Prevenient Grace

Are you feeling alright webdog?

I am saved now because Christ paid the price that was mine to pay.

LK 1:68 "Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel, because he has come and has redeemed his people.

That is grace. The sacrifice that was offered for me was accepted by my God. When He deemed it time for me to know He let me know of the covenant made between the Father and the Son for me. I was not consulted.

John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

"It is finished." What was finished? The purpose for which He came? Mk 10:45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' " 1 Sam 3:14.

Eli lost his sons because God wanted us to know that the atonement was limited in number.


john.

 

Wow. I'd call that good news, wouldn't you?

 

Rip:

Two examples from this thread:

"The wages of sin is death and if Jesus died for everyone's sins everyone is saved. The price was paid in full. What's so difficult about that?" -- JohnP.

"Of course most non-Cals do not believe in universalism - yet that is the rational end-result that they are forced to come up with if they are consistent. I do agree with one thing you said -- The Lord will indeed save all those He desires to save." -- Rip

Perhaps I've misread you Rip, but the "rational end-result" you indicate -- that "the Lord will save all those He desires," and the sentiment expressed by JohnP., "if Jesus died for everyone's sins is saved," makes my point. Game, set, match....

JDale

 

BINGO!! Ever meet a Christian that didn't need to be taught anything? None of us has arrived there but all have that potential. And some are closer than others. :thumbs:

skypair

 

As a matter of fact, yes. So who's going to win the world series this year?

 

rb, I'm not holding you up for public ridicule. But it is like alcoholism -- if you can't admit your faults, there's no way to begin the healing process. And the fault in this case is a "broken" theology. It held together for a long time but now it doesn't answer some important questions that need answering. And you are honest enough to admit that at least.

So let's start by seriously investigating what the Bible means by God's sovereignty and how He uses it. I say that He allots each of us personal sovereignty and personal responsibility but He is maintains His sovereignty over the consequences.

Now sometimes/often, He tells us what the consequences of exercising our sovereignty one way or another will be, right? If He promises that He will save us if we do X, He will perform it. If He tells us there is a "sin unto death," we ought to know that if we do something willingly wrong continually, we may die as a result of that sin.

Now doesn't that answer a lot of questions right there? We now know why God chooses whom He elects, right? We now know how man is responsible but God is sovereign, right? And I mean, I didn't pull this out of my sleeve nor out of my "free will handbook" -- it's in the Bible! :laugh:

skypair

 

reformbeliever

We ought to be able to change each others' minds if we have the same Spirit, don't you think??

I mean, we've narrowed the discussion down to one between 2 believers and surely one is right, no?

If it weren't for "theologies" but merely a matter of scripture, we'd obviously be on the same page, right?

skypair

 

No, just trying to put "whosoever" in the context it needs to be in. Stating Christ tasted death for whoever doesn't really make much sense. He tasted death for "pas"...all.

 

What??

Who said anything about someone claiming 'all' doesn't mean 'all'. It was in reference to 'all' meaning ALL mankind and NOT 'all sorts of men'. And I was paraphrasing Spurgeon.
Spurgeon Sermon: Salvaiton by knowing Truth. (2 Tim 2:3-4)

From Spurgeon. org

 

oh my, it's Allan:wavey:

 

I to have lots to learn. Just do not throw out something because it does not fit your current view. I only ask that you look at it with a willingness to see if it bears truth, EVEN THOUGH it may be outside the four walls of Calvinism. I to hold to Gods soveriegnty and Mans responsiblity but you may not think I do because it is not as you see it. And the same toward me regarding you. I am glad to have made such a keen friend that keeps my on my toes and tests my understanding as well as my humility. For that and for most due to our Saviour Jesus I also thank and love you brother.

 

Spurgeon, what a tremendous man of God. A Calvinist that said that all man should hear the plan of God's Grace. All men should and must hear so that he can by right choose to answwer the call of God. He wanted man to be saved by the grace of God so much that while he was preaching in the sanctuary up stairs, 200 men were praying down stairs in a room for the salvation of men. Win them, he cryed...And win them, he did.... He gave the call and men (and women)lol of course answered God's call
What a man of God...How many of us are in constant prayer for the souls of man.......Bless be our Lord God
John 3:16,17 what wonderful how plan and simple God makes his truth.........amen

 

Hey Mom!! :wavey: :laugh:

 

I like a quote of Spurgeon Prayer he gave during a Revival Meeting of D.L. Moody.
"...save the elect, and then elect some more!"

 

Amen and amen to that:applause:

 

Of course Spurgeon was kind of joking there Allan . The Lord can not add anyone to the Lamb's book of Life . The enrolled were inscribed before the foundation of the world . None can be added or removed .