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Predestination is a Beautiful Doctrine.

C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
God withholding His mercy from some, and choosing to show it to others?

1) God has judicially blinded the nation of Israel, for the most part, specifically so that they cannot see, hear and believe on His Son in Matthew 13:10-17, Mark 4:10-12, John 12:37-40, Romans 11:7-11. This leaves them in their sins.

2) The Gospel is hid to them that believe not ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ) by Satan because the Lord allows it. Again, this leaves all who are blinded by Satan in their sins, and does not show them His mercy.

3) In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul tells the church at Thessalonica that when Anti-Christ comes, the Lord will send those who are not His people a strong delusion... so that they will believe the lie that Anti-Christ is God, and will voluntarily take the mark. This leaves them in their sins.

There are many other places in the Scriptures that objectively show the Lord choosing one and not another;
Choosing to blind some and not others, etc.
God has mercy upon whom He will have mercy ( Romans 9 ), Charlie.


If anyone has believed on His Son, it's because He chose to have mercy on them and to allow His Son to reveal the truth of who He really is, to their hearts and minds ( Matthew 11:25-27 ).

Have you not read of these things?
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Of course I've read them, many times!

All three examples you gave and several more including Pharaoh in Exodus are examples of rebellion and hardened hearts against God.

God gives you what you want, as far as accepting Him or not. If you rebel and continue that rebellion and hardness against God He will give you a firm hardness against Him.

In Israel's case, God made a promise to Abraham that He will keep. God has blinded Israel and set them aside until the Church Age has run it's course, as Paul has clearly said. God is dealing separately with Israel's salvation that will come after the Church Age has come to its full.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Zaatar71 said:
No SH, I respond with teachers who know and believed scripture. It is all about scripture! You cannot refute what is taught because it is built on the solid rock of scripture
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You respond with calvinist teachers that are looking through the same lens you are. What they say is their opinion but that does not make it right when held to the truth of scripture.
Zaatar71 said:
Those who object, like you, cannot answer because Calvinist teachers offer solid scripture, which are not going to be refuted anytime soon.
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Fro a slanted view which has it's base in pagan philosophy.
Zaatar71 said:
Show where he was wrong, that should be simple enough...No one is stopping you from trying..Saying he was wrong, is one thing, showing in scripture is another thing...you cannot do it!
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When he uses calvinism as the basis of his view then he starts from a view based on pagan philosophy thus he starts from error. He, as you, can quote the bible but when your views are colored by false teachings you end up with false teachings.
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
It's the same plan that He had when the Holy Ghost forbade Paul and Silas to go into Asia ( Acts 16:6-7 ), the same plan when He decided to reveal Himself to Jacob and not to Esau, Moses and not Zipporah, Joseph and Mary and not others of their family, Paul on the road to Damascus and not the rest of his friends in the Pharisees ( except for Nicodemus and some others ), Peter, James, John, Andrew and some of the other fishermen who frequented the Sea of Galilee and not others, and the same plan when Noah and his family were the only ones that the Lord saved in the ark.

I think you'll find, if you look carefully enough throughout God's word, that all those that the Lord has specifically revealed Himself to over the years, have been in a rather small minority... compared to the billions that have ever been born, lived and died.
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Look at Cain and Abel to see how God reveals Himself to man.

Both of them knew what the animal sacrifice meant, it represented the coming Messiah of God.

Abel brought that animal sacrifice before God and was accepted, but what about Cain?

Cain rebelled and brought a sacrifice of vegetables, and was rejected by God.

Cain rebelled against God because he wanted it his way, not God's way. He could have been at peace with God by accepting God's way of salvation through the animal sacrifice, but he refused and look at what happened to him.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
True point, but when as the free willers teach, believing is by the unregenerate flesh of man, which causes God to save them, then believing becomes a meritorious work they did. It believing is not meritorious only when its acknowledged to be caused by Gods Grace. And Specifically the Grace of regeneration.
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There you go teaching that false human philosophy again BF. Why is it that you do not trust the word of God?

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 5:2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
Rom 4:6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

You have to ignore scripture to hold to your false understanding BF.
 
Z

Zaatar71

Active Member
Silverhair said:
You respond with calvinist teachers that are looking through the same lens you are. What they say is their opinion but that does not make it right when held to the truth of scripture.

Fro a slanted view which has it's base in pagan philosophy.


When he uses calvinism as the basis of his view then he starts from a view based on pagan philosophy thus he starts from error. He, as you, can quote the bible but when your views are colored by false teachings you end up with false teachings.
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No substance offered here SH...Try again!
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
Alan Dale Gross said:
"Predestination is a Beautiful Doctrine."

"Predestination is a Beautiful Doctrine. Its beauty lies in the fact that a Holy God has Revealed it to us in His Word. And, as Calvin and Boettner, among others, point out, it has significant practical applications. Predestination is not merely a topic for discussion and debate among curious seminary students. It tells us much about the character of God:

  • "God is Meticulously Writing the story of history according to His Own Script. Though we speak of “accidents,” really, there are no accidents. Nothing will take place today that hasn’t been carefully Planned before in Eternity Past by an All-Powerful and Good Creator.

  • "God Loves sinners. We should never get over the stunning reality of this statement. Though we have rebelled against Him, yet God Sent His Only Son to die in the Place of sinful men and women to Rescue them from sin and death (Rom. 5:8). Christ, who was not guilty, Laid Down His Life for the guilty (1 Pet. 3:18). He Bore the Wrath we deserve.

  • "God uses Means to Achieve His Ends. Our Lord selects weak clay pots and Sends them to the Ends of the Earth to preach the good news of His Rescue Mission in Christ (Rom. 10:14-15). He Gives fallen men the unconscionable privilege of proclaiming his sin-slaying, death-defeating Gospel.

  • "God’s Glory is Ultimate, not man’s. The outset of the Shorter Catechism famously marks out the chief end of man—to Glorify God and enjoy Him Forever. God Made us for His Glory (Isa. 42:8). Every pursuit in life is to be done with an eye to the spread of His Fame.
"Predestination also says something important about us: apart from a Unilateral Work of Grace, we cannot please God. We are dead in our sins, and dead men can do nothing (Eph. 2:1). Therefore, we ignore Predestination to our own Spiritual malnourishment."
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I cannot understand how this reasoning when carefully considered can possibly make any sense to a sane mind. Having said nothing that is true about God and claiming that God planned out beforehand every event and action meticulously, the writer then warns in his last line that we can ignore predestination to our own detriment. The fact that a couple men gave this post a high five proves that no one is actually reading it or; fill in the blank.

What else in the meticulous pre-planning of God can we ignore and have to deal with the consequences?

  • Nothing will take place today that hasn’t been carefully Planned before in Eternity Past by an All-Powerful and Good Creator.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Zaatar71 said:
No substance offered here SH...Try again!
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The substance is the word of God not what some man thinks a philosophy from the forth century says.

I would lay odds that you have yet to do any research into the foundations of your religion. And you cannot say it is the bible as your philosophical view is in disagreement with the word of God.
 
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