Proof Calvinism is the only true doctrine

[MB]

Why is it my responsibility to prove my election to you?

What buisiness would it be of mine to ask you to prove that you had confessed, repented and been baptized?
The proof of salvation is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ... good luck proving on the internet that you have the Holy Spirit living in you. I welcome your attempt so I can see how it is done by a "real Christian" (not one of us "Calvinists" that believe in a soverign God that saves people without any help).

I have confessed repented and been baptized yet this did not save me. Saving me was the work of Jesus Christ Himself.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
We can't even be justified with out faith, much less Saved with out faith.
MB

 

[MB]

[John 12:32 NASB] 32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

Please explain how the people living in Mesoamerica (Mexico, Columbia, Nicaragua, Honduras, etc.) ... the Aztec, Mayan and Inca cultures ... were DRAWN to Jesus Christ from AD 33 (the crucifixion where Christ was lifted up) to AD 1400 (before the first Europeans arrived and they ever heard about Jesus)?

I can't explain why they never heard. This is a question that only God would know the answer to yet your doubt does not mean they didn't hear of Him.

They are part of ALL (every individual without exception).
I keep hearing "ALL MEANS ALL" but I have this problem called "REALITY" that gets in the way of my understanding what the heck you people really mean.

What can I say;
Maybe you should not use the term if you're confused about it. It's just that for you it means all inclusive when it's convenient for you, but for me I just don't have the intelligence to use the word. Christ said all men In Jn 12:32. Maybe you should scold Him for being contrary to what you believe.
I don't understand why you seem upset. I'm not upset and everything you've said I disagree with. Can't you have a discussion allowing those who do not accept Calvinism tell you why?
MB

 

[Dave G]

I never got to "Limited Atonement" on my own because it never occurred to me to care who Christ had died for (some or all) ... it was enough that JESUS had died for ME.

Yeah, me, too.
I finally did after much further study...but it took a long time.

I was a "4-pointer" for over 13 years.

 

[Dave G]

Calvinism falls apart when it comes to infant death and/or abortion.

The word of God falls apart when trying to answer those scenarios?

Psalms 58:3.
Romans 3:23.
Romans 3:10-12.
Ecclesiastes 7:20.

The answers are right on the pages.

 

[Dave G]

Saving me was the work of Jesus Christ Himself.

I agree.

Matthew 1:21.
John 10:27-29.
John 17:2.

We can't even be justified with out faith, much less Saved with out faith.

I agree.

Romans 1:17.
Romans 4:1-8.
Galatians 3:11.
Hebrews 10:38.

 

[MB]

Yeah, me, too.
I finally did after much further study...but it took a long time.

I was a "4-pointer" for over 13 years.

Christ said;
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
You worked so hard to find something so false.
MB

 

[Dave G]

Christ said;
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. <----- Labor for what, and are heavy laden with what?
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. <------ Learn what of Him? Rest from what?
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. <----- My burden has been lightened. All my sins were laid on Him at the cross ( Colossians 2:13-14, Isaiah 53:4-6 ).
You worked so hard to find something so false.<----- When you can answer these questions above from God's word alone, then you will know what I believe and why, MB. He is all sufficient for me and His words are precious.

My replies in green within the body of your quote.

You worked so hard to find something so false.

" And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks." ( Acts of the Apostles 9:5 ).

" Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." ( 2 Timothy 2:15 ).

 

[MB]

Poor Dave he works so hard for his salvation Persevere persevere.
MB

 

[Dave G]

Poor Dave he works so hard for his salvation Persevere persevere.

Perseverance of the Saints:

" All who are chosen by God ( Psalms 65:4, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ), redeemed by Christ ( Ephesians 1:7, Colossians 1:14 ), and given faith by the Spirit ( Romans 10:17, Ephesians 2:8 ) are eternally saved ( John 3:16, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:39, John 10:28-29 ). They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God ( 1 Peter 1:5 ) and thus persevere to the end ( Matthew 24:13 )."

Perseverance in the faith is the evidence of salvation... not an effort that results in eternal life, MB.

My own worthless efforts don't save me... all my works are as filthy rags ( Isaiah 64:6 ).
It is His mercy alone that I'm relying on ( Titus 3:5-6 ).
Even the privilege of belief, which was given to me ( Philippians 1:29 ), is a direct result of God's grace.

Christ's efforts on the cross are the only thing worth mentioning, and it is His suffering, dying and being raised again that has any merit in God's eyes.

 

[MB]

Perseverance of the Saints:

" All who are chosen by God ( Psalms 65:4, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ), redeemed by Christ ( Ephesians 1:7, Colossians 1:14 ), and given faith by the Spirit ( Romans 10:17, Ephesians 2:8 ) are eternally saved ( John 3:16, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:39, John 10:28-29 ). They are kept in faith by the power of Almighty God ( 1 Peter 1:5 ) and thus persevere to the end ( Matthew 24:13 )."

Perseverance in the faith is the evidence of salvation... not an effort that results in eternal life, MB.

My own worthless efforts don't save me... all my works are as filthy rags ( Isaiah 64:6 ).
It was His mercy alone that I'm relying on ( Titus 3:5-6 ).
Even the privilege of belief, which was given to me ( Philippians 1:29 ), is a direct result of God's grace.

Christ's efforts on the cross are the only thing worth mentioning, and it is His suffering, dying and being raised again that has any merit in God's eyes.

Careful Dave the things you post do not support your position. Perseverance is working to keep the faith and that's how it is
MB

 

[MB]

The true definition of perseverance;
1. Persistence in any thing undertaken; continued pursuit or prosecution of any business or enterprise begun; applied alike to good or evil.
Like I said it's working to keep your Salvation. Ask you early church fathers.
Better yet ask John Mac Arthur
MB

 

[Dave G]

Careful Dave the things you post do not support your position. Perseverance is working to keep the faith and that's how it is

I post what I understand from God's word, MB...not from the teachings of John Calvin.

Persevering is believing without fail, over the entire course of one's life, in Christ and His finished work on the cross for the sinner.
Faith...
The opposite of "falling away".

The true definition of perseverance;
1. Persistence in any thing undertaken; continued pursuit or prosecution of any business or enterprise begun; applied alike to good or evil.

That's man's definition of perseverance.

God's definition is His children...
" For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith." ( 1 John 5:4 ).

Their faith in their Saviour and His finished work on the cross for them.

But it is even better defined in their Saviour Himself, who went to the cross and suffered and died for them.
He could have come down off that cross, but He didn't.

He persevered in His work for them.

 

[Dave G]

Ask you early church fathers.

I don't read them, and never had any use for anything they ever said or taught, if it didn't agree with Scripture.

What the Lord's apostles said, now that is far different.
That is God's word.

Better yet ask John Mac Arthur

Who?
Is he is the Bible?

You do know that he teaches "Lordship Salvation", don't you?
Like many men, he teaches that perseverance is a requirement, not an evidence.

In other words, he says that people have to persevere to end up being saved...
Instead of perseverance in the faith being a product of being saved.

One is something a man has to do, in and of himself.
The other is something that occurs by necessity, and it is a result of God's work in the believer through the Holy Ghost.


Believers persevere because they are saved, not to gain salvation.

 

[Dave G]

I'm going to turn this back over to @atpollard.
I believe you were asking him questions?

I bid you a good evening, sir.

 

[MB]

I don't read them, and never had any use for anything they ever said or taught, if it didn't agree with Scripture.

What the Lord's apostles said, now that is far different.
That is God's word.

Who?
Is he is the Bible?

You do know that he teaches "Lordship Salvation", don't you?
Like many men, he teaches that perseverance is a requirement, not an evidence.

In other words, he says that people have to persevere to end up being saved...
Instead of perseverance in the faith being a product of being saved.

One is something a man has to do, in and of himself.
The other is something that occurs by necessity, and it is a result of God's work in the believer through the Holy Ghost.


Believers persevere because they are saved, not to gain salvation.

We don't work for Salvation or work to keep it. If we work at all it can only be because of our love of God and our neighbors. It's not for perseverance. It's for love only. We are already kept by the power of God.

MB.

 

[utilyan]

I don't read them, and never had any use for anything they ever said or taught, if it didn't agree with Scripture.

What the Lord's apostles said, now that is far different.
That is God's word.

Who?
Is he is the Bible?

You do know that he teaches "Lordship Salvation", don't you?
Like many men, he teaches that perseverance is a requirement, not an evidence.

In other words, he says that people have to persevere to end up being saved...
Instead of perseverance in the faith being a product of being saved.

One is something a man has to do, in and of himself.
The other is something that occurs by necessity, and it is a result of God's work in the believer through the Holy Ghost.


Believers persevere because they are saved, not to gain salvation.

You got it backwards......AGAIN.

Matthew 10:22

You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

 

[atpollard]

Calvinism falls apart when it comes to infant death and/or abortion.

Does that mean that no infants have died since the 1500’s or that Calvinism no longer exists?

I am confused about what you are trying to say.

Just for the record, how does MY dead son prove that people are capable of choosing God without the the Father first drawing them (refuting Total Inability)? How does his death prove that God chooses to predestine people for salvation because God knows that they will eventually say yes (refuting Unconditional Election)? How does the death of a baby prove that Jesus was punished for the sins of people that God will ultimately punish in Hell for those same sins (demanding double payment and refuting Limited Atonement)? How does an abortion prove that people have the power to resist the will of God in a way that Jonah and Moses never could (refuting Irresistible Grace)? How does any death indicate that scripture told a half truth and some will slip from between the hands of the Father and the Son from salvation into damnation (refuting Perseverance of the Saints)?

I look forward to your explanation.

 

[atpollard]

There is only one problem and that is your story of Salvation is contrary to scripture. Scripture never even suggest such a thing is possible.

And yet, here I am.
Chatting on a Christian site and not running drugs or defending my territory.

"For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush.” [Luke 6:44]

 

[atpollard]

yet your doubt does not mean they didn't hear of Him.

 

[MB]

And yet, here I am.
Chatting on a Christian site and not running drugs or defending my territory.

"For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush.” [Luke 6:44]

Running drugs and defending your territory doesn't impress me, Even though you seem very proud of it.
MB