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Preterism - True Or false?
- Thread starter robycop3
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Any denial of a future, physical, and literal return of Christ is heresy.
It is not my view. I am a futurist -
First we who believe shall be removed (My view).
Then the literal, visible, bodily return of Jesus Christ. AS PROPHESIED by ANGELS!
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Even so COME LORD Jesus!
HankD
First we who believe shall be removed (My view).
Then the literal, visible, bodily return of Jesus Christ. AS PROPHESIED by ANGELS!
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Even so COME LORD Jesus!
HankD
Partial Preterism or full blown preterism?
Thats not what Partial Preterism teaches.
IMO there is no such thing as "partial preterism" it is futurism in disguise.
HankD
There's no valid reason to not believe Scripture LITERALLY AS POSSIBLE. Sure, there's some symbolism in Scripture, but those symbols always stand for something real. And many of them are explained by other verses of Scripture, while the meanings of the others can be discerned with our overview of all Scripture.
Partial preterism ignores these words of Jesus: Matt. 24:29[i\ “Immediately after the tribulation[/i] of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. "
So we see that Jesus will return immediately after the great trib. Now, if the trib was in 70 AD, He is long-overdue!
As for Matt. 24:34, we must look at the various meanings of "genea", rendered 'generation' in that verse. Besides meaning the body of all mankind living in a given time, it can also mean an age or a nation or people. (We might get a little help on this from the readers of Koine Greek on this site.) And it's quite-obvious that Jesus' use of that word is in a sense other than referring to the people living at the time He uttered that prophecy. Remember, Jesus' prophecies will be fulfilled to the letter of how they were originally written and preserved. And it's just-as-obvious He has NOT yet returned in the manner HE HIMSELF described - in great power and glory, SEEN BY ALL, even those who pierced Him.
Also, remember that over a hundred Old testament prophecies about Jesus' first coming were LITERALLY fulfilled TO THE LETTER. Thus, there's no valid reason to believe the rest of His prophecies won'y be fulfilled just-as-exactly, just-as-literally!
Preterists try to fill in the gaps between their pronouncements and history/reality by reducing "inconvenient" Scriptures to "figurative/symbolic" status, but that's tampering with God's word by inventing new meanings for it - in other words, it's EISEGESIS, that is, reading man-made meanings into Scripture. I have but one conclusion to draw about preterism, full or partial -
"PRETERISM - PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE!"
Partial preterism ignores these words of Jesus: Matt. 24:29[i\ “Immediately after the tribulation[/i] of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. "
So we see that Jesus will return immediately after the great trib. Now, if the trib was in 70 AD, He is long-overdue!
As for Matt. 24:34, we must look at the various meanings of "genea", rendered 'generation' in that verse. Besides meaning the body of all mankind living in a given time, it can also mean an age or a nation or people. (We might get a little help on this from the readers of Koine Greek on this site.) And it's quite-obvious that Jesus' use of that word is in a sense other than referring to the people living at the time He uttered that prophecy. Remember, Jesus' prophecies will be fulfilled to the letter of how they were originally written and preserved. And it's just-as-obvious He has NOT yet returned in the manner HE HIMSELF described - in great power and glory, SEEN BY ALL, even those who pierced Him.
Also, remember that over a hundred Old testament prophecies about Jesus' first coming were LITERALLY fulfilled TO THE LETTER. Thus, there's no valid reason to believe the rest of His prophecies won'y be fulfilled just-as-exactly, just-as-literally!
Preterists try to fill in the gaps between their pronouncements and history/reality by reducing "inconvenient" Scriptures to "figurative/symbolic" status, but that's tampering with God's word by inventing new meanings for it - in other words, it's EISEGESIS, that is, reading man-made meanings into Scripture. I have but one conclusion to draw about preterism, full or partial -
"PRETERISM - PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE!"
False
It is my opinion and there is no way in which my opinion is false as it is TRULY my opinion.
HankD
As with all such discussions, definitions are of paramount importance to proper understanding.
Preterism: Teaches that all prophecies were fullfilled by the close of the 1st century AD (usually 70 AD).
Partial Preterism: Teaches that some (or most) of the prophecies were fulfilled by 70 AD.
Preterism teaches that either all (Full Preterism) or a majority (Partial Preterism) of the Olivet discourse had come to pass by AD 70.
Most knowledgeable church historians recognize that the Roman Catholic Jesuit Luis de Alcasar (1554–1613) wrote the first systematic preterist exposition of prophecy - Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (published in 1614)—during the anti-Protestant Counter-Reformation.
What most Preterists and Partial Preterists fail to understand is that they are preaching Roman Catholic apostasy.
Preterism: Teaches that all prophecies were fullfilled by the close of the 1st century AD (usually 70 AD).
Partial Preterism: Teaches that some (or most) of the prophecies were fulfilled by 70 AD.
Preterism teaches that either all (Full Preterism) or a majority (Partial Preterism) of the Olivet discourse had come to pass by AD 70.
Most knowledgeable church historians recognize that the Roman Catholic Jesuit Luis de Alcasar (1554–1613) wrote the first systematic preterist exposition of prophecy - Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (published in 1614)—during the anti-Protestant Counter-Reformation.
What most Preterists and Partial Preterists fail to understand is that they are preaching Roman Catholic apostasy.
Indeed.
Pre Vatican II The Second coming was not widely taught by the RCC. It was not denied but the general dogma was indeed preterist.
IMO The modern RCC teaching of the Second Coming was/is in reality a dogma carrot held out to "The Separated Brethren" to bring them back into bondage (oops I mean "into fellowship"). They remain preterist internally.
HankD
We need a better term than "(partial) Preterism" as it is meaningless to most Christians without explanation, & is given a meaning by whoever is explaining.
A key passage is Luke 24:
44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things.
46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things.
Therefore the Scriptural term I shall use is:
Fulfilment Theology
We can all read Old Covenant prophecy, & see a glorious future for Israel when Messiah comes, return to the land, temple worship, etc.
We can all also read in the New Covenant Scriptures the fulfilment of prophecy, the response of many thousands of Israel, including priests & Pharisees, to the Apostolic Gospel, & the repeated warnings to those of Israel who rejected their Messiah & his Gospel.
One NC emphasis is the fulfilment of the original promise to Abraham,
".... in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
Everyone thinks they are the sole arbiture of the "scriptural term".
What is "arbiture"? Do you mean "arbitrator"?
I do when it comes to the definition of "full preterism". "All Scripture has been fulfilled".
I don't when it comes to eschatology as a doctrinal body of teaching.
I have strong preferences (futurism) but I don't think we have the whole picture and won't until He returns.
HankD
You're right, to a point. yes, all things prophesied about Jesus must be fulfilled. But you've admitted that His 2nd coming hasn't occurred yet. And when it does, it'll be in the exact manner prophesied, with all the prophesied accompanying events.
BTW, Alcazar wrote much of the material that makes up the current preterism myth today, to protect his pope from being labeled the 'beast'.(Another false doctrine, BTW.) So, we have false trying to counter false. Two falses DON'T make a truth!
Again & again, I shall ask preterists for **PROOF** that the events they SAY have occurred, HAVE actually occurred. So far, they're batting ZERO!
Lemme speak briefly about Nero, whom some prets cay was the "beast". While nero was a bad man, he did not fulfill many Scriptural criteria for the TRUE beast. He was never in jerusalem, so he couldn't've committed the "abomination of desolation". He did NOT overthrow three other rulers to become Caesar; he inherited the office. He was overthrown by other men, while the true beast will not be. He did not have a miracle-working false prophet as his deputy. And...He was NOT cast alive along with a false prophet, alive, into the lake of fire. He DIED in fronta several witnesses, after having his secretary, Epaphroditus, stab him with a sword, as he thought general Galba's men who came to arrest him were gonna kill him, & he didn't wanna die by Galba's men. (Those men tried in vain to save his life.) So, Nero was certainly not the beast! (The TRUE beast MUST fulfill ALL Scriptural criteria for the beast EXACTLY!)
More proof all preterism is phony as a Ford Corvette!
Full version denies the future second coming and the physical resurrection, so always seen as being a heresy!
Partial preterism is just-as-false, as jesus said there'd be a great cosmological disturbance IMMEDIATELY AFTER the great trib has ended, during which He shall return. So, I think it's quite-obvious the trib hasn't yet occurred, nor any of the other prophesied eschatological events.
The Greek for the two "shortlys" in Revelation as found in the KJV is "en tachos", which means "rapid movement or occurrence", not "soon", I am told by a neighbor proficient in Koine and modern Greek.. ("Tachycardia" means rapid heart beat.) That means, when the events begin, they'll come in rapid succession. And again, it's OBVIOUS those events have NOT yet happened!
Now, does that mean the Scriptures are wrong? Of course not. It means that some people's own interpretations of them are wrong. So far, the Bible las a 1.000 batting average of its prophecies being fulfilled exactly, and I have no doubt this percentage will continue as the rest are fulfilled, in GOD'S timing.
The Greek for the two "shortlys" in Revelation as found in the KJV is "en tachos", which means "rapid movement or occurrence", not "soon", I am told by a neighbor proficient in Koine and modern Greek.. ("Tachycardia" means rapid heart beat.) That means, when the events begin, they'll come in rapid succession. And again, it's OBVIOUS those events have NOT yet happened!
Now, does that mean the Scriptures are wrong? Of course not. It means that some people's own interpretations of them are wrong. So far, the Bible las a 1.000 batting average of its prophecies being fulfilled exactly, and I have no doubt this percentage will continue as the rest are fulfilled, in GOD'S timing.
You're as [personal attack edited] for presenting yourself as taking scripture literally when in fact you do not take scripture literally.
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I'll rephrase:
Futurism that itself does not takes scripture literally and wrongly maligns Preterism for not taking scripture literally is as phony as a three dollar bill.
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