Quotes from Ellen White - You Decide

[Yeshua1]

Christ is God and man, but not to Ellen White.

“There is no one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that He came to this earth and lived as a man among men. The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. The Deity did not sink under the agonizing torture of Calvary, yet it is nonetheless true that ‘God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.'” (Lift Him Up, page 235, paragraph 3.)

If Jesus was/is not the Lord God Almighty, than everyone posting here are still damned!

 

[Yeshua1]

... continued ...

"... The investigative judgment is found in type and in prophecy throughout the whole of scripture [KJB]:

Another brief stop over in Ezra 2, we see an investigative judgment in type:

Ezra 2:61 KJB - And of the children of the priests: the children of Habaiah, the children of Koz, the children of Barzillai; which took a wife of the daughters of Barzillai the Gileadite, and was called after their name:

Ezra 2:62 KJB - These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.

Ezra 2:63 KJB - And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim.

All of those priests coming back from the captivity of Babylon, had to be able to shew themselves by lineage, and had to pass through an investigation, to continue in their role as priests of God. Christians are kings and priests, a royal priesthood, and we have come out of the captivity. This is seen throughout the whole of scripture [KJB]:

The Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation reveal in type and in Prophecy this great end-time Investigative Judgment, and in Exodus 28:15,29,30 KJB we see the breastplate upon the Highpriest, is called “the breastplate of judgment”.

In Genesis 2 & 3, we see Eve being deceived into sin, though Adam was warned, and He having warned her, and Adam following in sin, and then "they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day", and God ['Jesus'] investigates, inquiring and asking questions [Genesis 3:9-19; not that God doesn't know, but it is for the benefit of the angels and Adam/Eve and us], having already warned man of the sentence for sin [Genesis 2:17], and then God carries out sentence, but also gives hope [Genesis 3:15].

In Genesis 4, we see Cain and Abel, which both claimed to worship God, yet one was a son of that wicked one, satan. When Abel was killed by Cain, God came down and asked/inquired/investigated of Cain, before sentence was carried out.

In Genesis 6-9, we see that the world was becoming wicked, and while many claimed to follow God, they were already inter-marrying with the children of Cain. God looks upon the world in investigation, before execution of Judgment by the Flood.

In Genesis 10-11, we see that the people again rebelled, and God came down to see and look and investigate, before the execution of Judgment in the separation of the languages.

In Genesis 17-19, we see that God had delivered the people of Lot and Sodom, and yet Sodom did not truly repent, and went further in rebellion, and God came down to see/investigate/judge before execution of Judgment. ...etc...

In Leviticus 16 & 23, we see that Israel, and all that claimed to follow God, was to enter into the time of the typical Day of Atonement, wherein the Priest bore into the Sanctuary, upon the Breast plate of Judgment the people, represented by the stones. Anyone found not to be in harmony with God, in true repentance, was to be cut off at the end of it.

In 1 Kings 3, we see Solomon [type of Christ] having an investigation between two persons [women] over a dead Child [Christ], and a living Child [Christ] to see who really loved the Child. Solomon investigates in a judgment setting upon His throne, and gives a test, and a sentence testing the loyalty of the True mother [true Church, worshippers] and the corruption of heart of the false mother [false church, worshippers].

In Daniel 7, we see God the Father sitting in judgment, with the books of records being opened, and the angels ministering and searching the records, with Jesus present.

In Zechariah 3, we see an investigative judgment, taking place in the Most Holy Place on the day of atonement, with Joshua the High priest.

In Malachi 3, we see God sitting as a refiner, in judgment over his children.

In the Gospels, Jesus himself came to see/investigate/judge Israel, before the execution of Judgment.

In Matthew 18, we see God taking account of his servants, who had at one point received forgiveness, but later had it revoked.

In Hebrews 9, we see this judgment was to begin with the dead, in the time of judgment.

In 1 Peter 4, we see that God, at the time of Peter, was “ready” to judge, and would begin at the time specified in Daniel and in Leviticus 16 & 23.

In Jude 1:15, we read of Jesus second advent to render and to “execute judgment” that was determined beforehand in the investigation.

In Revelation 11, we see that the very Church, the Temple of God, was to be measured, sometime after the 1,260 years of Daniel.

In Revelation 14, we see the very first Angel's message declare that the time of judgment had begun, and was going forward while the Everlasting Gospel was still being preached.

… and so on.

Notice, that when the Ancient of Days [the person of the Father] sat, multiple thrones were also placed, wherein the angels [which 10,000 etc surrounded Him] also sat, and books were opened. This judgment is for the angels to look into, because they cannot read the human heart as God can, and thus they need to see for themselves that God's judgments were right on who is to be let into a place without sin [Heaven]. The timing of the sequence in Daniel 7 [as shown in context and in chiastic structure, etc] reveals that this phase of judgment takes place after the rise of Rome and its divisions, and before the second advent, and the kingdom come. It is unbreakable in its order. The judgment therein is even taking place while the little horn is still blaspheming on earth, before it is destroyed, before the number of the kingdom of Heaven is made up.

Daniel 7 is in 4 main parts.

Daniel 7:1-14 KJB the vision of Daniel
Daniel 7:15-18 KJB the super summary of the whole vision by Gabriel [even vss 17,18]
Daniel 7:19-22 KJB Daniel asking about it again, and a specific
Daniel 7:23-28 KJB Gabriel, once more going over the whole in more detail

Thus Daniel, Gabriel, Daniel, Gabriel. Each portion intimately tied to the other, so that the timing thereof cannot be broken between each section.

Daniel 7:22 KJB - Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Until [refers to the previous time portion in earlier verse, the leading up to 1844, thus the 1,260 years, 538-1798]

Ancient of Days did sit [refers to 1844 until the close of probation]

judgment was given to the saints of the most High [refers to 1,000 years, see Rev 20:4, "given unto", see also Paul, know ye not that the saints will judge angels [fallen], the world [lost].]

and the time came [end of the 1,000 years, see Rev. 20, Isaiah 24, etc] that the saints posesses the kingdom [being New Heaven and New Earth]

Ezekiel 1-9, shows the same, wherein a investigative judgment goes forward, and then execution of that judgment takes place after, beginning with the elders of the temple/sanctuary on down to the least. ..."​

The Investigative Judgement heresy propagated by Ellen White falls under "damnable heresy"

 

[BobRyan]

You ended with this

Christ called the woman with a bleeding disorder "A daughter of Abraham".

Job 25:6
how much less man, who is a maggot, and the son of man, who is a worm!”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Job 35:8
Your wickedness concerns a man like yourself, and your righteousness a son of man.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Psalm 8:4
what is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him?


The Hebrew word adam can mean “human being”, and not necessarily a male human being. For instance, in the Hebrew of Genesis 5:2, humankind—both men and women—are referred to as “adam” by God. In Genesis 1:27 it says that “God created humankind (ha'adam) in his own image, in the image of ...

Gen 5
2 Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them Man when they were created.

KJV
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.


"Son of man" is the translation of one Hebrew and one Aramaic phrase used in the Hebrew Bible. In Hebrew, the term is ben-adam, while in Aramaic its equivalent bar-adam is used. In post-biblical literature, the similar terms bar-anosh and bar-nasha also appear. The Hebrew expression "son of man"

Thus the Hebrew language itself points to humans as "son of man" and the term man as "Adam".

Nope, I'm not a son of Adam.

You have free will to choose to accept or ignore whatever you wish

 

[Yeshua1]

Thus the Hebrew language itself points to humans as "son of man" and the term man as "Adam".



You have free will to choose to accept or ignore whatever you wish

A "free will" now enslaved to the sin nature and the flesh!

 

[JonShaff]

Thus the Hebrew language itself points to humans as "son of man" and the term man as "Adam".



You have free will to choose to accept or ignore whatever you wish

Are you a son of adam?

 

[One Baptism]

The Investigative Judgement heresy propagated by Ellen White falls under "damnable heresy"

Why is the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment "heresy" in your view? Can you provide to me 3 [if you have more, we can look at the weaker reaons later, I am simply looking for the best reasons to be put forth] of the top concise points that would classify such as "heresy" from the Bible [KJB]?

Brother Bob, and myself have routinely and systematically provided a plethora of texts from Genesis to Revelation that teaches such. What would make you think that such a teaching is not present in those texts and passages, and/or what top 3 concise points would seem to indicate a contrary teaching? Please be brief, and we can then study further into those reasons first and foremost.

If you are serious, then let us study closely, prayerfully, with all humility. If you are simply going to proclaim the ideology as "heresy" without evidence, what am I and brother Bob, and others supposed to do, when all of the texts that have been cited already on it, are still before us all?

It is not enough to simply throw out a word, like "heresy", claim 'right-ness', without substantiating evidences, proofs and valid reasons from scripture [KJB]. This is scriptural [KJB].

Brother Bob and myself, have attempted to put forth the best evidences from scripture for the doctrine, being the foundation of all matters of faith and practice.

 

[One Baptism]

Are you a son of adam?

Yes, in two ways. I am a blood and flesh descendant of Adam the first, as is all of man-kind, including the man Christ Jesus, and I am a spiritual son of Adam the second [Jesus Christ], adopted into the new man.

 

[Yeshua1]

Why is the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment "heresy" in your view? Can you provide to me 3 [if you have more, we can look at the weaker reaons later, I am simply looking for the best reasons to be put forth] of the top concise points that would classify such as "heresy" from the Bible [KJB]?

Brother Bob, and myself have routinely and systematically provided a plethora of texts from Genesis to Revelation that teaches such. What would make you think that such a teaching is not present in those texts and passages, and/or what top 3 concise points would seem to indicate a contrary teaching? Please be brief, and we can can then study further into those reasons first and foremost.

If you are serious, then let us study closely, prayerfully, with all humility. If you are simply going to proclaim the ideology as "heresy" without evidence, what am I and brother Bob, and others supposed to do, when all of the texts that have been cited already on it, are still before us all?

It is not enough to simply throw out a word, like "heresy", claim 'right-ness', without substantiating evidences, proofs and valid reasons from scripture [KJB]. This is scriptural [KJB].

Brother Bob and myself, have attempted to put forth the best evidences from scripture for the doctrine, being the foundation of all matters of faith and practice.

Borh of you do indeed quote and list various scriptures, but the truth is that both of you really misunderstand what they actually teach and mean!
And what makes the Judgement from EW so bad is that it denies that we are eternally secured in Christ, denies that we are saved by grace alone faith alone, as one MUST keep the law in regards to the Sabbath/diet, and view the teachings of EW equal to the Bible!

 

[JonShaff]

Yes, in two ways. I am a blood and flesh descendant of Adam the first, as is all of man-kind, including the man Christ Jesus, and I am a spiritual son of Adam the second [Jesus Christ], adopted into the new man.

1 Corinthians 15:45 says Christ is the Last Adam, not the Second Adam. Why are you twisting words? Are you doing this intentionally?

 

[JonShaff]

<---------I'm the son of My Heavenly Father, not the son of adam.

Yes, in two ways. I am a blood and flesh descendant of Adam the first, as is all of man-kind, including the man Christ Jesus, and I am a spiritual son of Adam the second [Jesus Christ], adopted into the new man.

2 Corinthians 5:16-17
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Your statement denies the above Scripture.

 

[One Baptism]

<---------I'm the son of My Heavenly Father, not the son of adam.

2 Corinthians 5:16-17
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Your statement denies the above Scripture.

No brother, I am a child of the Heavenly Father, a child of the Son Christ Jesus [the second Adam] and a child of the Holy Spirit. Do you want scripture for this?

 

[One Baptism]

Borh of you do indeed quote and list various scriptures, but the truth is that both of you really misunderstand what they actually teach and mean!
And what makes the Judgement from EW so bad is that it denies that we are eternally secured in Christ, denies that we are saved by grace alone faith alone, as one MUST keep the law in regards to the Sabbath/diet, and view the teachings of EW equal to the Bible!

Thank you for once again proving my point. It is fruitless to carry this conversation any further with you, until we can get to specifics. As, brother, you do this every time. Thank you for your time.

 

[One Baptism]

Bob,
Excuse my ignorance but I've never studied SDA in detail. Is this SDA doctrine and is it Mrs. White's writings? If so, what is the souse (how did the author arrive at the information)?

Are you asking how sister White came to understand the material as presented in "The Story of Redemption"?

 

[JonC]

Are you asking how sister White came to understand the material as presented in "The Story of Redemption"?

Yes, that was one of my questions. @BobRyan explained that the account was revealed to her in a vision.

 

[One Baptism]

Ellen White:

"The pope has changed the day of rest from the seventh to the first day. He has thought to change the very commandment that was given to cause man to remember his Creator. He has thought to change the greatest commandment in the decalogue and thus make himself equal with God, or even exalt himself above God (Early Writings, p. 65).

Jesus:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments (Mt. 22:36-40).

It seems to be a matter of reading skills, or of reading carefully.

Sister White, spoke of the "greatest commandment in the decalogue" [ie Ten Commandments].

Jesus was speaking about the "greatest commandment in the Law" [ie the whole of the Torah, we know this because it was a "lawyer" who asked the question, and in how Jesus answered in vs 40], which is found in Deuteronomy 6:4,5; which is a summation of the entire Ten Commandments [Deuteronomy 5, rehersing Exodus 20], and see also Leviticus 19:17-18, for the second greatest.

 

[One Baptism]

Yes, that was one of my questions. @BobRyan explained that the account was revealed to her in a vision.

Yes, she received it in vision. However, if I may add, that the entirety of it is actually in scripture [KJB] itself, here and there, Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation, etc. God collated all of these things and presented them to her in a simplified manner, to be easily expressed, as many had not understood these things from the scriptures, because of lack of study, ignorance, prevailing ideologies, etc.

P.s. as a for instance, how did Paul end up knowing much about the Lord Jesus? Through direct vision [he was never physically at the Lord's Supper, etc] and through study of the OT.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, that was one of my questions. @BobRyan explained that the account was revealed to her in a vision.

True - that level of detail could not be valid any other way. The claim she is making is that it was shown to her in vision. Details that God alone would know.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, she received it in vision. However, if I may add, that the entirety of it is actually in scripture [KJB] itself, here and there, Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation, etc. .

I am all for affirming what she wrote - but if you look at that Story of Redemption text - there are minute details there that you do not find any place else.

 

[JonC]

Yes, she received it in vision. However, if I may add, that the entirety of it is actually in scripture [KJB] itself, here and there, Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation, etc. God collated all of these things and presented them to her in a simplified manner, to be easily expressed, as many had not understood these things from the scriptures, because of lack of study, ignorance, prevailing ideologies, etc.

P.s. as a for instance, how did Paul end up knowing much about the Lord Jesus? Through direct vision [he was never physically at the Lord's Supper, etc] and through study of the OT.

There is much more to Mrs. White's vision than is recorded in Scripture, but I do not doubt that Mrs. White had the visions that she claimed to have witnessed. To do so is a fruitless endeavor (I also don't doubt that John Smith had visions of the angel Moroni). We can objectively question the actual experiences of others, but not that they had those experiences (which is subjective).

 

[BobRyan]

<---------I'm the son of My Heavenly Father, not the son of adam.


2 Corinthians 5:16-17
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Your statement denies the above Scripture.

That is about the new birth.

Romans 4 says this about Abraham as our father.

9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.” 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.