Preterists still won't give up...

[prophecy70]

Premil right there!

That is not necessarly premillennialism

 

[robycop3]

I was not saying either is heresy, that is what you said. I consider both to be from the same stable,

I think heresy is teaching a different gospel of salvation. Only if you could prove that one or the other teaches that would I agree that it is heretical

On that matter you could google Is Dispensationalism a return to New Testament

Remember, it's not too hard to prove something has not happened, especially an earth-changing event such as those described in Revelation pertaining to the great trib. These are HUGE events, & had any of them already occurred, it'd occupy a very-prominent place in history. But they're all absent from history, & that's because they simply haven't yet happened!

OTOH, it's impossible to prove a Biblically-prophesied event is not gonna happen! faced with the FACT that they CANNOT PROVE the events they SAY have happened, have NOT yet happened, preterists often relegate them to the realm of "figurative" language, while others try to shoehorn some other events into the mix, while the silliest of them invent some goofy excuse such as "the Romans committed the AOD by worshipping their eagle ensigns in the temple" or "the mark of the beast was Caesar's likeness on Roman coins".

So we see a VAST amount of evidence against preterism, while we see nothing but silly excuses against futurism.

 

[robycop3]

You believe a phantom planet is coming to earth. So ill stick with what I believe

MMRRPP! WRONG!

I said several times that was a GUESS on my part. I also said there's nothing to prove it WON'T happen.

How is that preconceived? I take it at face value, the People of the prince came a destroyed the temple. It already happened in AD 70. Im not adding anything... you are.

No, people of A prince, not THE prince who is to come. did the destroying The prince at the time of that destruction did NOT want the temple destroyed.

That has nothing to do with Daniel 12, but good try to take one verse out of the bible and add it to what you want.

I suggest you pull out your Webster's Unabridged & look up the definition of "knowledge" to see how SILLY your statement is, as well as look at HISTORY, then come back & tell us again knowledge & travel is NOT increasing! Your credibility is going south fast!

That is just ignorant, based on the gospel according to robycop3

I didn't write nor alter one word of Scripture. OTOH, YOU simply don't believe those parts which prove your preterism wrong.

 

[David Kent]

I didn't write nor alter one word of Scripture. OTOH, YOU simply don't believe those parts which prove your preterism wrong.

And you simply deny things like the people of the prince who would come and destroy the temple did come and destroy the temple Jesus was speaking about in Olivet, And the temple is not there to prove it. You are the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[prophecy70]

I said several times that was a GUESS on my part. I also said there's nothing to prove it WON'T happen.

Do you watch star trek? I believe you get the bible and that show mixed up sometimes.

No, people of A prince, not THE prince who is to come. did the destroying The prince at the time of that destruction did NOT want the temple destroyed.

Whats that matter? The prince isn't the subject.

I suggest you pull out your Webster's Unabridged & look up the definition of "knowledge" to see how SILLY your statement is, as well as look at HISTORY, then come back & tell us again knowledge & travel is NOT increasing! Your credibility is going south fast!

And you should get some commentaries on that verse, and read them.
If you wouldn't take it clear out of context, the verse means, people will search to and fro after the book is unsealed to gain knowledge about Daniel's prophecies. Not about planes trains and automobiles.

I didn't write nor alter one word of Scripture. OTOH, YOU simply don't believe those parts which prove your preterism wrong.

Nothing proves it wrong.

 

[Aaron]

Not so. I have Encyclopsedia Britannica, Collier's Encyclopedia, & other works of history right in front of me, as well as the whole internet.



Only partially. Judah has a sovereign nation again, but not the rest of Israel, far as we know.

And gentiles were saved very early on, as Jesus Himself saved a Roman, a Samaritan, & a Canaanite woman. However, the prophecy is still being fulfilled, as most Christians today are gentiles, but very few Jews.

As for the "tabernacle of David", Amos was referring to Jesus here. And yes, the apostles in Acts 15 knew the prophecy had been fulfilled in part. The council was about gentiles being saved.

But the apostles' knowledge wasn't quite 100%. Whil3e sexual immorality has always been a sin, Paul later preached & wrote to not question the source of any meat set before you, but to thank God for it & eat. In most cases, one wouldn't know if it'd been offered to an idol, or been strangled And SOME blood remains in any meat. (As this is not the "Jabroney False Witless" forum, I won't discuss the blood thingie here.) Not even those apostles could get completely away from the "Mosaic" laws. (Remember Peter refusing to eat with gentiles til Paul admonished him? I assume this was after God had sent him to Cornelius' home.)

But the prophecies we're concerned with here are the ESCHATOLOGICAL ones, the ones prets say are already fulfilled, but obviously AREN'T yet.

Britannica?!

The tabernacle of David is the body of Christ, the church.

And so prophecy was delivered to you by the Spirit in metaphorical terms, and the historical fulfillment of that prophecy is stated quite explicitly, but you reject it in favor of your Darbyist notions. That's what I mean by history as you imagine it, and not as it was delivered to you.

And we could go on and on. The seed of Abraham, to whom the prophecies were given. Paul states, again quite unmistakably, that God didn't mean seeds (plural), but seed (singular), meaning Christ. And all who have faith in Christ are Abraham's seed (plural) and heirs according to the Promise. They are the elect.

But, again, you reject what is plainly stated in favor of your pet notions, thinking there is still some legitimacy to a Levitical priesthood, and brick temple and bleeding animals and legalistic feasts and high holy days when the true High Priest according to the Spirit is of the order of Melchizedek, not Levi. And Christ according to the flesh is of Judah, which are forbidden to serve in the tabernacle and so occupies the office contrary to the commandment which says only a Levite and a descendant of Aaron.

You need to take these things to Revelation. Not vice versa.

 

[prophecy70]

Not so. I have Encyclopsedia Britannica, Collier's Encyclopedia, & other works of history right in front of me, as well as the whole internet.

Now did this Cyclops come from the rogue planet and bring the Britannica?

 

[robycop3]

And you simply deny things like the people of the prince who would come and destroy the temple did come and destroy the temple Jesus was speaking about in Olivet, And the temple is not there to prove it. You are the pot calling the kettle black.

No, YOU insist Titus was the prince of Daniel. Gabriel didn't tell Danny "A coming prince will lead an army of his people to destroy J & the sanctuary." He said "the people of the prince....."

But the RUINS of the temple are there.

 

[Yeshua1]

I was not saying either is heresy, that is what you said. I consider both to be from the same stable,

I think heresy is teaching a different gospel of salvation. Only if you could prove that one or the other teaches that would I agree that it is heretical

On that matter you could google Is Dispensationalism a return to New Testament

Full blown preterism has always been seen as being heresy bu the historical Church though!

 

[robycop3]

Do you watch star trek? I believe you get the bible and that show mixed up sometimes.

Can YOU PROVE it won't happen? Can you even prove scenarios that resemble Star trek a little bit won't happen?

Whats that matter? The prince isn't the subject.

Right. the PEOPLE(Romans) is the subject. Nothing's said about that prince being present at the time of the destructions.

And you should get some commentaries on that verse, and read them.
If you wouldn't take it clear out of context, the verse means, people will search to and fro after the book is unsealed to gain knowledge about Daniel's prophecies. Not about planes trains and automobiles.



Nothing proves it wrong.

There are many commentaries giving many views of that verse, but Occam's razor says "When in doubt, go with tyhe OBVIOUS. And it's VERY-OBVIOUS that travel & knowledge have vastly increased as never before in the last hundred years, at an unprecedented rate.

Men had the same mental capacity in earlier times as they do now, so how come it took so long for tech to develop? Because God held it back, obviously! I believe that holdback began in the time of the tower of Babel when God judged man was acquiring knowledge too fast.

I skimmed thru several commentaries on this verse, & most of those that hold your view are older ones, written before the texh explosion. Obviously, mewn such as Wesley wrote before this increase in knowledge began in earnest, & so couldn't see it as fulfilled prophecy.

You may hold any view you wish, but I believe it's quite silly to DENY THE OBVIOUS, so I'm holding to the view that this prophecy was, & is, being fulfilled by the tech explosion.

 

[robycop3]

Britannica?!

So, YOU know more than the people who put it together?

The tabernacle of David is the body of Christ, the church.

MMRRPP! WRONG!

"Tabernacle" actually means "tent, house, or habitation", not necessarily a place of worship. The Hebrew is "mishkan": the Greek is "skene". The 'tabernacle' mentioned here is David's dynasty, which God promised him would last forever.[/I]

And so prophecy was delivered to you by the Spirit in metaphorical terms, and the historical fulfillment of that prophecy is stated quite explicitly, but you reject it in favor of your Darbyist notions. That's what I mean by history as you imagine it, and not as it was delivered to you.

No, the fulfillment of much of it has not yet occurred, simple as that. The jews have a sovereign nation, but the majority of the Jews live elsewhere, and Israel isn't yet restored at all.

And we could go on and on. The seed of Abraham, to whom the prophecies were given. Paul states, again quite unmistakably, that God didn't mean seeds (plural), but seed (singular), meaning Christ. And all who have faith in Christ are Abraham's seed (plural) and heirs according to the Promise. They are the elect.

Remember, Israel and the true Church are separate entities. While any Israeli can become part of the Church, one can be an Israeli only by ancestry.

But, again, you reject what is plainly stated in favor of your pet notions, thinking there is still some legitimacy to a Levitical priesthood, and brick temple and bleeding animals and legalistic feasts and high holy days when the true High Priest according to the Spirit is of the order of Melchizedek, not Levi. And Christ according to the flesh is of Judah, which are forbidden to serve in the tabernacle and so occupies the office contrary to the commandment which says only a Levite and a descendant of Aaron.

You need to take these things to Revelation. Not vice versa.

No, God is gonna restore NATIONAL ISRAEL, according to His word. But I agree that JESUS is the true High Priest. many of the last human ones were appointed by the greex or Romans anyway. Hor example, the infamous Caiaphas was appointed by Valerius Gratus, the Roman prelate succeeded by Pontius Pilate. The Levite High Priests presided over the Old Covenant system of animal sacrifices, etc. while JESUS sacrificed HIMSELF to fulfill the sacrificial laws once for all, for good. HE instituted, & presides over, the NEW Covenant.

But again, the Church and Israel are separate entities!

 

[robycop3]

Now did this Cyclops come from the rogue planet and bring the Britannica?

No, it was brung by the little green men from the planet Algore.

 

[David Kent]

No, the fulfillment of much of it has not yet occurred, simple as that. The jews have a sovereign nation, but the majority of the Jews live elsewhere, and Israel isn't yet restored at all.

How come?

 

[thatbrian]

Is this a Christian forum?

 

[prophecy70]

Can YOU PROVE it won't happen? Can you even prove scenarios that resemble Star trek a little bit won't happen?

Oh my. your credibility just gets go down hill.

Right. the PEOPLE(Romans) is the subject. Nothing's said about that prince being present at the time of the destructions.

Your point?

There are many commentaries giving many views of that verse, but Occam's razor says "When in doubt, go with tyhe OBVIOUS. And it's VERY-OBVIOUS that travel & knowledge have vastly increased as never before in the last hundred years, at an unprecedented rate.

Men had the same mental capacity in earlier times as they do now, so how come it took so long for tech to develop? Because God held it back, obviously! I believe that holdback began in the time of the tower of Babel when God judged man was acquiring knowledge too fast.

I skimmed thru several commentaries on this verse, & most of those that hold your view are older ones, written before the texh explosion. Obviously, mewn such as Wesley wrote before this increase in knowledge began in earnest, & so couldn't see it as fulfilled prophecy.

You may hold any view you wish, but I believe it's quite silly to DENY THE OBVIOUS, so I'm holding to the view that this prophecy was, & is, being fulfilled by the tech explosion.

That makes no sense what so ever.

 

[prophecy70]

No, the fulfillment of much of it has not yet occurred, simple as that. The jews have a sovereign nation, but the majority of the Jews live elsewhere, and Israel isn't yet restored at all.

PROVE IT

Remember, Israel and the true Church are separate entities. While any Israeli can become part of the Church, one can be an Israeli only by ancestry.

PROVE IT

No, God is gonna restore NATIONAL ISRAEL, according to His word. But I agree that JESUS is the true High Priest. many of the last human ones were appointed by the greex or Romans anyway. Hor example, the infamous Caiaphas was appointed by Valerius Gratus, the Roman prelate succeeded by Pontius Pilate. The Levite High Priests presided over the Old Covenant system of animal sacrifices, etc. while JESUS sacrificed HIMSELF to fulfill the sacrificial laws once for all, for good. HE instituted, & presides over, the NEW Covenant.

But again, the Church and Israel are separate entities!

PROVE THAT THEY ARE SEPARATE

 

[prophecy70]

Is this a Christian forum?

WIth robycop3 its mostly entertainment.

 

[thatbrian]

WIth robycop3 its mostly entertainment.

Thanks! It appears that way from where I sit. Is he a KJV-onlyist?

 

[Aaron]

"Tabernacle" actually means "tent, house, or habitation"

Duh.

And we are that habitation.

Eph 2:19-22
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The 'tabernacle' mentioned here is David's dynasty,

So you see that 'tent' or 'building' is a metaphor.

which God promised him would last forever.

And it does through Christ, the seed of David, and we are his brothers by faith, or have you forgotten that the Millennial Kingdom you're looking forward to comes to an end?

Maybe Britannica forgot to mention that.

 

[robycop3]

How come?

Because God's time hasn't arrived yet. He won't be one nanosecond off in accomplishing His will.