Not like YOURS already has.
The prince (the antichrist) hasn't yet come.
OF COURSE not, to one whose belief in a false doctrine has become dogma.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Preterists still won't give up...
- Thread starter robycop3
- Start date
- Status
Not like YOURS already has.
The prince (the antichrist) hasn't yet come.
OF COURSE not, to one whose belief in a false doctrine has become dogma.
prophecy70
Active Member
By whom?
The antichrist is not mentioned in Daniel 9. You're adding that.
My doctrine doesn't need 2000 year gaps in scripture and a rouge planet coming near earth. You also admitted the 7 literal days of creation may have gaps in them as well.
And my beliefs are false?
EASY! The nation of Israel is a JEWISH nation, & the Jews are only of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, & Levi. The descendants/members of the other tribes of Israel don't know their true ID now; only the jews do.
Let's start with 1 Cor. 10:32.
Then, Romans 11:25.
Then, there are God's promises made to the NATION Israel, beginning with those He made to Abraham. Those are UNCONDITIONAL promises, not dependent upon the Israelis' doing anything good or evil. However, God also pronounced curses against Israel for sinning. he clearly fulfilled them, including the "days of vengeance" against the Jews, which came about AFTER the New Covenant & the true Church had been established.
And the Church did NOT replace Israel in prophecy. The Church had been around for some 1900 years before the Jews' new nation was established, which is the beginning of God's restoration of Israel to greatness, as He promised.
Yes, any Israeli can become part of the Church, as can anyone else, but to be an Israeli, one must be BORN an Israeli. (An analogy: I was born a Caucasian. I cannot become a black or an Oriental by my wish, or any actions I can take. I can change my NATIONALITY AND/OR CULTURE, but I CANNOT change my RACE OR ANCESTRY.)
Right now, most Christians(members of the true Church) are gentiles; very few Jews are Christians.
I'd really be entertained by the silly false doctrines some here hold, such as preterism, if the subject weren't so serious.
but I AM entertained by the convoluted attempts of preterists to defend their false doctrine when they can't prove a single point of it. Some of those attempts are their trying to reduce Scriptures inconvenient for their doctrine to "figurative/symbolic/metaphorical" status, their trying to say certain historical events were the fulfillment of eschatological prophecy when those events don't come close to the actual prophecies, E. G. "the likeness of Caesar on Roman coins was the mark of the beast", or saying "They occurred in the spirit world".
Also, there's their denial of certain UNDENIABLE fulfillments of prophecy, such as the increase in travel & knowledge according to Daniel 12:4. That's one of the SILLIEST, MOST-HILARIOUS denials of FACT I've ever seen! (Not to mention the founding of modern Israel!)
Last edited:
Not hardly. The man-made KJVO myth is as silly & false as the preterism myth.
Thanks. It's just that I've noticed that certain things go together, typically.
Actually, the 'house" of David is his DYNASTY. There was no "Church" in Dave's time.
Remember, God had told Jacob that the rulership wouldn't depart from Judah TIL SHILOH (JESUS) COMES. But when Jesus first came, He refused to be King, even though some Jews wanted to make Him King then.
Yes - for David's DYNASTY.
Yes, Jesus will step aside so His Father can be all in all. But He will still be there. As he and His Father created Judah & David, Jesus will still be the eternal occupant of David's throne. (rulership)
To everyone like me, who doesn't believe the false preterism doctrine.
Yes, he IS. He is the prince who is to come.
Yes. Otherwise, you could name the antichrist, his false prophet, describe the marka the beast, tell us who issued it, tell us when all life in the seas died, when a third of mankind died , when all green grass was burned up, etc. etc.
True. False is FALSE, and false tries to use more false to support itself.
Revelation 20:5
Member
Good Morning Brother Robycop,
Dispensationalism (and other futuristic interpretations of Revelation) seems to be a result of a mis-translation of the Greek word "ge". It was translated into English(KJV) as "earth", so when J.N.Darby was putting together Dispensationalism, the "near" or "shortly" time references in Revelation were outright dismissed (and later twisted to mean anything other than "soon") because global wide cataclysms haven't occurred. The big issue in this discussion then becomes: what does the Greek word "ge" mean in the context of eschatology? Here is "ge" from Strongs: Strong's Greek: 1093. γῆ (gé) -- the earth, land The definition is: the earth, soil, land, region, country, inhabitants of a region. "Ge" in many instances in Revelation is actually referring to a region(land of Judea), not the world at large which is the Greek word "kosmos". Here is a more in-depth study of "ge" and "kosmos": Revelation: The Land (“Ge”) Is Referenced 22 Times More Often Than the World (“Kosmos”)
That is why the ECF taught that the temple in Revelation was the church, despite what the futurists say. They understood things which most today don't understand because of their constant brainwashing which they are trying to impart to us poor mortals.
Lol. And with this glittering jewel of eisegesis, I take my leave.
Greetings, Bro!
The Greek word "oikoumene", which means the whole inhabited world, is used in Revelation in the same verses with "ge" several times, such as in Rev. 16:14. And God is interested in the WHOLE world, of course. Thus, I believe we must go with the "whole world" meaning of ge in Revelation.
So, when something in Scripture doesn't match your man-made theory, you relegate it to "figurative/metaphorical/symbolic" status.
How convenient!
You say you're not a preterist, but you're using a method favored by preterists to try to get around "inconvenient" Scriptures.
Lol. And with this glittering jewel of eisegesis, I take my leave.
John 6:15 Therefore when Jesus perceived that they were about to come and take Him by force to make Him king, He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone.
So, believing a clearly-written verse is eisegesis?
Sorry, Aaron, you just can't stand to see one of your pet doctrines proven false.
Friend, my response applies to any of the topics we debate here, Peterism only being one of them. No one on any side of any of the debates we have is going to admit their doctrine is false. That doesn't mean it's not worth debating, but it helps when we have realistic expectations. I'm under no illusion that Synergists are going to repent of their views and adopt Monergism. The best I can hope for is to present the truth as I know it and pray that God prevails upon their heart and mind.
And, Sir, that's what I've been doing. I don't have to prove preterism false; the preterists must prove it's true.And they simple can't do it! The simple truth is, the eschatological events they SAY have already occurred, simply HAVE NOT YET OCCURRED! Nothing else matters in a preterism discussion.
(I was asked by an atheist to prove the existence of God. I said, "Easy! Who made quarks? Who gave each quark its "flavor"? What fuels gravity? What do magnetic lines of force consist of? These are the two commonest forces in our lives, gravity & electromagnetism, but no one can give any natural explanation for what powers them. And who made all the laws of physics?")
As Baptists & Christians, we have a D-U-T-Y to expose & work against & expose false doctrines of faith & worship. ALL man-made doctrines of faith & worship are false, and that includes the KJVO myth, "word/faith", "regenerational baptism", "replacement theology", & preterism, among others.
Unfortunately, you're correct about the believers of false doctrines rarely admitting their errors, but at least we can hopefully keep others from believing their hooey, and plant seeds in the minds of the doctrinaires so that the HOLY SPIRIT has something to work with if He chooses.
Revelation 20:5
Member
Oikoumené is referring to the whole inhabitable "Roman" world if you consider the historical context of Revelation. Look at the short definition of oikoumené here: Strong's Greek: 3625. οἰκουμένη (oikoumené) -- the inhabited earth Oikoumené is only used 3 times and Kosmos is only used 3 times in Revelation, whereas "ge" is used 67 times. "Ge" does not mean the whole inhabitable world. It has a very different meaning than oikoumené or kosmos. If St. John meant the "whole inhabitable world" he would have used oikoumené or kosmos in every one of those 73 instances in Revelation.
How that "duty" expresses itself is important. Let us also remember that not every doctrine we disagree with is heresy. We may be convinced it is false, but it is not helpful to consign those we disagree with to the flames of hell. I am not saying that is your intention, but there are those who do just that.
You and I are in agreement on our opposition to KJVO, the Word/Faith movement, and regenerational baptism. However, I am Reformed (Covenant Theology) and an amillennialist. How should you and I approach our disagreements? First, are we within the bounds of orthodoxy? In other words, are our doctrinal distinctives recognized as acceptable belief within orthodox Christianity*? If they are then we cannot rightly say individuals who hold to those views are outside of Christ. Does that mean we must accept those views as equally right to the views we hold to? No! Absolutely not. I have dear Presbyterian friends who practice infant baptism. I disagree with them sharply. When we discuss the issue it can lead to "vigorous debate". But not for one moment do I question their standing in Christ.
Lastly, I feel similar to you when debating against Dispensationalism and Synergism. I believe those doctrinal positions are false. That said, those who hold to those doctrines are my brothers and sisters in Christ. The mistake I have made is allowing personality conflicts with certain individuals impact how I debate on this board. I have taken great care to avoid those conflicts (when possible). Unfortunately, it has lead me to avoid certain individuals. Not all discussions are healthy discussions.
Again, this is not about you, dear brother. We are members of God's kingdom.
*not Eastern or Greek Orthodox, nor Roman Catholicism.
Sorry, Captain, but i must respectfully disagree. When all life in the seas dies, it'll be worldwide. I also suspect that the meteor Scripture calls "Wormwood" will also cause a tsunami.
Then, there's the quake that'll move every island from its place. That's hardly limited to Judea.
The only things limited to Judea will be those events Scripture says will occur in Jerusalem or Judea.
And the same Jesus who made the Jew also made the Aztec. Thus, I believe the references are to the WHOLE WORLD.
- Status