questioning eternal security

[DaveXR650]

Eternal security is true for those that continue to believe in Christ Jesus but if one that believes chooses to latter reject that faith then they are not saved are they. Those that hold to OSAS would say that no matter what the person would be saved.

But that may not be a possibility. That's what I keep trying to say. I think the reformed explanation of how this works, called the perseverance of the saints, which is slightly different than OSAS is a better explanation. However; being a Baptist, I see how OSAS could be true. And yes, those that hold to OSAS could become complacent or even presumptuous regarding how they live, but they don't always do that.

If the possibility of a believer rejecting Christ did not exist then why the warning passages?

I thought I explained that. It may not make sense for a OSAS person but it makes perfect sense for someone who believes that a saint must indeed persevere, even though doctrinally you know that they indeed will persevere. If you don't think it makes sense then just assume you can lose your salvation. Just be aware that you may have a hard time dealing with other passages that suggest this is not possible.

To think that it is impossible for a true believer to fall away can lead to a false sense of security. Thus the warning passages value.

It could but in all fairness, OSAS believers don't mean that nothing can happen to a person who falls into sin. Sickness, loss, even premature death are often mentioned as well as loss of rewards and the prospect of facing Christ someday as disapproved or rejected for service. There again, if you don't care about that then you probably weren't saved to begin with. If you were then the warnings are still powerful.

 

[kyredneck]

I personally cannot not believe in eternal security.

I'm at a loss to understand this ambiguous statement. Do you or do you not hold to 'eternal security'? (it matters not a whit to me whether you do or not, just seeking clarity)

 

[Silverhair]

But that may not be a possibility. That's what I keep trying to say. I think the reformed explanation of how this works, called the perseverance of the saints, which is slightly different than OSAS is a better explanation. However; being a Baptist, I see how OSAS could be true. And yes, those that hold to OSAS could become complacent or even presumptuous regarding how they live, but they don't always do that.

But that is the point that seems to be the stumbling block for those that hold to the calvinist and or the OSAS view. Whether it is OSAS or the calvinist perseverance view it still comes down to the same thing. Those that believe cannot lose their salvation and thus the question that has not been answered, why the warning passages?

I thought I explained that. It may not make sense for a OSAS person but it makes perfect sense for someone who believes that a saint must indeed persevere, even though doctrinally you know that they indeed will persevere. If you don't think it makes sense then just assume you can lose your salvation. Just be aware that you may have a hard time dealing with other passages that suggest this is not possible.

Yes I understand that both the OSAS and calvinist's due to their doctrinal views think it makes perfect sense. I know that other passages suggest you cannot but that is just a theological view of how those verses are to be understood. Those that continue to believe will have eternal security in Christ and that is the point, those that continue to be in Christ through continued faith.

The calvinist view regarding those that fall away that they never really believed flies in the face of all the warning passages. To me it just seems like the lazy man's way of dealing with the warning passages.

It could but in all fairness, OSAS believers don't mean that nothing can happen to a person who falls into sin. Sickness, loss, even premature death are often mentioned as well as loss of rewards and the prospect of facing Christ someday as disapproved or rejected for service. There again, if you don't care about that then you probably weren't saved to begin with. If you were then the warnings are still powerful.

We are told to " work out your salvation with fear and trembling" for a reason. Those that do not strive to grow in their knowledge of and faith in God can and sometimes do neglect this to the point of apostasy. This can also happen to those that feel that they cannot be lost.

So yes the warning are to be taken seriously.

 

[DaveXR650]

We are told to " work out your salvation with fear and trembling" for a reason. Those that do not strive to grow in their knowledge of and faith in God can and sometimes do neglect this to the point of apostasy. This can also happen to those that feel that they cannot be lost.

So yes the warning are to be taken seriously.

Yeah I don't really get too upset about this issue. Your statement there could be taken almost word for word from some of the Puritan literature. Owen has a book size work on apostacy and the Puritans taught that any sin clung to and persisted in could result in damnation. Whether that means you were never a true believer or whether you lost it really makes no difference. The result is the same and the remedy is the same.