS IN GENERAL without any regard to LOCATION.

The words "to another.....to another.....to another" are vain repetition according to your claims that God gives tongues to all Christians.

The words "dividing to every man SEVERALLY AS HE WILL." is nonsense according to your claim that God gives tongues to all Christians.


29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

The Greek text actually contains the Greek word for "no" in every phrase and would read this way:

"not all are apostles; not all are prophets..not all...not all....not all....not all....not all....."

However your claims directly contradict this emphatic denial by Paul that tongues are not given to all Christians.

Paul is talking about the POSSESSION of such gifts not the LOCATION where such gifts are exercised.

Your theories and interpetations are repudiated by Paul in clear and explicit language and in a context of GENERAL distribution and GENERAL possession without any reference to LOCATION.

 

[The Biblicist]

You added the bold..it is not in scriptures anywhere that tongues is a missionary gift for the Jews! Gentiles spoke in tongues!

Paul directly quotes Isaiah 28:11-15 as the MATURE understanding for God's purpose of Tongues.

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 ¶ Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

It does not take a linguistic genius to see that this is directed toward the jews about the promised rest (v. 12) which is Jesus Christ (v. 16).

It does not take a theologion to see tongues are known languages foreign to the Jews (v. 11)

It does not take brilliance to see these tongues are not directed "to God" but "TO THIS PEOPLE" (v. 11) who are unbelieving Israel/Jews and their leadership who live "in Jerusalem" (v. 14).

It does not take anything other than common sense to see this Biblical design for tongues is OUTSIDE the assembly and thus this explicit Biblical design for tongues has nothing to do with tongues in the sanctuary!

This is the MATURE understanding (1 Cor. 14:20) that Paul provides for the Biblical design and thus proper goal for the use of tongues (1 Cor. 14:21-22).

20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 ¶ In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Note the words "yet for all that will THEY NOT HEAR ME" and so tongues are not directed to God but to this people from God and their response is that will not believe.

Note the words "wherefore tongues are for a sign" that is their Biblical purpose whether you accept it or not. They are not given for prayer, praise, or for spirituality but they are given to believers "for a sign" and therefore they are not given to them that "believe" as your view demands. They are given as a sign to the UNBELIEVING JEWISH PEOPLE who are very LEARNED in the Scriptures but very lost.

This design is EXTERNAL TO THE CONGREGATION! Hence, the Biblical purpose of tongues is EXTERNAL to the congregation. This design is not "for believers" their prayer life, their spiritual growth but "TO THEM THAT BELIEVE NOT"!

Your whole position is in direct contradiction to the explicit and ONLY BIBLICAL basis given by Paul for the gift of tongues.

 

[annsni]

Would it not be sign that what Jesus promised them in Acts 1:8 has come to pass?

But if it's "private" it is not for others. So you contradict.

 

[annsni]

Where your crux of error is, Sir..is that you are taking 12-14 out of context. Paul is correcting church worship service. When they gather together. Not everyone is called to speak in tongues in a worship service.

Show me the verse that says that tongues is for every believer.

 

[The Biblicist]

Paul directly quotes Isaiah 28:11-15 as the MATURE understanding for God's purpose of Tongues.

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 ¶ Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

It does not take a linguistic genius to see that this is directed toward the jews about the promised rest (v. 12) which is Jesus Christ (v. 16).

It does not take a theologion to see tongues are known languages foreign to the Jews (v. 11)

It does not take brilliance to see these tongues are not directed "to God" but "TO THIS PEOPLE" (v. 11) who are unbelieving Israel/Jews and their leadership who live "in Jerusalem" (v. 14).

It does not take anything other than common sense to see this Biblical design for tongues is OUTSIDE the assembly and thus this explicit Biblical design for tongues has nothing to do with tongues in the sanctuary!

This is the MATURE understanding (1 Cor. 14:20) that Paul provides for the Biblical design and thus proper goal for the use of tongues (1 Cor. 14:21-22).

20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 ¶ In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Note the words "yet for all that will THEY NOT HEAR ME" and so tongues are not directed to God but to this people from God and their response is that will not believe.

Note the words "wherefore tongues are for a sign" that is their Biblical purpose whether you accept it or not. They are not given for prayer, praise, or for spirituality but they are given to believers "for a sign" and therefore they are not given to them that "believe" as your view demands. They are given as a sign to the UNBELIEVING JEWISH PEOPLE who are very LEARNED in the Scriptures but very lost.

This design is EXTERNAL TO THE CONGREGATION! Hence, the Biblical purpose of tongues is EXTERNAL to the congregation. This design is not "for believers" their prayer life, their spiritual growth but "TO THEM THAT BELIEVE NOT"!

Your whole position is in direct contradiction to the explicit and ONLY BIBLICAL basis given by Paul for the gift of tongues.

Isa. 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

1 Cor. 14:21 ¶ In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Note that these are human languagues that God will use to speak to "this people." Hence, tongues are designed by God to speak to people and it is God speaking to them through the gift of tongues instead of Christians speaking to God.

However, current tongue speakers completely REVERSE the word of God on this point and claim that tongues are given to all Christians to speak to God. When 1 Cor. 14:2 is interpreted by its context it is only when believers use tongues inappropriately is God the sole audiance as no one else hearing them can understand the languages.

 

[awaken]

You asked for proof of people being baptized by the Holy Spirit that did not speak in tongues after. I showed you that and you try to explain it away.

Let's look at passages that deal with the gifts of the Spirit.

Rom 12:4 For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function,
Rom 12:5 so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
Rom 12:6 Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith;
Rom 12:7 if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching;
Rom 12:8 or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness. (NASB)


1Co 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
1Co 12:7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1Co 12:10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Co 12:11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
1Co 12:12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. (NASB)



1Co 12:27 Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it.
1Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.
1Co 12:29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?
1Co 12:30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?
1Co 12:31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way. (NASB)




Your insistence that all who are saved speak in tongues is contrary to Scripture.

In all the threads on this forum...I have always said speaking in tongues has nothing to do with ones salvation.
Consider this...
The three examples of speaking in tongues which are in Acts (day of Pentecost, the household of Cornelius, and the new converts in Ephesus) are the only examples of people speaking in tongues in the entire New Testament. There are a number of other passages in the New Testament which talk about speaking in tongues, but no other passages describe people doing it.


1. In every passage where people spoke in tongues in the book of Acts, notice that every new believer spoke in tongues.

2. In the first two examples of tongues, the purpose was to praise God in the Holy Spirit. In the third example, the new believers "spoke in tongues and prophesied." Those believers might have praised God in tongues based on the other two examples of people praising God in tongues.

Notice that there was not a single example of anyone speaking in tongues for the purpose of sharing the Gospel with foreigners.

3. In the passages in Acts (especially the account of Pentecost and the story of Cornelius), people were speaking to God in tongues. This is what the apostle Paul meant when he said:
"For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God." (1 Corinthians 14:2)

So when people spoke in tongues in the above passages, they were praying directly to God in the Holy Spirit. In other words, the communication was going from earth up to heaven.

Now take a look at another statement that the apostle Paul made:
"He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified." (1 Corinthians 14:5)
Here Paul said that when a person speaks a message in tongues to a church congregation, the message must be interpreted so that the congregation can be edified (i.e. so that the message will benefit them, instruct them, build them up in their faith, etc.). This describes another form of tongues in which a message is delivered from heaven down to earth, which must be interpreted into the local language.

So there are actually two purposes for tongues in the New Testament, which is something that many Christians don't realize. There's a "public" form of tongues for delivering a message from God to a group of people (which must be interpreted into the local language), and there's a "private" form of tongues for speaking to God (praying to Him in the Spirit). Each form of tongues has a different purpose.

 

[Melanie]

All this debate.......it is well known as in so far as I know....God speaks English with a distinct Australian lilt....I told that to a French retreat master and he was so NOT pleased!!!!:tongue3:

 

[awaken]

But if it's "private" it is not for others. So you contradict.

Speaking in tongues is speaking to God..yes or no? 1 Cor. 14:2

 

[awaken]

Show me the verse that says that tongues is for every believer.

I can show you every instance in Acts where speaking in tongues is demonstrated...everyone spoke in tongues. Not just a few! Acts 2, 10, 19.

 

[annsni]

Speaking in tongues is speaking to God..yes or no? 1 Cor. 14:2

If I speak English in the middle of a Russian town where no one understands me, I'm speaking to no one but God and myself - even when I'm not even addressing God. It doesn't mean that when I speak I am just speaking to God and whenever I speak in this tongue that I am only speaking to God. I do not see supported in this passage (must read the whole passage and not rip one verse out of context) that speaking in tongues only speaking to God. We can see that clearly in the text and in the other areas of Scripture that is speaking of tongues.

So no, I do not agree that speaking in tongues is speaking to God by definition.

 

[awaken]

Chapters 11-14 are all about the public worship service not just 1 Cor. 14:12-14. 1 Cor. 14:2 is about the worship service not private talking to God. 1 Cor. 14:15-17 is about the worship service not personal prayer tongues.

However, that does not change God's purpose of tongues (vv. 20-22) whether one is in the public service or outside the public service. There are not TWO different kinds of tongues. 1 Cor. 12:6-11 is speaking about spiritual sign gifts in general as so is 1 Cor. 12:29-30. You just can't make up things and jerk things out of context to suit your subjective experiences.





The gospel is necessary for salvation but the gift of tongues are not! Those sign gifts are said to "follow" but are not inclusive of gospel salvation. They have a designated stated purpose (v. 20; Heb. 2:4) which you completely ignore. That purpose is stated clearly in 1 Cor. 14:20-22 and is used according to that purpose in Acts 2, 10,19, etc. That purpose is LIMITED as both texts speak of it as fulfilled in the past tense and Hebrews 2:3-4 EXCLUDES the writer and readers. 1 Cor. 13:8 demands tongues ceases of itself PRIOR to what shall cause prophecy and knowledge to cease.

Your esctatic utterance has been around for ages and anyone can do it in the right circumstances.




That is false! The vast majority of the New Testament was written by apostles (22 out of 27). The remaining books were primarily written by those under the supervision of an apostle and the very few left were written by New Testament prophets (Eph. 2:20).




Find anyone in Acts 2-6 who did miracles signs and wonders except for apostles?

Find anyone in Acts 6-28 who did miracles that did not first receive laying on of hands by apostles as in Acts 8:14-17. You cannot prove that Ananias in Acts was not one of those sent out in Acts 8 and thus did not have apostolic hands laid upon him.

Find any mention of sign gifts listed in Romans 12 and then look at Romans 1:11 why Paul wanted to come to them. Look at 2 Cor. 12:12 as such MSW were the peculair "sign" of the apostles but your interpretation makes that meaningless, because if all were given signs gifts then it could not be the "sign" of the apostolic office.




Not before the apostles laid hands upon him (Acts 6:4-7).



Not before the apostles laid hands on him (Acts 6:4-7).



This is the same office as in the Old Testament is not assigned among the "sign" gifts but is placed with the Apostles (Eph. 2:20). Hence, the office of prophet is PRE-Pentecostal and has nothing to do with Pentecost.





This text does not explain HOW that would be done only that it would be done. Obviously "ALL" does not refer to all humans as this is not true of lost people. Moreover, this cannot mean that "sign" gifts were given directly to "all" people as that would make 2 Cor. 12:12 and the many instances of sign gifts coming by laying on apostolic hands false and misleading (Acts 19:6; 8:14-17; Rom. 1:11; etc.).

Is speaking to God prayer or not?

 

[annsni]

I can show you every instance in Acts where speaking in tongues is demonstrated...everyone spoke in tongues. Not just a few! Acts 2, 10, 19.

That every believer is to speak in tongues? What verses. Please show me.

 

[awaken]

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Paul is not referring to spiritual gifts as used exclusively in the congregation in the above text but is referring to the DISTRIBUTION OF GIFTS IN GENERAL without any regard to LOCATION.

The words "to another.....to another.....to another" are vain repetition according to your claims that God gives tongues to all Christians.

The words "dividing to every man SEVERALLY AS HE WILL." is nonsense according to your claim that God gives tongues to all Christians.


29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

The Greek text actually contains the Greek word for "no" in every phrase and would read this way:

"not all are apostles; not all are prophets..not all...not all....not all....not all....not all....."

However your claims directly contradict this emphatic denial by Paul that tongues are not given to all Christians.

Paul is talking about the POSSESSION of such gifts not the LOCATION where such gifts are exercised.

Your theories and interpetations are repudiated by Paul in clear and explicit language and in a context of GENERAL distribution and GENERAL possession without any reference to LOCATION.

THis section of scriptures blends the manifestations and the ministries, and points out that not everyone will be energized in the same way at the same time.
Pay close attention to the list...apostles, prophets, teachers etc. are ministries. Tongues, interpretation, miracles etc. are manifestations. This scripture is a summary statement. The Lord distributes to every person, and at any given time he will energize the spiritual gifts and manifestations differently in different people.

Notice in 1 Cor. 12: 7-10 there are two different Greek words, allos and heteros, translated "to another" and " to a different one." They have different meanings, which despite a tendecy to get lost, is to be observed in numerous passages. Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes "another of the same sort", heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a different kind". (Vines Lexicon)

 

[awaken]

That every believer is to speak in tongues? What verses. Please show me.

I showed this in a previous post to someone else, again...

I will start in Acts 1:4-8 where Jesus promises to send the Holy Spirit. He calls it Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Where power would be received.

In Acts 2:1-4 Shows when this happen and what happened. They spoke with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:33 It tells that Jesus received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. (tongues)

Acts 2:38-39 Tells who can receive this promise..even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

In Acts 2 they all spoke in tongues!
In Acts 8 even though it does not say tongues. Simeon saw something manifest in those that received the Holy Spirit (same thing that was promised in Acts 1).
In Acts 10 when they received the Holy Spirit JUST LIKE IN ACTS. It does not say some of them spoke in tongue. The received the same way and manifested the same way as Acts 2. (10:45-47)
In Acts 19:6 "...the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."

This is the only example of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in Acts. Except Paul said he spoke in tongues more than any.
Not to mention Mark 16 ..."those that believe shall speak in new tongues"

 

[The Biblicist]

Is speaking to God prayer or not?

First, this question ignores that tongues are described as far as usage in a variety of ways such as "speaketh" "pray" and "singing" and the list could have extended to any other manner of verbalization.

Second, 1 Cor. 14:2 does not mention "pray" or "prayer" but "speaketh" in general regardless of mode.

Third, in the context of "praying" (1 Cor. 14:16-17) it is being condemned by Paul without understanding by both speaker and hearers. Hence, Paul does not commend the use of tongues as a prayer tongue unto God unless comprehension for both speaker and hearer is provided.

 

[annsni]

I showed this in a previous post to someone else, again...

I will start in Acts 1:4-8 where Jesus promises to send the Holy Spirit. He calls it Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Where power would be received.

In Acts 2:1-4 Shows when this happen and what happened. They spoke with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:33 It tells that Jesus received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. (tongues)

Acts 2:38-39 Tells who can receive this promise..even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

In Acts 2 they all spoke in tongues!
In Acts 8 even though it does not say tongues. Simeon saw something manifest in those that received the Holy Spirit (same thing that was promised in Acts 1).
In Acts 10 when they received the Holy Spirit JUST LIKE IN ACTS. It does not say some of them spoke in tongue. The received the same way and manifested the same way as Acts 2. (10:45-47)
In Acts 19:6 "...the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."

This is the only example of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit in Acts. Except Paul said he spoke in tongues more than any.

Yes, in Acts, many new believers spoke in tongues. However, we see later on as the church grew, that didn't continue to happen. No where are we told that every believer will speak in tongues and as a matter of fact, we see just the opposite - that God will give the gift to some and not to all. Paul actually tells people to not seek tongues but instead to seek the greater gifts! If every believer was supposed to speak in tongues, they would and Paul would not have said otherwise - and we would have seen that even Paul spoke in tongues when he was saved - but we read nothing of the sort. So no, tongues is not for every believer and I highly doubt that 99% of the tongues practiced today are even real. I think I'll listen to God's Word about the matter.

 

[awaken]

Paul directly quotes Isaiah 28:11-15 as the MATURE understanding for God's purpose of Tongues.

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 ¶ Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

It does not take a linguistic genius to see that this is directed toward the jews about the promised rest (v. 12) which is Jesus Christ (v. 16).

THe rest is speaking to them in stammering lips. THis is the rest refers back to what he said in vs.11.

It does not take a theologion to see tongues are known languages foreign to the Jews (v. 11)

Didn't the Jews understand the tongues in Acts 2?

It does not take brilliance to see these tongues are not directed "to God" but "TO THIS PEOPLE" (v. 11) who are unbelieving Israel/Jews and their leadership who live "in Jerusalem" (v. 14).

the only sign to the unbelieving Jews was the uninterpreted tongues. That is why Paul said tongues in church must be interpreted so the unbelievers would not think it was a sign of judgement.

It does not take anything other than common sense to see this Biblical design for tongues is OUTSIDE the assembly and thus this explicit Biblical design for tongues has nothing to do with tongues in the sanctuary!

Tongues is speaking to God...no way around it according to 1 Cor. 14!

This is the MATURE understanding (1 Cor. 14:20) that Paul provides for the Biblical design and thus proper goal for the use of tongues (1 Cor. 14:21-22).

20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 ¶ In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Note the words "yet for all that will THEY NOT HEAR ME" and so tongues are not directed to God but to this people from God and their response is that will not believe.

Again... "uninterpreted tongues" have been used in Israel's history as a sign to the unbelieving Israelites that God's judgment had come upon them. Paul was quoting a prophecy from Isaiah 28:11-12:
"Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people, to whom he said, "This is the resting place, let the weary rest"; and, "This is the place of repose"-- but they would not listen." (Isaiah 28:11-12)
This prophecy was fulfilled when the Assyrian army swooped down upon Israel speaking a foreign language (an uninterpreted tongue), carrying Israel off into captivity. Paul used an example from Israel's history to show that uninterpreted tongues are sometimes used as a "sign" for unbelievers that judgment has come upon them.

Then Paul pointed out that if an unbeliever enters a church where Christians seem to have lost their minds, the unbeliever wouldn't see this as a sign of impending judgment. This is why Paul said that prophecy is much more beneficial during a church service.

Note the words "wherefore tongues are for a sign" that is their Biblical purpose whether you accept it or not. They are not given for prayer, praise, or for spirituality but they are given to believers "for a sign" and therefore they are not given to them that "believe" as your view demands. They are given as a sign to the UNBELIEVING JEWISH PEOPLE who are very LEARNED in the Scriptures but very lost.

This design is EXTERNAL TO THE CONGREGATION! Hence, the Biblical purpose of tongues is EXTERNAL to the congregation. This design is not "for believers" their prayer life, their spiritual growth but "TO THEM THAT BELIEVE NOT"!

Your whole position is in direct contradiction to the explicit and ONLY BIBLICAL basis given by Paul for the gift of tongues.

I explained my view above..

 

[awaken]

First, this question ignores that tongues are described as far as usage in a variety of ways such as "speaketh" "pray" and "singing" and the list could have extended to any other manner of verbalization.

Second, 1 Cor. 14:2 does not mention "pray" or "prayer" but "speaketh" in general regardless of mode.

Third, in the context of "praying" (1 Cor. 14:16-17) it is being condemned by Paul without understanding by both speaker and hearers. Hence, Paul does not commend the use of tongues as a prayer tongue unto God unless comprehension for both speaker and hearer is provided.

When we speak to God is it considered prayer? Yes or No?

 

[The Biblicist]

THis section of scriptures blends the manifestations and the ministries

That is not true and it is rediculous! It does not "blend" them at all but DISTINGUISHES and DIFFERIANIATES between them. He just got through talking about their distribution (vv. 7-11) and he said "to ANOTHER" distinguishing between people (allos versus heteros) not between manifestations to the same (allos) persons! That is your PURE IMAGINATION in direct contradiction the Spirit inspired Word of God.

Pay close attention to the list...apostles, prophets, teachers etc. are ministries. Tongues, interpretation, miracles etc. are manifestations. This scripture is a summary statement. The Lord distributes to every person, and at any given time he will energize the spiritual gifts and manifestations differently in different people.

It says no such thing but says the very opposite. He does not distribute the same manifestation TO EVERY PERSON at various times but he distributes some things to one that he does not another BECAUSE God has equipped each member for their particular task in the body (vv. 11-27). You don't have any idea what you are talking about.

Notice in 1 Cor. 12: 7-10 there are two different Greek words, allos and heteros, translated "to another" and " to a different one." They have different meanings, which despite a tendecy to get lost, is to be observed in numerous passages. Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes "another of the same sort", heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a different kind". (Vines Lexicon)

You are the one who needs to pay closer attention to the context. That is my point exactly!!! He is not talking about the SAME PERSON obtaining different manifestations at different times but that these gifts are not distributed to the SAME PERSON but to DIFFERENT Person than the previous one mentioned for different reasons due to their different calling in the body (vv. 11-27).

 

[awaken]

Yes, in Acts, many new believers spoke in tongues. However, we see later on as the church grew, that didn't continue to happen. No where are we told that every believer will speak in tongues and as a matter of fact, we see just the opposite - that God will give the gift to some and not to all. Paul actually tells people to not seek tongues but instead to seek the greater gifts! If every believer was supposed to speak in tongues, they would and Paul would not have said otherwise - and we would have seen that even Paul spoke in tongues when he was saved - but we read nothing of the sort. So no, tongues is not for every believer and I highly doubt that 99% of the tongues practiced today are even real. I think I'll listen to God's Word about the matter.

Paul said he spoke in tongues more than all. He fully endorsed the public use of tongues as long as it's done one at a time, and as long as someone receives the interpretation.
He fully endorsed the private use of tongues by saying that if someone speaks publicly in tongues but the interpretation is not given to anyone, then the speaker should sit down and continue to speak quietly to God in tongues.

Not all are called to speak in tongues in the assembly. In Cor. this is what they were trying to do. Paul was trying to correct them!

Not to mention He said "forbid not to speak in tongue"...to believe as most do here..you have to ignore these scriptures.