Prozac

[I Am Blessed 24]

That's at Rapture Ready not at the BB. And may be one of the reasons the BB is still #1!!!!

I have never even heard of it so it must not be as close as you think.

I didn't realize that BaptistBoard.com was in competition with anyone.

Charles Meadows is not giving medical advice, but rather is trying to clear up the misconceptions held by some posters on this thread...

Forget it Charles.......these few are people who do not WANT to learn. They just want to complain, judge, and condemn. Just ignore them and keep helping people as you have been and I, for one, thank you for that.

I get so sick and tired of hearing "Snap out of it and pull yourself up by your bootstraps."

A severly depressed person can't even FIND their bootstraps! The decision to get out of bed in the morning is a monumental step forward!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
Chet, ... Your off the cuff (as well as biblically and medically incorrect) commentary could severely hurt a believer who is suffering (yes I said suffering) from depression and who IS asking God to help him/her through it.

Amen, Brother Charles Meadows -- Preach it!

Hebrews 12:1-14 (HCSB):

Therefore since we also have such a large cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us lay aside every weight and the sin that so easily ensnares us, and run with endurance the race that lies before us,
2 keeping our eyes on Jesus, the source and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that lay before Him endured a cross and despised the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of God's throne.
3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, so that you won't grow weary and lose heart.

4 In struggling against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
5 And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: My son, do not take the Lord's discipline lightly, or faint when you are reproved by Him;
6 for the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and punishes every son whom He receives.
7 Endure it as discipline: God is dealing with you as sons. For what son is there whom a father does not discipline?
8 But if you are without discipline--which all receive--then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
9 Furthermore, we had natural fathers discipline us, and we respected them. Shouldn't we submit even more to the Father of spirits and live?
10 For they disciplined us for a short time based on what seemed good to them, but He does it for our benefit, so that we can share His holiness.
11 No discipline seems enjoyable at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it yields the fruit of peace and righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
12 Therefore strengthen your tired hands and weakened knees,
13 and make straight paths for your feet,
so that what is lame may not be dislocated, but healed instead.
14 Pursue peace with everyone, and holiness--without it no one will see the Lord.
15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no root of bitterness springs up, causing trouble and by it, defiling many.

The things you are to do:

Strengthen
make straight paths
pursue peace and holiness
see to it

Doing these mental/spiritual exercises while
depressed is much like trying to swim with
full 15th century body armor - in other words impossible.
There are circumstances where substitutory brain chemical
replacement are necessary.

Does God use depression and other forms of mental
illness to spank His children?

"we had natural fathers discipline us, and we respected them"
I know i was a natural father. I never spanked my child
enough to scar them or draw blood. I don't think God
does much of that either. I really can't see God
as some meanie that puts diabeties on some small child
as punishment for the sin of crying in the crib too much.
I can't see Jesus whipping his eldery saints with
Alzhiemers. I can't the Almighty God our Provider
lashing an erring child with cancer (many cancers are
unmeasurable/untestable when they are small and can
be successfully treated).
It rains on the just and the unjust alike.

God is good, all the time.
All the time, God is good.

 

[Charles Meadows]

Yep!!

I cannot give medical advice on the net - our department attorneys would freak out!

I do think it is important to clear things up since as I said these off the cuff comments by people who don't really know this subject can be devastating. I don't use spit fire but I'm making an exception here because I think this is important!

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by I Am Blessed 16:
1. Charles Meadows is not giving medical advice, but rather is trying to clear up the misconceptions held by some posters on this thread...

2. They just want to complain, judge, and condemn.

3. Just ignore them and keep helping people as you have been and I, for one, thank you for that.

4. I get so sick and tired of hearing "Snap out of it and pull yourself up by your bootstraps."

5. A severly depressed person can't even FIND their bootstraps!

6. The decision to get out of bed in the morning is a monumental step forward!

1. He has failed miserably. I have no interest in changing the Scripture in light of a modern theory used by lost people to explain sin. Oh btw, nice company.

2. I have not complained, judged, or condemned anyone. If I said the homosexual was in sin, I still would not be complaining, judging, or condemning. I realize you don't have any substantial takes against my position, so you resort to this kind of character smearing. I won't sink to that level though.

3. Yes Charles, please ignore the ones who are calling you back to Scripture as your authority. You wouldn't want to check with Scripture at all even. It would just get in your way.

4. I have never said that. In fact, I never will say that. Perhaps you are addressing someone else.

5. So now it is the SEVERELY depressed. What about the mildly depressed? He he.

6. Wow, so laziness and self-pity can be glossed over by depression. Man, my job as a preacher just got a lot easier. I can wipe away all kinds of sin if I just know the right drug to control them with, errrrrgggggg, prescribe.

Sorry folks, none of you will even deal with Phil. 4 (among a host of other texts), so it is obvious that you don't really care about truth.

 

[Charles Meadows]

Daniel David,

You're a preacher?

You really need to learn something about mental illness! Man, people look to you! No one would ever suggest that Christians should not seek God's help if they are suffering from depression! But there is no mention in the bible about SSRIs, which by the way are not addictive and do NOT give one a buzz.

As far as scripture I already explained what Philippians 4 means - you must have missed that.

Didn't you say you were 25 in a prior post? Hopefully you'll learn things a little better at some point - and I hope it's not by someone committing suicide after being counselled by you!

 

[Glory Bound]

Chet:

The problem with the chemical imbalance view it two fold. First it is a theory, it is not proven. For even the Zoloft commercials admit to this.

No, that's not exactly accurate. It is possible to KNOW that the normal balance of chemicals is out of balance. Besides, understanding the full brain function, and all of the chemical interactions is not always necessary to acheive a solution to the problem.

Some people may not understand what really happens when a light switch is flipped on the wall... but they understand the end result - light.

We may not fully understand how all of the chemicals in the brain work - but we can tell if certain treatment returns a person to their normal thinking behavior. This does not mean "doped up", as some are fond of saying. I'm saying "normal".

Second, even if there were a chemical imbalance, why would we be quick to assume that this happens without cause? Perhaps these chemicals are released due to what one is thinking.

Ahh. So it sounds as if you DO attribute it to a chemical imbalance. Except you've gone one step further, and attributed the imbalance to a specific cause: thinking certain thoughts. If this were true, I'd think depressed people would quickly spiral out of control. Think depressed thoughts -> chemical imbalance -> more depressed thoughts -> more chemical imbalance -> more depressed thought... suicide.

Paul gives us, in the clearest of terms, the answer to this.

When you use the phrase "clearest of terms" then we have the right to expect the "terms" to directly apply to our subject... let's see:

Pray with thanksgiving, think on these things, then of course die to self etc…

Where is the "clearest of terms" here? Where is the mention of mental illness? Perhaps you need to be more specific, or else stop reading so much into words like "think".

To go to a mind altering drug is no different than running down to the local bar and pouring out your sorrows in a bottle of whisky. We have a God who can council us.

"Mind altering?" Funny, you don't seem to mind "blood pressure" altering, or "blood glucose" altering drugs. The anti-depressant medications are intended to RETURN the mind to it's normal function when it's been ALTERED by the chemical imbalance. Just as blood pressure medicine helps return blood pressure to normal levels, the anti-depressant medication helps return the brain chemical to proper balance.

Do you ever get headaches and take medicine to relieve the pain? Ever try to prove to someone you actually have a headache, and a need to take that mind altering drug to get rid of the pain?

Charles - I thank God for Christian doctors! Thanks for your input!!!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Priscilla Ann:
I prayed to God for many years for relief from the depression and eating disorder, and God answered my prayers through several excellent doctors and an appropriate dose of Prozac. I am so thankful!

God Bless!
Priscilla Ann

Thank you Sister
Priscilla Ann for your lovely testimonial
example of the truth of the scripture:

Philippians 4:19 (KJV1611):
But my God shall supply ALL YOUR NEED,
according to his riches in glory, by
Christ Iesus.

May the name of Iesus be praised! Amen!

 

[Priscilla Ann]

Ed Edwards:

Thank you for your kind words.

I really left out the best part of the story. The relief from depression was only the beginning. As my depression lifted, and I realized that God had answered my prayers and provided what was needed for my healing and emotional health, I began to trust God in other areas of my life as well. My relationships improved at home and at work. My hunger for God's Word increased, and my faith has grown. If someone had told me 15 years ago how God would make the depression work for good, I don't think I would have believed it.

God's Word is true: "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28

God certainly used my depression to accomplish good in my life, and for others close to me.

Priscilla Ann

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by I Am Blessed 16:
Charles Meadows is not giving medical advice, but rather is trying to clear up the misconceptions held by some posters on this thread...

Amen, Sister I Am
Blessed 16. Nor did i intend to imply
nor suggest that Charles Meadows was giving
medical advise. He was not.

However, i did imply and intend and mean
that the "some posters on this thread"
were giving medical advice.
They were telling that they were NOT
to take their meds.
God had given these people medical personnel who
could help them with prescription medicine.

There are some posters on this board who
are not doctors who are giving medical
advice.

[ May 09, 2004, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Ed Edwards ]

 

[ShagNappy]

Get ready to cry hillbillies.... They have linked depression, as well as other anxiety disorders like OCD, to a genetic defect making it a birth defect like downs syndroms and physical deformaties. You gomers ready to start calling all those folks sinners to?

I think it's amazing somebody can watch a commerical, completely and totally fail to grasp what is actually being said, and can come to a conclusion that a medication is a sin, while others aren't. What amazing research. I'll go watch a commercial for a auto repair school and build me a car from the ground up tomorrow afternoon. How about going and doing actual research. Real research before you open your mouth and prove you don't have two clues to rub together.

 

[littlewhitedove]

I had hoped that the unlearned had learned something by now but maybe there is no hope for them. I pray they never have depression, they would not live over it.

This is so depressing

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
Daniel David,

You're a preacher?

Yea, that is the really sad part, and he is young too. He will be spewing this junk theology for years to come. Judging by his advice so far, he will be the spiritual equivalent of a Typhoid Mary. There will be a wake of devastated people he leaves in his wake as he continues down his trail of self-righteousness.

 

[Lorelei]

Where does the Scripture tell us that there is a medical condition that will keep us from experiencing joy, which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit?

Please do not offer me explanations that try to say that the Joy of the Holy Spirit can be experienced in spite of Depression. Depression is defined as the exact opposite of joy.

In fact, do not offer me any explanations at all, just share with me Scripture that proves that depression is a clinical disease.

Then, when you have shown me Scriptural proof, please explain how come the Apostle Paul, James, Peter and Christ himself failed to recognize this fact. Explain to me how come christians were expected experience joy before "mental illnesses" began to be recognized in the 1950's.

There are people here who simply believe in the sufficiency of Christ for all that is necessary for life and godliness, and that joy WILL Be part of a believer's life as promised in God's Word. When you label these people as "judgmental" and "devastating" you are saying that the Apostle Paul, James, Peter and Christ Himself were the same way.

Matt 6:30-34
O you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. NIV

Didn't Christ know that there was a "clinical" disease that made it impossible for people NOT to worry? Shouldn't he have prescribed Prozac or some other medication? Christ said the person that worries has little faith. Is that advice equivalent of a Typhoid Mary????

Phil 4:6
6 Do not be anxious about anything,
(NIV)

I guess Paul did not WANT To learn, he just wanted to complain, judge and condemn. If only Paul could have seen the Paxil commercial that tells us that anxiety is a disorder, not a choice! Poor niave Paul.

The Bible was written by men who were inspired of the Holy Spirit. These men tell us that emotions are choices and that those who are filled with the Holy Spirit and walk in that same Spirit will experience joy, love, peace etc.

Man decided only about 50 years ago that emotions were illnesses rather than choices. This helps man excuse his behavior instead of holding him accountable for it. That is NOT Scritpural.

Our bodies can go to a physician when they are sick, but our minds are to be controlled by Christ. Don't confuse what is happening in the brain with the mind. Sceince equates the two because science doesn't believe that there is anything beyond our flesh and blood. Our brains are controlled by our minds. What controls your mind, Christ or mediciation?

Rom 8:6-7
The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;
(NIV)

~Lorelei

 

[Thankful]

I guess Paul did not WANT To learn, he just wanted to complain, judge and condemn. If only Paul could have seen the Paxil commercial that tells us that anxiety is a disorder, not a choice! Poor niave Paul.

The Bible was written by men who were inspired of the Holy Spirit. These men tell us that emotions are choices and that those who are filled with the Holy Spirit and walk in that same Spirit will experience joy, love, peace etc

.

I am confused by these statements.

Are you saying that a person who suffers from anxiety or depression has a choice?

Are you saying that anxiety or depression are emotions that one experiences?

Why would one choose to be "mentally ill", "to suffer anxiety", or "depression"?

Does someone choose to have cancer, heart disease, diabetes?

If this is what you are saying, on what do you base these comments?

 

[Charles Meadows]

Lorelei,

"In fact, do not offer me any explanations at all, just share with me Scripture that proves that depression is a clinical disease."

The burden is on you to prove otherwise. The problem is not that Paul didn't recognize mental illness - rather the problem is that too many "Christians" think that owning a bible and being able to regurgitate and misapply a verse here and there makes them experts in everything. In this case a preacher or doctor who has such a warped "understanding" of things can do a great deal of damage.

The bible doesn't speak about antidepressants because they were not invented yet. The bible also does not speak about appendectomy either - would you advocate annointing with oil and prayer as treatment for appendicitis as opposed to the evil unscriptural surgery. I hope not.

The bible was not intended to be a textbook of medicine - if you try to make it such your putting words in God's mouth.

 

[ShagNappy]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
In fact, do not offer me any explanations at all, just share with me Scripture that proves that depression is a clinical disease.

After you do the same for the flu, cancer, enlarged prostates, yeast infections, pnuemonia, ingrown toenails. If you cannot provide scriptural proof an ailments exists, I must demand you never seek medical help for it or else you are turning your back to God.

Originally posted by Lorelei:
[QB] Man decided only about 50 years ago that emotions were illnesses rather than choices. This helps man excuse his behavior instead of holding him accountable for it. That is NOT Scritpural. QB]

Actually, they have proven, late last year actually, seratonin disorders are caused by mutant genes. A physical defect, not a "mental" illness. But I guess you know more than these researches right?

Your entire post is a perfect example of the ignorance that does nothing but make Christians look like uneducated, gulliable yahoo's.

 

[LadyEagle]

Man decided only about 50 years ago that emotions were illnesses rather than choices. This helps man excuse his behavior instead of holding him accountable for it. That is NOT Scritpural.

Lack of understanding of physical illness and medicine without the benefit of technology developed in the last 50 years drove people to burn some people at the stake, too.

Not mentioned in the Bible:

A ninth-century author described a dreaded outbreak: "A great plague of swollen blisters consumed the people by a loathsome rot so that their limbs were loosened and fell off before death." The disease, "St. Anthony's Fire," was caused by the ingestion of toxic amounts of Claviceps purpurea, a fungus that infests rye flour. Common symptoms of this mold poisoning were gangrene and burning pain in the extremities. It also could cause convulsions, hallucinations, psychosis and death.

Named for St. Anthony, the patron saint of those infected with the disease, "St. Anthony's Fire" was sometimes linked with epidemics of "dancing mania" which occurred between the thirteenth and sixteenth centuries, and may explain the psychosis and convulsions attributed to the women accused of witchcraft in the Salem trials of 1692.

Mold poisoning was only identified as the cause of "St. Anthony's Fire" in the seventeenth century. The fungus thrived in the cold, damp growing conditions that were then prevalent in France and Germany. Outbreaks occurred during the Middle Ages as entire populations consumed bread made from contaminated rye.

Source

So, did these people infected by the fungus have a choice to hallucinate or be psychotic?


Another not mentioned in the Bible:

Tourette Syndrome is a neurological disorder that manifests itself in the form of body and/or facial tics, and sometimes verbal tics, in the thousands of children and young adults who live with this disorder. This neurological disorder is hereditary.

Throughout history this disorder of the neurological system has been misunderstood. In the past many Tourette Syndrome sufferers, particularly those with severe tics, were often thought possessed. They were often isolated from the public, and many underwent extreme and harsh treatment (burned at the stake, flogging, lobotomies, etc. ) by the public, authorities and/or medical community. Many people with Tourette's were often committed to insane asylums.

source

Does the person with Tourette syndrome have a "choice?"

Your entire post is a perfect example of the ignorance that does nothing but make Christians look like uneducated, gulliable yahoo's.

Or worse.

 

[Daniel David]

Chuckles, what you fail to realize is that Paul in Phil. 4 (which you refuse to grasp), and a whole multitude of other texts command our minds to be focused on Christ. As Lorelei has explained, joy is the opposite of depression. You liberals make it seem like God is bound to the medical diagnosis of quacks, errrrrgggggg, physchologists on meth, who deal in the realm of theory, not fact.

***edited to snip personal attack***

Note that all he could do was whine about my age. Snicker snicker.

Moderator note: Personal attacks will not be tolerated on this thread! We behave ourselves as brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus!! Understood??

[ May 10, 2004, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
If I wanted to be clueless on a biblical issue, then I would consult Terry.

Don't worry my young little man, **edited to snip slang remark**, but you will grow up some day. Maybe you will learn something along the way, **edited to remove negative remark

Moderator

Blackbird

[ May 10, 2004, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

 

[Calvin12]

Matthew 5:4
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted

Romans 12:15
Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn

Anybody have any experience with helping the depressed with anything other than pills? Prayer? Mourning with those who mourn? Comforting them? Giving them scripture?