Praying the Rosary

[Zenas]

well, i know it comforts Catholics to pray to Mary.
even if what you say is possible why do you need to go to Mary? Why not Go directly to GOD?
I love Mary even though i have never seen her face to face but i can't pray to her.

Has anyone ever asked you to pray for them? Did you tell that person not to go through you, that God doesn't need your help to hear and answer prayers? I suspect not. I think you would pray for anyone who asked you to. So would I. We both believe in intercessory prayer because scripture teaches us to pray for one another.

So the difference is not, as you say, that those who pray to saints think God lacks the power to hear and answer prayers. The difference is actually that you don't seem to believe that the saints in Heaven can hear your petitions to pray for them. Based on Hebrews 12:1 and Revelation 8:3-5, I believe they can. And it's nice to know that someone in Heaven is interceding for you.

 

[Walpole]

i dont ask , people pray for me but actually i dont ask.

Maybe you should start...


1 Thes 5:25 ---> "Brothers, pray for us."

Eph 6:19 ---> "Pray also for me..."

 

[Walpole]

Ha!ha! Wish the Pope would get rid of all the practicing homosexuals among the cardinals, bishops, & priests. McCarrick should be moved to secular housing--he has tons of money.

A lot of us do too, but unfortunately it's going to get worse before it gets better. We probably have another 20 years or so before many of the homosexuals in leadership positions die off.

You can read a comprehensive study on this here ---> Clergy Sex Abuse Report

 

[Walpole]

Well, Jesus is far-more-powerful than the soul of any ordinary person. He is God; they are not.

And once more - Prayers to the dead don't go past the ceiling.

Too bad you weren't around to tell Jesus and St. Peter their prayers were futile, stuck under the ceiling...

John 11:14, 43-44 ---> "Then said Jesus unto them plainly, 'Lazarus is dead'...And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, 'Lazarus, come forth.' And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with grave clothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go."

Acts 9:37, 40 ---> ?And it came to pass in those days, that she was sick, and died: whom when they had washed, they laid her in an upper chamber...But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, 'Tabitha, arise.' And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.

 

[Walpole]

God needs help to hear and answer prayers? Jesus cannot handle those by Himself? What part of being all powerful and all knowing are you missing?

God doesn't need anything. To think that hearing the prayers of intercessors somehow diminishes His power demonstrates you have a fallacious understanding of who God is.

God created us for communion, not only with Him but with each other. We don't live in isolation. Even God Himself is a communion of Persons. Thus, intercessory prayers are inherent to our very nature.

Intercessor: One who intercedes

Intercede: To act or interpose in behalf of someone in difficulty or trouble, as by pleading or petition

Revelation 5:8 ---> "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints."

St. John here explicitly describes God receiving prayers from someone other than the primary petitioner. This makes the person presenting and taking the prayers of the primary petitioner to God - by definition - an intercessor.

This is the Christian belief in the Communion of Saints explicitly demonstrated in Scripture.

 

[skyjoy00]

Again I would like to thank you all for your replies! It has given me great insight and has given me the opportunity to learn from my misleadings. I would also like to mention that I intended no hostility or offense to anyone, I was simply looking for answers and am deeply sorry if I’ve caused anyone to think otherwise. Although I was led astray, I have some absolute truths that I cannot deny and that I try to uphold to everyday.That we are to love Jesus Christ and the Father Almighty above all else, to put no one above Him, and that everyone should love thy neighbor no matter where they come from or what their religion, it is our duty as followers of Christ to show them the Holy Spirit within us so they might be led to the path of righteousness and be given the choice to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. As for everyone here, thank you for showing me the Holy Spirit within all of you, even though we all hold different opinions though we are all Baptist, we all have one thing in common. We share the love for Jesus Christ and are doing our best to humbly serve Him unconditionally. God bless you!

 

[Yeshua1]

Not missing a thing, Yeshua. Has anyone ever asked you to pray for them? Did you tell that person not to go through you, that God doesn't need your help to hear and answer prayers? I suspect not. I think you would pray for anyone who asked you to. So would I. We both believe in intercessory prayer because scripture teaches us to pray for one another.

So the difference is not, as you say, that those who pray to saints think God lacks the power to hear and answer prayers. The difference is actually that you don't seem to believe that the saints in Heaven can hear your petitions to pray for them. Based on Hebrews 12:1 and Revelation 8:3-5, I believe they can.

NO scripture teaches that they can, and why would we even need them to do that for us, is not our great High priest sufficient in Himself to intercede on our behalf?

 

[Yeshua1]

God doesn't need anything. To think that hearing the prayers of intercessors somehow diminishes His power demonstrates you have a fallacious understanding of who God is.

God created us for communion, not only with Him but with each other. We don't live in isolation. Even God Himself is a communion of Persons. Thus, intercessory prayers are inherent to our very nature.

Intercessor: One who intercedes

Intercede: To act or interpose in behalf of someone in difficulty or trouble, as by pleading or petition

Revelation 5:8 ---> "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints."

St. John here explicitly describes God receiving prayers from someone other than the primary petitioner. This makes the person presenting and taking the prayers of the primary petitioner to God - by definition - an intercessor.

This is the Christian belief in the Communion of Saints explicitly demonstrated in Scripture.

there is but ONE mediator between us and God, One great High Priest, Jesus, not also Mary and Apostles!

 

[robycop3]

A lot of us do too, but unfortunately it's going to get worse before it gets better. We probably have another 20 years or so before many of the homosexuals in leadership positions die off.

You can read a comprehensive study on this here ---> Clergy Sex Abuse Report

Trouble is, they'll be replaced with more gays. Getting ridda "celibacy for clergy" would help !

 

[robycop3]

Too bad you weren't around to tell Jesus and St. Peter their prayers were futile, stuck under the ceiling...

John 11:14, 43-44 ---> "Then said Jesus unto them plainly, 'Lazarus is dead'...And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, 'Lazarus, come forth.' And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with grave clothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go."

Acts 9:37, 40 ---> ?And it came to pass in those days, that she was sick, and died: whom when they had washed, they laid her in an upper chamber...But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, 'Tabitha, arise.' And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.

Jesus prayed only to His Father. And Peter prayed FOR Dorcas, not TO her.

 

[church mouse guy]

A lot of us do too, but unfortunately it's going to get worse before it gets better. We probably have another 20 years or so before many of the homosexuals in leadership positions die off.

You can read a comprehensive study on this here ---> Clergy Sex Abuse Report

Thank you for the link--I am going to read the report over the weekend. We are both having difficulty not only with sodomites but also with cultural marxists in my opinion. I think that the theology of the pre-trib rapture makes for a Christian that is not willing to fight until the end as General William Booth used to say:

“While women weep, as they do now,
I'll fight
While little children go hungry, as they do now,
I'll fight
While men go to prison, in and out, in and out, as they do now,
I'll fight
While there is a drunkard left,
While there is a poor lost girl upon the streets,
While there remains one dark soul without the light of God,
I'll fight-I'll fight to the very end!”

― William Booth

 

[HankD]

Has anyone ever asked you to pray for them?

I never had anyone call me from heaven and ask me to pray for them.

So the difference is not, as you say, that those who pray to saints think God lacks the power to hear and answer prayers. The difference is actually that you don't seem to believe that the saints in Heaven can hear your petitions to pray for them.

correct.

Based on Hebrews 12:1 and Revelation 8:3-5, I believe they can.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Revelation 8
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

In these passages, I don't see any means of dynamic communications between those individuals on earth with those in heaven and vice versa.

And it's nice to know that someone in Heaven is interceding for you.

There is.

 

[HankD]

Maybe you should start...


1 Thes 5:25 ---> "Brothers, pray for us."

Eph 6:19 ---> "Pray also for me..."

As far as I know there is no means of communication between humans on earth and those in heaven apart from our communications with the incarnation of the Second Person of the Trinity.

 

[Walpole]

Trouble is, they'll be replaced with more gays. Getting ridda "celibacy for clergy" would help !

Homosexuals with a penchant for pederasty getting married isn't going to help.

Rather, not permitting homosexuals to be ordained will.

 

[Walpole]

Thank you for the link--I am going to read the report over the weekend. We are both having difficulty not only with sodomites but also with cultural marxists in my opinion. I think that the theology of the pre-trib rapture makes for a Christian that is not willing to fight until the end as General William Booth used to say:

“While women weep, as they do now,
I'll fight
While little children go hungry, as they do now,
I'll fight
While men go to prison, in and out, in and out, as they do now,
I'll fight
While there is a drunkard left,
While there is a poor lost girl upon the streets,
While there remains one dark soul without the light of God,
I'll fight-I'll fight to the very end!”

― William Booth

Please do read it. It was written after an extensive study by a good friend of mine at the Ruth Institute. He demonstrates, empirically, what the media will not report: That the abuse problem (which really is pederasty) is a result of homosexuality in the Church.

His study shows the Church and priests succumbed to the general moral decline of the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. He empirically shows the early 80’s saw the largest influx of homosexuals to the priesthood. Those guys are now 60+ years old and many have become bishops. Thus there is a large number of bishops today who are homosexual. This explains why they continue to cover up for the pederasty of their fellow homosexual bishops and priests.

Thankfully, the vast majority younger priests (ordained recently) are not homosexual. However, the crisis will get worse before it gets better because there will continue to be a top-heavy homosexual episcopate for the next 20-30 years, until the current crop dies off and is replaced the by those ordained more recently, who will eventually work their way up the hierarchy.

All of this needs to come to light. Those trying to destroy the Church are now out in the open. They aren’t doing it by hiding in the background anymore. Rather, they are now out and in the open. The faithful know now fully what they are up against.

 

[Walpole]

As far as I know there is no means of communication between humans on earth and those in heaven apart from our communications with the incarnation of the Second Person of the Trinity.

Psalm 103:21 David says ---> "Praise the Lord, all his heavenly hosts, you his servants who do his will."


Psalm 148:1-2 David says ---> "Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord from the heavens; praise him in the heights above. Praise him, all his angels; praise him, all his heavenly hosts."


Luke 15:7 Jesus taught ---> "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."


Luke 15:10 again Jesus taught ---> "So it is, I tell you, with the angels of God; there is joy among them over one sinner that repents."


God makes communication possible between the Church in heaven and the Church on earth in a way that transcends language.

 

[Walpole]

Jesus prayed only to His Father. And Peter prayed FOR Dorcas, not TO her.

You need to read the Scriptures. Regarding Lazarus, St. John provides an awful lot of detail to make it explicit that at Jesus's words, the dead Lazarus arose. He is clear that Lazarus was physically dead before the words our Blessed Lord spoke to him...

--> Jesus explicitly tells the disciples Lazarus is most assuredly dead. ---> John 11:14

--> When Jesus arrives in Bethany, Lazarus had been dead and in the grave for four days. ---> John 11:17

--> Martha warns Jesus that because he had been dead for four days, if He opens the grave, he will stinketh. ---> John 11:39

--> Jesus commands the dead Lazarus to come forth. ---> John 11:43

--> The dead Lazarus comes forth AFTER our Lord's command. ---> John 11:44

--> The risen Lazarus is still covered in his burial clothes, which Jesus then orders to have removed. ---> John 11:44



Regarding Tabitha at Joppa, St. Luke too provides details to make it explicit that at St. Peter's words, the dead Tabitha arose. He is clear that Tabitha was physically dead before the words St. Peter spoke to her...

--> Tabitha was sick and died ---> Acts 9:37

--> When St. Peter arrives, he is brought to the grieving family of Tabitha ---> Acts 9:39

--> St. Peter commands the dead Tabitha to arise ---> Acts 9:40

--> The dead Tabitha arrises and is presented to her family ---> Acts 9:41


Both Jesus and St. Peter speak directly to the dead Lazarus and the dead Tabitha. To deny this is to deny the explicit words of Scripture. According to you, Jesus and Peter's words never left the ceiling of the rooms in which they spoke to the dead. Same with David invoking those in heaven.

 

[HankD]

Psalm 103:21 David says ---> "Praise the Lord, all his heavenly hosts, you his servants who do his will."


Psalm 148:1-2 David says ---> "Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord from the heavens; praise him in the heights above. Praise him, all his angels; praise him, all his heavenly hosts."


Luke 15:7 Jesus taught ---> "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."


Luke 15:10 again Jesus taught ---> "So it is, I tell you, with the angels of God; there is joy among them over one sinner that repents."


God makes communication possible between the Church in heaven and the Church on earth in a way that transcends language.

i don't see anything like intra-communications here between heaven and earth.

the closest in the NT is the parable of Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31.

 

[Walpole]

i don't see anything like intra-communications here between heaven and earth.

the closest in the NT is

You don't see it? Let's try and make this easier for you. Here are the words of David...

Psalm 103:21 ---> "Praise the Lord, all his heavenly hosts, you his servants who do his will."

Psalm 148:-12 ---> "Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord from the heavens; praise him in the heights above. Praise him, all his angels; praise him, all his heavenly hosts."



Question for you ---> Who are the "heavenly hosts", the "angels", those "from the heavens" and those "in the heights above"?

If these people are someone other than God, then Scripture records David is clearly communicating between heaven and earth.


Now let's look at the words of our Blessed Lord...


Luke 15:7 ---> "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent."

Luke 15:10 ---> "So it is, I tell you, with the angels of God; there is joy among them over one sinner that repents."


The Lord explicitly states the angels and saints (those in heaven with the angels) in heaven are able to rejoice over a sinner repenting here on Earth. Thus, this is only possible if they have been made aware - via God - of that person's (sinner) innermost thoughts. Otherwise, they would not be rejoicing over their repentance. For you cannot rejoice in good news you are not aware of. Our Blessed Lord clearly demonstrates that God enables communication between the Church on Earth and the Church triumphant in heaven.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

So you believe we become angels in heaven.