One Baptism
Active Member
I believe I have answered this already, with a basic 'Yes', though with clarifying stipulation, some easily, some not so easily [requiring many cross references, comparison, etc].
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Quotes from Ellen White - You Decide
- Thread starter thatbrian
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Thanks for your kind replies. In the future I may look into such things, but even the "orthodox" (mainstream...what I believe) of Satan's fall is not something I'm studying at this time. There's just so little time.
@BobRyan 's quote just caught my eye and my curiosity. We have one small SDA church in my city and I do not know anyone of that faith. While I find the doctrine I've read to be problematic, I do not see such disagreement as a cause to be unkind. Additionally, I am not familiar enough to enter a meaningful discussion of SDA doctrine.
One Baptism
Active Member
Ok, no worries. If you would ever like a private conversation with me, just start one and I would be most glad to spend time with you in what you would like. You may take as long as you would like in such conversation, so long as my time lasts here, and any replies by myself you may make public as you will, and anything you desire to keep just between us, will remain so, until such time as you change your mind. Not attempting in any way to be secretive, just more personal, outside of interrupting [not always bad] posts and thoughts, etc.
Just, some advice, on Seventh-day Adventist churches, not all are equal, there are tares and wheat, goats and sheep, foolish and wise, ignorant and intelligent [wise, KJB], unconverted and converted peoples in all places, until such time of the "whole wheat", rapidly approaching ...
Ok forgive me; i just thought @BobRyan said the opposite.
One Baptism
Active Member
It may not necessarily be 'opposite', just experiential between us.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Certainly there is room for difference of opinion. but as an example - take the post I provide from "Story of Redemption" there are details about discussion being had.. who tried to do what , what the detail arguments were...meetings that were called for etc.
The basic principles of rebellion in heaven and war in heaven and Lucifer falling due to pride etc can be found in the Bible. But all those details cannot and in fact there is no Bible doctrine that says prophets can never be given more information "more details" than is already in print before them -- or else no OT prophet would have been accepted if they did anything other than "paraphrase Moses" -- and Moses could only "Paraphrase Noah"
The basic principles of rebellion in heaven and war in heaven and Lucifer falling due to pride etc can be found in the Bible. But all those details cannot and in fact there is no Bible doctrine that says prophets can never be given more information "more details" than is already in print before them -- or else no OT prophet would have been accepted if they did anything other than "paraphrase Moses" -- and Moses could only "Paraphrase Noah"
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
That is true. What is more the book of Genesis is not an exhaustive account of every word spoken by anyone mentioned in it for the first 3000 years of earth's history.
Adventist doctrine states that Christ is God the Son from all eternity and the creator of all things..
Ellen White also strongly affirms that point.
"But although Christ’s divine glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man. The human did not take the place of the divine, nor the divine of the human. This is the mystery of godliness. The two expressions “human” and “divine” were, in Christ, closely and inseparably one, and yet they had a distinct individuality. Though Christ humbled Himself to become man, the Godhead was still His own. "
Christ was one with the Father -- 2nd person of the Godhead from all eternity --- for all eternity
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My reading skills are fine. "the Lord is one" is not what Jesus said.
Good luck with that.
One Baptism
Active Member
Let me see if I may elaborate a little more here.
Brother bob and I are both Seventh-day Adventists, but that does not make us clones of each others thoughts, but we are bound together in one heart, that is in Christ Jesus.
Such points as the one currently being asked about, we may truly have a difference of belief [an opposing view], not that we necessarily do, but it may appear so, but even if we truly do, I am right and brother Bob is wrong.
Hahahaa [just poking brother Bob ...] ... Of course, how could it be any other way? I could only speak to my conscience and he to his, according to the light and experiences we have received.Now, if in truth, we do actually disagree on this particular point, he may say he is right and I am wrong, and really, we would then have to come together in a more private setting, and see if we cannot come to a more unified [through scripture of course] position, as such as is possible. We are warned in scripture about causing unnecessary division, and there is a warning to those who deliberately attempt to cause undue division between brethren.
Both brother Bob, and he is truly a brother to me [we have spent quite some time in multiple forums battling for the faith once delivered to the saints], and I, have different experiences in life, different places, peoples, studies, and so on.
My experience, tells my conscience to answer as I have.
Brother Bob's conscience may [I assume, but do not presume] tell him to answer as his experience gave to him.
My experience in this particular point, has demonstrated to me [if to no one else], that anything in the vision [Story of Redemption] can indeed be shown from scripture [KJB] with some pious, intelligent and studious work.
If brother Bob does indeed disagree [and I do not say he actually does, but even if he does], I do not call him impious, unintelligent, and/or lazy. He is my brother through and through. From my perspective, it would simply mean to me [presently] we [together] need to look at it, and see if we cannot more harmonize. I am not infallible, and if I am shown a more excellent way, I take that route.
In a quartet, or duet, etc, the voices, may not always hit the same exact pitch, but the heart is union, and next time, through more brotherly work, the pitches come more closely together.
If in final analysis, there is a true disagreement, and it cannot be immediately reconciled here, it will be reconciled above, there and then. And I [and I am sure he as my brother] can wait for that day, which is soon anyway.
I do not put words into brother Bob's mouth here, just giving my perspective of it.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I keep saying no...
No Bible text claims to be an exhaustive account of every meeting ever held or every word ever spoken.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
There is a difference between saying that every doctrinal point that Ellen White addresses as being shown to her in a vision - is also a Bible doctrine to be found in the Bible ----
vs claiming every event, every meeting Ellen White was ever shown --- is also to be found in the Bible.
Not only was Ellen White shown discussions and meetings that happened before Adam and Eve were created - she was also shown meetings that were held during her life time where she was not physically present at the meeting. Meetings and events - not "also in the Bible".
No Bible text claims to be an exhaustive account of every meeting ever held or every word ever spoken.
And Ellen White never claimed to have witnessed or recorded every meeting ever held or every word ever spoken
vs claiming every event, every meeting Ellen White was ever shown --- is also to be found in the Bible.
Not only was Ellen White shown discussions and meetings that happened before Adam and Eve were created - she was also shown meetings that were held during her life time where she was not physically present at the meeting. Meetings and events - not "also in the Bible".
No Bible text claims to be an exhaustive account of every meeting ever held or every word ever spoken.
And Ellen White never claimed to have witnessed or recorded every meeting ever held or every word ever spoken
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Good thing you have Ellen White to fill in the details for you.
Do you believe that God speaks to you today through modern-day prophets, Bob?
You are playing for the other team, my friend.
One Baptism
Active Member
For all involved here, brother Bob and I basically agree here. I, personally, was only referencing the 'vision' of the Story of Redemption, and the events therein can be found in scripture [KJB].
He may still disagree with me here, but again, I ask for consideration of our differing experiences.
As for personal matters of various meetings, persons, etc, shown to sister White, I would basically agree with brother Bob, though as an addition to the thought, types of those things are found in scripture [KJB], for instance, Ezekiel being shown what went on in the Temple, Elisha knowing what went on in the opposing Kings chambers, Nathan the prophet knowing what King David did, and so on. And we all know there is nothing new under the sun, and history repeats, even in the lives of those today, from those of the past, hence how could those things be written for our admonition, learning, instruction, reproof, etc.
One Baptism
Active Member
Any more quotes of sister White to look at, before this thread is closed down?
P.S. I loved the idea of this thread, and it was a great assistance I believe to the cause of God.
P.S. I loved the idea of this thread, and it was a great assistance I believe to the cause of God.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
My arguments here are not meant to be the basis for "ok Ellen White was a prophet" -- I am simply going over principles - how prophecy works according to the Bible - giving some examples to explain the point etc.
But the first step would be to evaluate the doctrinal claims that the person says God is endorsing -- because God can never be in error - so that doctrine has to be in harmony with the Bible for them to be a true prophet.
So far we have not gone through all that doctrine on this thread - so at this point the exercise is just to go over the topic of prophecy in general and using quotes from Ellen White (since that is the title for this thread set by someone else - not me).
If Ellen White was proven to be totally false, and you were convinced of it, would you still Be a SDA?
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