Praying the Rosary

[Yeshua1]

You don't see it? Let's try and make this easier for you. Here are the words of David...

Psalm 103:21 ---> "Praise the Lord, all his heavenly hosts, you his servants who do his will."

Psalm 148:-12 ---> "Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord from the heavens; praise him in the heights above. Praise him, all his angels; praise him, all his heavenly hosts."



Question for you ---> Who are the "heavenly hosts", the "angels", those "from the heavens" and those "in the heights above"?

If these people are someone other than God, then Scripture records David is clearly communicating between heaven and earth.


Now let's look at the words of our Blessed Lord...


Luke 15:7 ---> "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."

Luke 15:10 ---> "So it is, I tell you, with the angels of God; there is joy among them over one sinner that repents."


The Lord explicitly states the angels and saints (those in heaven with the angels) in heaven are able to rejoice over a sinner repenting here on Earth. Thus, this is only possible if they have been made aware - via God - of that person's (sinner) innermost thoughts. Otherwise, they would not be rejoicing over their repentance. For you cannot rejoice in good news you are not aware of. Our Blessed Lord clearly demonstrates that God enables communication between the Church on Earth and the Church triumphant in heaven.

Nothing said concerning saints, just the Angels, and still no proof that we ask those on heaven to intercede for us, as again, only ONE mediator/intercessor given to us, Jesus Christ!

 

[HankD]

You don't see it? Let's try and make this easier for you. Here are the words of David...

Psalm 103:21 ---> "Praise the Lord, all his heavenly hosts, you his servants who do his will."

Psalm 148:-12 ---> "Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord from the heavens; praise him in the heights above. Praise him, all his angels; praise him, all his heavenly hosts."



Question for you ---> Who are the "heavenly hosts", the "angels", those "from the heavens" and those "in the heights above"?

If these people are someone other than God, then Scripture records David is clearly communicating between heaven and earth.


Now let's look at the words of our Blessed Lord...


Luke 15:7 ---> "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."

Luke 15:10 ---> "So it is, I tell you, with the angels of God; there is joy among them over one sinner that repents."


The Lord explicitly states the angels and saints (those in heaven with the angels) in heaven are able to rejoice over a sinner repenting here on Earth. Thus, this is only possible if they have been made aware - via God - of that person's (sinner) innermost thoughts. Otherwise, they would not be rejoicing over their repentance. For you cannot rejoice in good news you are not aware of. Our Blessed Lord clearly demonstrates that God enables communication between the Church on Earth and the Church triumphant in heaven.

you need to discern the voice of the LORD speaking from the scriptures, the Psalms in particular which was the Hebrew hymn book and not always the human voice of David but the preincarnate Christ, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity (The Logos - Communicator). between heaven and earth via God as you correctly state.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[HankD]

You don't see it? Let's try and make this easier for you. Here are the words of David...

Psalm 103:21 ---> "Praise the Lord, all his heavenly hosts, you his servants who do his will."

Psalm 148:-12 ---> "Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord from the heavens; praise him in the heights above. Praise him, all his angels; praise him, all his heavenly hosts."



Question for you ---> Who are the "heavenly hosts", the "angels", those "from the heavens" and those "in the heights above"?

If these people are someone other than God, then Scripture records David is clearly communicating between heaven and earth.


Now let's look at the words of our Blessed Lord...


Luke 15:7 ---> "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."

Luke 15:10 ---> "So it is, I tell you, with the angels of God; there is joy among them over one sinner that repents."


The Lord explicitly states the angels and saints (those in heaven with the angels) in heaven are able to rejoice over a sinner repenting here on Earth. Thus, this is only possible if they have been made aware - via God - of that person's (sinner) innermost thoughts. Otherwise, they would not be rejoicing over their repentance. For you cannot rejoice in good news you are not aware of. Our Blessed Lord clearly demonstrates that God enables communication between the Church on Earth and the Church triumphant in heaven.

you need to discern the voice of the LORD speaking from the scriptures, the Psalms in particular which was the Hebrew hymn book and not always the human voice of David but the preincarnate Christ, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity (The Logos - Communicator). between heaven and earth via God as you correctly state.

 

[Walpole]

Nothing said concerning saints, just the Angels, and still no proof that we ask those on heaven to intercede for us, as again, only ONE mediator/intercessor given to us, Jesus Christ!

Luke 15:10 ---> "So it is, I tell you, with the angels of God; there is joy among them over one sinner that repents."


Who is in heaven with the angels and God?

 

[Walpole]

you need to discern the voice of the LORD speaking from the scriptures, the Psalms in particular which was the Hebrew hymn book and not always the human voice of David but the preincarnate Christ, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity (The Logos - Communicator). between heaven and earth via God as you correctly state.

There's not too much to discern when the opening line of the Psalm explicitly states whose it is and whose it's author:

Psalm 103:1 "A Psalm of David..."

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

St. Paul's mention of Christ as mediator in his letter to his young bishop St. Timothy is a Christological statement testifying to Christ's unique mediation as the one and only God-man who offered Himself to the Father. (cf. 1 Tim 2:5-6)

However, St. Paul also told the faithful at Galatia that there is at least one other mediator. Unless you believe the Apostle contradicted himself or simply didn't couldn't add, there are multiple meanings and contexts in which the word is used.

Galatians 3:19 --> "Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator."

Here we see the Apostle lists another as a mediator and uses the exact same Greek word (mesités) to refer to Moses as a mediator as he does for Christ as mediator in 1 Tim 2:5. Thus, the Scriptures teach there is a differentiation between Christ's unique mediation (as the God-man) and man's mediation (as members of God's Church).


Mesités: an arbitrator, a mediator
Original Word: μεσίτης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: mesités
Phonetic Spelling: (mes-ee'-tace)
Short Definition: a mediator, go-between
Definition: (a) a mediator, intermediary, (b) a go-between, arbiter, agent of something good.

Source: Strong's Greek: 3316. μεσίτης (mesités) -- an arbitrator, a mediator


Mediator: advocate, arbiter, arbitrator, go-between, honest broker, interceder, intermediary, judge, middleman, moderator, negotiator, peacemaker, referee, umpire

Source: mediator synonym | English synonyms dictionary | Reverso

 

[HankD]

There's not too much to discern when the opening line of the Psalm explicitly states whose it is and whose it's author:

Psalm 103:1 "A Psalm of David..."

no, not necessarily, a Psalm of David - ownership as king of Israel but not author. Besides it does not make right the catholic dogma of communication with the dead especially as mediator or intercessor.

St. Paul's mention of Christ as mediator in his letter to his young bishop St. Timothy is a Christological statement testifying to Christ's unique mediation as the one and only God-man who offered Himself to the Father. (cf. 1 Tim 2:5-6)

However, St. Paul also told the faithful at Galatia that there is at least one other mediator. Unless you believe the Apostle contradicted himself or simply didn't couldn't add, there are multiple meanings and contexts in which the word is used.

Galatians 3:19 --> "Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator."

Here we see the Apostle lists another as a mediator and uses the exact same Greek word (mesités) to refer to Moses as a mediator as he does for Christ as mediator in 1 Tim 2:5. Thus, the Scriptures teach there is a differentiation between Christ's unique mediation (as the God-man) and man's mediation (as members of God's Church).


Mesités: an arbitrator, a mediator
Original Word: μεσίτης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: mesités
Phonetic Spelling: (mes-ee'-tace)
Short Definition: a mediator, go-between
Definition: (a) a mediator, intermediary, (b) a go-between, arbiter, agent of something good.

Source: Strong's Greek: 3316. μεσίτης (mesités) -- an arbitrator, a mediator


Mediator: advocate, arbiter, arbitrator, go-between, honest broker, interceder, intermediary, judge, middleman, moderator, negotiator, peacemaker, referee, umpire

Source: mediator synonym | English synonyms dictionary | Reverso

convincing for some but not me.
catholic intercession of the saints via communication between individuals in heaven and on earth is not spelled out as definitive as in other teaching organizations in the church. i was raised as a cradle catholic - the so called "Communion of the Saints" is not spelled out by any apostle including Paul, neither taught by the LORD. It is built upon very questionable scripture - church tradition - this is what you have.

 

[David Kent]

Who believes Mary is a goddess?

If you believe that she can hear you and the prayers of all the other deluded from around the world, yes you do treat her as a goddess.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Luke 15:10 ---> "So it is, I tell you, with the angels of God; there is joy among them over one sinner that repents."


Who is in heaven with the angels and God?

You’ll find no scriptural support for any saints rejoicing in heaven over repentant sinners. There is none. Your response is nonsense.

 

[Adonia]

As for everyone here, thank you for showing me the Holy Spirit within all of you, even though we all hold different opinions though we are all Baptist,

No, we are not all Baptist.

 

[Adonia]

Yes I did, I had no fault in doing so, but was quite unsure on praying the Hail Mary or Hail Holy Queen as well as the two mysteries I mentioned earlier which is why I created this topic. I thought about this a lot and I think I might continue praying the rosary but replace the Hail Marys for a different prayer to God as well as replace the Hail Holy Queen and of course ditch the two mysteries like you said.

I believe the beads were made to recite the Psalms. Another overlooked thing about the rosary is let's say you have a bunch of things in your mind, what better way to concentrate on things spiritual and get all those other things out of your head is to fill the mind with a set sequence of prayers.

The oft repeated charge about the rosary is "repetition" so I will ask the question would it be wrong if one just repeated the words "Jesus help me" over and over again? To the purist, would that not be repetition also?

 

[HankD]

I believe the beads were made to recite the Psalms. Another overlooked thing about the rosary is let's say you have a bunch of things in your mind, what better way to concentrate on things spiritual and get all those other things out of your head is to fill the mind with a set sequence of prayers.

The oft repeated charge about the rosary is "repetition" so I will ask the question would it be wrong if one just repeated the words "Jesus help me" over and over again? To the purist, would that not be repetition also?

only "vain" repetition does Jesus frown upon.

 

[robycop3]

You need to read the Scriptures. Regarding Lazarus, St. John provides an awful lot of detail to make it explicit that at Jesus's words, the dead Lazarus arose. He is clear that Lazarus was physically dead before the words our Blessed Lord spoke to him...

--> Jesus explicitly tells the disciples Lazarus is most assuredly dead. ---> John 11:14

--> When Jesus arrives in Bethany, Lazarus had been dead and in the grave for four days. ---> John 11:17

--> Martha warns Jesus that because he had been dead for four days, if He opens the grave, he will stinketh. ---> John 11:39

--> Jesus commands the dead Lazarus to come forth. ---> John 11:43

--> The dead Lazarus comes forth AFTER our Lord's command. ---> John 11:44

--> The risen Lazarus is still covered in his burial clothes, which Jesus then orders to have removed. ---> John 11:44



Regarding Tabitha at Joppa, St. Luke too provides details to make it explicit that at St. Peter's words, the dead Tabitha arose. He is clear that Tabitha was physically dead before the words St. Peter spoke to her...

--> Tabitha was sick and died ---> Acts 9:37

--> When St. Peter arrives, he is brought to the grieving family of Tabitha ---> Acts 9:39

--> St. Peter commands the dead Tabitha to arise ---> Acts 9:40

--> The dead Tabitha arrises and is presented to her family ---> Acts 9:41


Both Jesus and St. Peter speak directly to the dead Lazarus and the dead Tabitha. To deny this is to deny the explicit words of Scripture. According to you, Jesus and Peter's words never left the ceiling of the rooms in which they spoke to the dead. Same with David invoking those in heaven.

Remember, JESUS IS GOD, & He could/can do that. We can't.

And He spiritually told Pete what to do/say over Dorcas.

 

[robycop3]

No matter who says what, the fact remains that RECITING a prayer without any thought of the words, is wrong and useless.

And Mary can't do anything for or against us. She's long-dead.

 

[Walpole]

If you believe that she can hear you and the prayers of all the other deluded from around the world, yes you do treat her as a goddess.

Just last week I was on a conference call where participants from all over the world were speaking and I was able to hear and communicate with them. Was it all just a delusion or am I now a god?

 

[Walpole]

Remember, JESUS IS GOD, & He could/can do that. We can't.

Eph 5:1 ---> "Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children."

Jesus spoke to his dead friend Lazarus. According to you:

1. His prayer never left the ceiling of the cave (tomb) in which Lazarus was buried.

2. We are not to be imitators of Jesus because He is God and we are not and therefore we can’t imitate Him.

Are these correct characterizations of your arguments?

And He spiritually told Pete what to do/say over Dorcas.

I am missing that in Luke's account in Acts 9. Can you please give me the verse which says Peter prayed to the dead Tabitha because he was spiritually told to do that?

 

[HankD]

Just last week I was on a conference call where participants from all over the world were speaking and I was able to hear and communicate with them. Was it all just a delusion or am I now a god?

you are comparing apples and refrigerators.

presumably Mary would/could communicate with millions instantaneously on any given day.

again, as a child (pre Vatican II) in Catholic school i was instructed to kneel before the statue of Mary, make the sign of the cross, say my prayer, ask my petition, give thanks, make the sign of the cross. Same procedure for Jesus except kneel at the altar rail before the crucifix or before the ciborium.

 

[Walpole]

you are comparing apples and refrigerators.

presumably Mary would/could communicate with millions instantaneously on any given day.

About a month and a half ago, on a single day in November, roughly 30 million people worldwide were instantaneously able to hear and see Joe Buck and Troy Aikman announce and communicate a football game.

—> Cowboys-Patriots Draws More Than 30 Million Viewers; Ranks as Most-Watched Game of the Season | Fox Sports PressPass

Was it all a delusion or are Joe and Troy now gods?

youagain, as a child (pre Vatican II) in Catholic school i was instructed to kneel before the statue of Mary, make the sign of the cross, say my prayer, ask my petition, give thanks, make the sign of the cross. Same procedure for Jesus except kneel at the altar rail before the crucifix or before the ciborium.

Wonderful. Acts of piety are beautiful ways to express our love for God and His saints.

 

[HankD]

About a month and a half ago, on a single day in November, roughly 30 million people worldwide were instantaneously able to hear and see Joe Buck and Troy Aikman announce and communicate a football game.

—> Cowboys-Patriots Draws More Than 30 Million Viewers; Ranks as Most-Watched Game of the Season | Fox Sports PressPass

Was it all a delusion or are Joe and Troy now gods?

you are not listening to my blithering. Joe and Troy cannot INDIVIDUALLY COMMUNICATE SIMULTANEOUSLY ON A PERSONAL LEVEL with each of the viewers as if they individually had omniscience/omnipresence like Mary (which she does not) WHICH i was taught as a child. IOW neither one of them could have a personalized private communication with each and every petitioner as if deity.

Wonderful. Acts of piety are beautiful ways to express our love for God and His saints.

thank you, i have moved to an even higher plane by bypassing the mediators, mediatrix and entering directly beyond the veil (now opened), directly into the presence of GOD in the name and authority of the finished work of my LORD and Savior Jesus Christ. HIS death burial and resurrection.

 

[robycop3]

Eph 5:1 ---> "Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children."

Jesus spoke to his dead friend Lazarus. According to you:

1. His prayer never left the ceiling of the cave (tomb) in which Lazarus was buried.

2. We are not to be imitators of Jesus because He is God and we are not and therefore we can’t imitate Him.

Are these correct characterizations of your arguments?

An imitation is not equal to the original, and we don't have Divine power & authority as Jesus has. Have YOU ever called anyone back from the dead ?

I am missing that in Luke's account in Acts 9. Can you please give me the verse which says Peter prayed to the dead Tabitha because he was spiritually told to do that?

I'm sure he didn't just do it on his own. The Scripture says he prayed, then turned toward her body & said, "Tabitha, arise." I believe Peter prayed to God, asking Him what to do, & received an immediate answer.

 

[Walpole]

you are not listening to my blithering. Joe and Troy cannot INDIVIDUALLY COMMUNICATE SIMULTANEOUSLY ON A PERSONAL LEVEL with each of the viewers as if they individually had omniscience/omnipresence like Mary (which she does not) WHICH i was taught as a child. IOW neither one of them could have a personalized private communication with each and every petitioner as if deity.

Sorry but Joe and Troy WERE individually simultaneously communicating on a personal level to millions of views across the world. That is their job. They are broadcasters.

I am not sure if you have kept up the the technological advancements made in the past several years, particularly with respect to communications, but we now have the capability to communicate with multitudes of people across the world. This capability even extends beyond our world and into space...

---> How to call the International Space Station

If man is able to accomplish this feat, I have no reason to doubt Jesus' describing this being done with those in heaven. (cf. Luke 15:7, 10)

thank you, i have moved to an even higher plane by bypassing the mediators, mediatrix and entering directly beyond the veil (now opened), directly into the presence of GOD in the name and authority of the finished work of my LORD and Savior Jesus Christ. HIS death burial and resurrection.

Wonderful. I am so glad to hear. The acts of piety toward God and his Saints are not ends in and of themselves. Rather, their end should be in leading us to a deeper relationship with God, as you indicated they did for you.

God bless.