Protestant Purgatory?

[Diggin in da Word]

One who has accepted Christ as Savior and Lord, and has experienced the mercies that are new every morning, will not stop believing in Him.

You can lie all you want, you can twist the Scripture all you want, but it just don't happen.

Your seeds of doubt and accusation come straight from the pit of hell.

 

[BobRyan]

And so "Protestant Purgatory" is in fact a myth IF one seeks to "imagine" that after death - the saints are tormented and BURNED in FIRE - as we see some claiming here in 1Cor 3 bending the text to IGNORE the TEACHING that is being burned away and pretending that the text speaks of "saints dying and then being burned".

How sad.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

1 Cor 3
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.
7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.
8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

The “reward” is specific to the one who ‘labors’ and in this case the ones “laboring” are Paul and Apollos. The rewards are specific to the evangelist that is “Doing the work”. And their work is supposed to “build up” the church – one building on the work of another. Paul says “I planted, Apollos watered”

Here we see the “good work” (good teaching) of two laborers (two evangelists) and the result is the building up of the church of God – with gospel “rewards” coming to the evangelists..

So far this has nothing to do with “murder getting less reward than loving your neighbor” as if the difference between sin and obedience is “less reward”. Nothing of the kind is being discussed in this chapter on evangelists and the teaching of evangelists!

1 Cor 3
9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are [b]God's field, God's building. [/b]
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.

Not this is “very specific”. The evangelists are said to be co-workers with God Himself in “building up the church of God”. Paul argues that these evangelists are to be “careful how they build” – Careful about the doctrine – the teaching that they provide. Careful that their Gospel teaching is Christ-centered.

1Cor 3
11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.[/b]

Clearly the point is made that the “quality teaching” is that which is built upon the ONE foundation – the only true foundation (bedrock – Petra) of the church Jesus Christ.

It is the error – that God purges away. Error in doctrine, in Gospel teaching that will not stand. The subject is the same – the context is the same – the issue is the same. The quality of the doctrine/teaching of the various evangelists that are building the church of God as “co-workers” with God.

So far this has nothing to do with “murder getting less reward than loving your neighbor” as if the difference between sin and obedience is “less reward”. Nothing of the kind is being discussed in this chapter on evangelists and the teaching of evangelists!

The good news is that Paul predicts that those evangelists who DO bring error into the church will eventually have that error burned away. The faithful people of God will follow the Holy Spirit (ultimately) instead of the errors of man – no matter how “good intentioned” those errors are -

1 Cor 3
14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 [b]If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss[/b]; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

So in the case of the sincere evangelist who happens to introduce some error – the promise is that it will be tested over time – it will be burned away and the pure church will remain. The “builder” (evangelist – co-worker with God) will still be saved IF their error is not malicious or deliberate – but the error must be removed just the same.

So far this has nothing to do with “murder getting less reward than loving your neighbor” as if the difference between sin and obedience is “less reward”. Nothing of the kind is being discussed in this chapter on evangelists and the teaching of evangelists!

There is no mention here of death-then-burning (as if purgatory could be inserted here). There is no mention here of the Evangelists becoming murderers but “being saved anyway”.

All the little twists and turns (spin doctoring) that various traditions would try to insert in the chapter – just aren’t here.

1Cor 6 addresses the problem of ‘bad deeds” in the church and it says “be not deceived” …

1Cor 3 deals with the problem of the purity of doctrine that will come into the church as various “co-workers with God” seek to build up the church. There is no good way to confuse the two chapters – or mix up their content.

 

[Lacy Evans]

Scripture please?

Diggin callin for da sctiptcha!

22. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water

Who is the us? Is The-Writer-Of-Hebrews (IMHO, Paul) including himself? SAVED!

23. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

Hold fast a "False confession?" I think not!

24. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Stupid Paul, don't he know they come automatically!

25. Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

SAVED! It has to be. are you ready to say that there is "no sacrifice" for an unbeliever who sins willfully? There is only one sacrifice, Jesus Christ. It has already been applied to us and we can't apply it presumptuously to cover sins for which we stand to be chastened. That is the only possible explanation of this verse.

27. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Sanctified by the blood! There is no reference to a non-believer, a Jew in the trib, a "false professor, or any other such nonsense.

30. For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

It is and it always has been, even in the old covenant, a fearful thing for "His people" to "fall into" his hands.

Lacy

 

[J. Jump]

One who has accepted Christ as Savior and Lord, and has experienced the mercies that are new every morning, will not stop believing in Him.

Diggin please do what your name suggests and dig in the word and find some Scripture to back up your statement. I can't find any that says a believer will never stop believing.

I know man makes that claim, but I've never seen that claim backed up with Scripture. Wonder why that is?

 

[BobRyan]

#1 there are those who believe in OSAS and deny the Bible teaching on perseverance. (So they would be most like - strong 4 point Calvinists - but very unlike 3 and 5 point Calvinists - and they would be very weak Arminians if they took that view).

#2. Therer are those who ACCEPT the Bible teaching on Perseverance while also embracing the doctrinal error of OSAS. (So that could either be a strong position for 3 and 5 point Calvinists -- or again a weak position for Arminians).

#3. There are those who strongly support the Bible teaching on Perseverance while also consistently and strongly opposing the man-made tradition of OSAS. (That would be the strong Arminian position and would not be any of the Calvinist ones).

You can see it all - on this board.

However it is the doctrinal error of OSAS and the 4 Point Calvinist view combined that leaves people casting about them for some kind of "Protestant Purgatory". Whereas in the RCC they need no OSAS to believe in purgatory.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Arminians have the assurance of salvation today but claim they may CHOOSE to lose it in the future.

NOTE:
(However - Calvinists don't even have that. Calvin accepted the teaching of scripture on the subject of perseverance of the saints and married it to Calvinism by retroactively revoking salvation for those who CLAIMED the promises but later FAILED to persevere. In Calvinism all the Bible promises and Christian walk you have today equals no assurance at all - nothing - if you do not persevere in the FUTURE. It is retroactively revoked.

But as with all Calvinist teaching - the test above is self-conflicted in that IF you fall away - THEN you did not fall away since you were lost the entire time and so you had nothing to fall FROM.

Fascinating - just fascinating!! Reminds me of the stellar thinking used to defend purgatory!!)

Testing the Arminian POV means that we would "expect" to find scriptures talking about

"you are IN Christ and doing well and will be ultimately taken to heaven IF you continue in that saved relationship and do not choose to FALL AWAY from
that condition - thus LOSING what you had".

=======================================

But BOTH Arminian and Calvinist do agree on one thing - the Bible does teach that ONLY those who persevere to the END are ultimately saved.

Under 5 point (TULIP) Calvinism you can't really know if you're saved today until you know if you will persevere tomorrow.

In Arminianism you CAN know you are saved today no matter WHAT you choose to do tomorrow.

So is it true that scripture leaves them "without excuse" for thinking that there is "no such thing as failing to endure"??

=========================================

Matt 10:22 but it is he who has endured until the end that will be saved.

Heb 2:1-3
1. For this reason we must pay close attention to what have heard lest we drift away from it

Heb 3:6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence
and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

Heb 3:12-14
12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called ""Today,'' so that none of you will be hardened
by the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,


Heb 10:35-39
35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.
38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

1Cor 15:1-2
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received,
in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
Rom 11:22
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness,
if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Col 1:21-23
22 He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death in order to PRESENT you before Him
Holy and Blameless and beyond reproach
23 IF INDEED you CONTINUE in the faith FIRMLY established and STEADFAST and NOT MOVED AWAY
from the HOPE of the Gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven
and of which I Paul was made a minister.


Rev 2:7,11,17,26 3:5, 12,21 Eternal life to 'he who overcomes'

 

[BobRyan]

Gal 6:7-9 Don't lose heart in doing good for reap et life IF we ..
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the
Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.

Mark 13:13 Belief + enduring to the END = SAVED
Matthew 24:13 ""But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved."

Matthew 10:22 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one
who has endured to the end who will be saved."

2Peter 1:10-11
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true
knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as
you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
[/quote]


Stated that REAL Examples of such failure exist.

2Peter 2:20-22

18 For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality,
those who barely escape from the ones who live in error,
19 promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.
20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it,
to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "" A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,'' and,
""A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.''

Heb 6:4-8
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been
made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify
to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open same.

Peter points out that only the saints are those who are “Partakers of the Holy Spirit” having “tasted the heavenly gift” AND “the powers of the age to come”

1 Pet 5

1Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed,

The “saved” experience is never called “worthless” with the result that one “ends up being burned”. Notice that Paul shows this to be the END of the person – not a mere “trial” by fire to be endured as we go on to even better things!. He says “Ends up being burned”!

Heb 6
7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also
tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

 

[BobRyan]

Simple Question for Calvinists and OSAS promoters – who is the “WE” and the “US” in the following text?

What is the meaning of “He Also will deny US”?

2 Tim 2[/b]
11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
12 [b]If we endure, we will also reign with Him; [b]If we deny[/b] Him, He also [b]will deny us;[/b]
13 [b]If we are faithless[/b], He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
14 Remind them of these things[/b], and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers.


In fact it is the condition of the “Shipwreck of faith” that Paul has already warned Timothy about. The very condition that OSAS denies.

1Tim 1
18This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them[/b] you fight the good fight,
19keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.
20Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be [b]taught not to blaspheme. [/quote]

It is as James says – a soul in death – doomed.

James 5
19-20, "My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back[/b], let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins."
[/quote]

How can wander from the truth if they were never in the truth?

What is the result of bringing them back? “Save their soul from death”.

This also shows that the sins committed AFTER coming to Christ – DO count! “And will cover a multitude of sins”!. Hence the instruction in 1John 1:9 “If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us… AND to cleans us “ and this is post conversion for John says 1John 2:1 “These things I write to you that you sin not BUT if anyone does sin” (after coming to Christ) we “ have an advocate with the Father”. The fact of sin, sinning, repentance, forgiveness AFTER salvation is stated clearly.



The striving involved in perseverance –

1Cor 9
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, [b]but we an imperishable[/b].
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27 but I discipline my body[/b] and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached (the Gospel) to others, I myself will not be disqualified
[/quote]

The OSAS doctrine guts the very core of the “motivation” we see in 1Cor 9 as Paul EXPLICITLY says “LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I MYSELF should be disqualified”. OSAS goes after that point – directly, explicitly and without remorse.


"Take pains with these things" -- why?

1Tim 4
14 Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.
15 [/quote]

Take pains with these things; be absorbed in them, so that your progress will be evident to all.
16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.

Paul shows himself doing this very thing “in order that I may lay hold of that for which I was laid hold of by Christ”

2Peter 1:10-11
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true
knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For [b]he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted[/b], having [b]forgotten[/b] his purification from his former sins[/b].
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as
you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
[/quote]

This shows forgiveness of former sins in the purification of justification and sanctification. It does not show a cart blanch covering for all future sins. (We just saw this in James 5 above)

These texts also do not describe a defacto “drift into heaven”.

But rather a “pressing on” as in Phil 3 and a “buffeting” as in 1Cor 9.


Phil 3
7 But [b]whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss[/b] for the sake of Christ.
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things[/b], and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
10 [b]that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings[/b], being conformed to His death;
11 [b]in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have [b]already obtained[/b] it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of[/b] by Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, [b]I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet[/b]; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
14 I [b]press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.[/quote]
And the prize is explicitly stated by Paul “ gain Christ” and “attain to the resurrection from the dead” – not that I have already obtained it.

How can anyone read these clear texts and water them down to “that is just diligent effort for effort’s sake not to actually attain or gain or retain or hold on to anything”??

The effort to persevere – endure – involves “taking pains” and “being absorbed” with these things. Specifically to walk in the Spirit and by the Spirit to “put to death the deeds of the flesh”.

Rom 8
12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live[/b].
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again[/b], but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "" Abba! Father!''
16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God[/b],
[/quote]

 

[BobRyan]

I realize of course that to one really steeped in man-made-tradition this is all just "so much more scripture to be ignored" in favor of "casting about you for more speculation on Protestant Purgatory" -- but I have faith that there are readers who will value the text of scripture even on this sensitive and unpopular topic.

 

[Hope of Glory]

#1 there are those who believe in OSAS and deny the Bible teaching on perseverance. (So they would be most like - strong 4 point Calvinists - but very unlike 3 and 5 point Calvinists - and they would be very weak Arminians if they took that view).

#2. Therer are those who ACCEPT the Bible teaching on Perseverance while also embracing the doctrinal error of OSAS. (So that could either be a strong position for 3 and 5 point Calvinists -- or again a weak position for Arminians).

#3. There are those who strongly support the Bible teaching on Perseverance while also consistently and strongly opposing the man-made tradition of OSAS. (That would be the strong Arminian position and would not be any of the Calvinist ones).

You can see it all - on this board.

However it is the doctrinal error of OSAS and the 4 Point Calvinist view combined that leaves people casting about them for some kind of "Protestant Purgatory". Whereas in the RCC they need no OSAS to believe in purgatory.

In Christ,

Bob

And here, my point is reiterated quite well. These passages must either be saying that we can lose our spiritual salvation, or we can lose something else.

Although I disagree with you about losing your spiritual salvation, BobRyan, at least you don't stick your fingers in your ears and go "nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah" when you hear these verses.

 

[Linda64]

Ephesians 4:4-6 clearly shows that the body of Christ is NOT divided--it is ONE.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (Ephesians 4:4)

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (Ephesians 4:5)

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Ephesians 4:6)

In your trying to divide the Body of Christ, you are proving that your heart truly indeed is "deceitful and desperately wicked." (Jeremiah 17:9) By dividing the Body of Christ, you are questioning God's Word, just as your father (John 8:44) did in the Garden of Eden.

 

[BobRyan]

Linda - is there are point to that? What point are you complaining about?

 

[Linda64]

Linda - is there are point to that? What point are you complaining about?

Yes, Bob, there is a point to what I posted. If you go back to my opening post, the topic -- Protestant Purgatory-- concerns the dividing up of the Body of Christ into the "haves" and "have nots"-- some of the saved, the "have nots", as some are teaching here, will be cast out into outer darkness for 1,000 years, and the "haves" will inherit the Kingdom. Those who do not inherit the Kingdom will be "purged" for 1,000 years and brought back out. This teaching is similar to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory (which is false).

 

[BobRyan]

Hmm - here is another surprise -- I am in complete agreement with Linda on something.

Will wonders never cease!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Methinks the ME Proponents who have been posting in here (and many other ME Proponents) are following a cult. Their leader seems to be Zane Hodges instead of the Holy Spirit.

All they quote from and adhere to is Zane Hodges teachings without any regard to what the Word of God truly says.

They pull Scripture out of content to prove that Christ will cast those who placed their trust in Him into outer darkness. The Word of God tells us Christ is not divided, yet thise brainwashed ME Proponents are trying to amputate part of the Body of Christ.

 

[DHK]

Methinks the ME Proponents who have been posting in here (and many other ME Proponents) are following a cult. Their leader seems to be Zane Hodges instead of the Holy Spirit.

All they quote from and adhere to is Zane Hodges teachings without any regard to what the Word of God truly says.

They pull Scripture out of content to prove that Christ will cast those who placed their trust in Him into outer darkness. The Word of God tells us Christ is not divided, yet thise brainwashed ME Proponents are trying to amputate part of the Body of Christ.

I would check our Joey Faust. I believe he is the real promoter of this type of "theology."

 

[Diggin in da Word]

While Faust and Hodges differ in their theology in where the KE saints will go (outer darkness or hades), I believe you may be right. Either way, it is sad that anyone would adhere to doctrines such as this cult teaches, i.e. Kingdom Exclusion, Two Salvations, a true believer can reject Christ and still be saved... all doctrines of devils and truly leading many astray.

 

[Linda64]

Check out these sites for the teachings of J. D. Faust:


http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/faustfd.htm

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/hodgesas.htm

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/faust.htm

J.D. Faust published a book in 2002 entitled The Rod--Will God Spare It? It was published by Schoettle Publishing Company, the same company that published Joseph Dillow's book, The Reign of the Servant Kings. This publishing house specializes in authors (such as Govett, Lang, Panton, Pember, etc.) who teach that unfaithful saved people will be excluded from the kingdom (or in Dillow's case, excluded from reigning with Christ). Many of these men also believe in a partial rapture (Dillow does not). Faust believes in "partial immortality," that is, only some believers are raised to immortality, but unfaithful believers are raised in mortal bodies and then are slain at the judgment seat and sent to be punished in the underworld for a thousand years. He teaches that the unfaithful believers will not be raised to immortality until after the millennium.

*************************************************************

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/hodgeshp.htm

These men divide Christ's beloved body and bride into two distinct groups with two distinct destinies. They teach that a large number of believers will not inherit the kingdom of God. Faust's position is the most extreme in that he teaches that many believers will be excluded from Christ's kingdom, will briefly be tortured by the second death and then will be punished for a thousand years in the fires of Hades.

Hodges, Dillow and Wilkin teach a more moderate view, but they insist that many believers will be cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, and that they will be excluded from the joys and privileges of the millennial kingdom. They will not reign with Christ and they will not inherit the kingdom. They also teach that a person can totally deny the faith, live wickedly and persistently in sin, reject the truths of the Gospel, totally abandon Jesus Christ, reject His saving grace, and yet be counted among the redeemed in the end.

The teachings of Faust are far more serious and far more extreme, and we seek to warn believers regarding his false teachings.

 

[BobRyan]

Something like "true saved Christians but not saints"???

That does sound a little RC-ish