Racism and sins of the past

[atpollard]

1. That the people who benefit from affirmative action are semi-literate former crack babies with an untreated reading disorder.

I know that you never let facts get in the way of your “black” narrative, but just for the record, I was describing a white girl I met in North Carolina that tried to earn a living mixing custom blends for e-cigarettes at a local flea market. You thought it sounded like a poor black, I just saw the effects of poverty that show no partiality for race. Newark, NJ or Lexington, NC ... despair looks the same no matter the skin color.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

...They say hindsight is 20/20, but it is not really because living in the present is also to live in a unique narrative.

Yes, hindsight is only for the person, not for another.

The claim, "I would not have done what they did," is a dangerous one indeed. Jesus strongly rebuked some people with that attitude, and then they crucified him.

Those who imagine they would not have owned slaves, or otherwise been involved, yet participate in abortion, or turn a blind eye, are similarly fooling themselves.

 

[Reformed1689]

What would those insensitive views be?
1. That the people who benefit from affirmative action are semi-literate former crack babies with an untreated reading disorder.
2. Or that the only systemic racism in America is blacks being racist against whites.
3. Black voters are stupid.
4. Claims and cries about racism today aren't genuine.

Wow, your ignorance is showing...

 

[robustheologian]

No, but I love the lack of denial in your case, in this case. LOL.

And lying too. It suits you.

 

[robustheologian]

Wow, your ignorance is showing...

And your lack of reading and comprehension is showing.

 

[Reformed1689]

And your lack of reading and comprehension is showing.

The Mueller Report was a sham from the start.

 

[JonC]

Another good point that can be made from this thread is that neither "side" grasps the totality of the issue. Experience is blinding, as is a lack of experience (both lending to subjectivity as one often cannot see the "forest for the trees" and the other can't see any trees at all).

In politics the GOP often looks at the conclusions (not the cause) of issues like poverty. The response when related to race is an irrelevant "there are poor white people". With the DNC it is different. The DNC focuses on one aspect (racism) that cannot fully account for the disparity between races so they create a narrative in order to keep people from examining cultural issues themselves (cultures are not benign).

What has to take place is a wholistic approach to issues, otherwise issues are never actually resolved. But this requires people not only to stop ignoring racial issues within a society but to look within their own culture (to include Black Americans looking into their own culture) and addressing the real issues rather than trying to profit from racial narratives. This will, IMHO, never happen because the underlying issue is pride. Pride is a human trait.

 

[robustheologian]

The Mueller Report was a sham from the start.

Just like the Trump presidency.

 

[Reformed1689]

Just like the Trump presidency.

How do you figure that one....?

 

[George Antonios]

Martin Luther King Jr.’s leadership and contributions were so important to our nation.

Martin Luther King Jr., the Christ-denying false prophet (have you ever read his rejection of Christ's deity and his opinion of the gospels?), simply worked within the parameters of his day. Were he alive today, he would be the leader of the racist Communist BLM movement. MLK sowed the seeds of today's wicked racial hatred, but because he did with great swelling words, most can't see past it.

And I'm a Canaanite Gentile dog, of the rejected seed of Abraham; certainly no WASP, so I got no dog in this fight.

But man, you Christian Americans need to stop sucking the teats of your Media-created gods and read them for what they were, through the lens of the Bible.

 

[JonC]

Martin Luther King Jr., the Christ-denying false prophet (have you ever read his rejection of Christ's deity and his opinion of the gospels?), simply worked within the parameters of his day. Were he alive today, he would be the leader of the racist Communist BLM movement. MLK sowed the seeds of today's sinful racial hatred, but because he did with great swelling words, most can't see past it.

And I'm a Canaanite Gentile dog, of the rejected seed of Abraham; certainly no WASP, so I got no dog in this fight.

But man, you Christian Americans need to stop sucking the teats of your Media-created gods and read them for what they were, through the lens of the Bible.

You are very confused. Martin Luther King Jr. made contributions to our nation. Andrew Jackson (a non-Christian) did as well. You are confusing America with the Church. These are two very different things.

As long as you consider America to be a Theocracy you will never be on God's side of history. His Kingdom is not of this world.

 

[George Antonios]

You are very confused. Martin Luther King Jr. made contributions to our nation. Andrew Jackson did as well. You are confusing America with the Church. These are two very different things.

No, please read again:

MLK sowed the seeds of today's wicked racial hatred

That refers to America. MLK helped set up the ruin of your great country.

 

[George Antonios]

As long as you consider America to be a Theocracy you will never be on God's side of history. His Kingdom is not of this world.

I don't consider it a theocracy. I'm talking about MLK messing up America.

 

[JonC]

No, please read again:

That refers to America. MLK helped set up the ruin of your great country.

I did read it again. You are wrong because the hatred preexisting MLK Jr. And you are wrong to look at America as a Theocracy (that is what you were doing in questioning the faith of its leaders).

 

[JonC]

I don't consider it a theocracy. I'm talking about MLK messing up America.

I see. You deny America was "messed up" before MLK.

That is stupid. Were America not "messed up" MLK would not have been relevant.

 

[atpollard]

In politics the GOP often looks at the conclusions (not the cause) of issues like poverty. The response when related to race is an irrelevant "there are poor white people". With the DNC it is different. The DNC focuses on one aspect (racism) that cannot fully account for the disparity between races so they create a narrative in order to keep people from examining cultural issues themselves (cultures are not benign).

You should watch that second video by Phil Vischer presented upthread and recognize that you are conflating poverty driven despair problems with race. The same forces that cause hopeless urban blacks to join gangs drive hopeless rural whites to militias. As long as you strive to get white people to undo the wrong to poor blacks, and ignore the rest of the poor, you are just feeding the “us vs them” beast. Phil points out that the issue tracks with poverty not with race.

(everyone needs HOPE and OPPORTUNITY)

 

[JonC]

You should watch that second video by Phil Vischer presented upthread and recognize that you are conflating poverty driven despair problems with race. The same forces that cause hopeless urban blacks to join gangs drive hopeless rural whites to militias. As long as you strive to get white people to undo the wrong to poor blacks, and ignore the rest of the poor, you are just feeding the “us vs them” beast. Phil points out that the issue tracks with poverty not with race.

(everyone needs HOPE and OPPORTUNITY)

I am not sure that you have read my posts, but if you believe I have conflated poverty driven problems then you have misunderstood what I have been posting.

The issue is not about poverty or issues caused by poverty. The issue is how do we help people groups who are in poverty. Here we have to understand the diverse issues that serve as a cause of poverty.

If we only look to problems resulting from poverty we never address the causes of that poverty.

There are many reasons and we cannot treat people groups the same. The Black culture (a black culture) has adopted a sense of victimhood and dependency absent most poor white cultures (for example).

If we could remove people from poverty it would accomplish nothing if the issues putting them there still exist.

 

[atpollard]

The issue is not about poverty or issues caused by poverty. The issue is how do we help people groups who are in poverty. Here we have to understand the diverse issues that serve as a cause of poverty.

I do not believe that the causes of poverty are different for a poor Black child, a poor White child or a poor Hispanic child. I agree with Phil that talking about “Black Poverty” as somehow different from “White Poverty” (or Hispanic Poverty) is a media ploy to serve a political agenda.

Try listing the causes of poverty and tell me which ones apply exclusively to black families. It is hubris and part of the “white man’s burden” crap to think that Whites need to fix the lives of Blacks. Frankly, there is almost no metric that you can apply to “black culture” that did not apply to me growing up. I know gangs and drugs and poverty and single parent homes and the worthless public school system and the culture of despair first hand. So I know that the forces that destroy black lives are color blind.

I also know what it takes to climb out of that world ... and the first thing is HOPE (which comes from Jesus) and the second thing is OPPORTUNITY (everyone needs a chance). What does Kamala Harris need to be successful? She was born Black, but she was born wealthy and she went to the right schools and she had the connections and she lived in the right zip codes. It is not a Black problem for her. It is a poverty problem that creates the inequality. Poverty is an equal opportunity crusher of hope.

OJ Simpson beat a murder charge just like a rich white man would.
That is why I accuse you of conflating Race with Poverty.

 

[JonC]

I do not believe that the causes of poverty are different for a poor Black child, a poor White child or a poor Hispanic child. I agree with Phil that talking about “Black Poverty” as somehow different from “White Poverty” (or Hispanic Poverty) is a media ploy to serve a political agenda.

Try listing the causes of poverty and tell me which ones apply exclusively to black families. It is hubris and part of the “white man’s burden” crap to think that Whites need to fix the lives of Blacks. Frankly, there is almost no metric that you can apply to “black culture” that did not apply to me growing up. I know gangs and drugs and poverty and single parent homes and the worthless public school system and the culture of despair first hand. So I know that the forces that destroy black lives are color blind.

I also know what it takes to climb out of that world ... and the first thing is HOPE (which comes from Jesus) and the second thing is OPPORTUNITY (everyone needs a chance). What does Kamala Harris need to be successful? She was born Black, but she was born wealthy and she went to the right schools and she had the connections and she lived in the right zip codes. It is not a Black problem for her. It is a poverty problem that creates the inequality. Poverty is an equal opportunity crusher of hope.

OJ Simpson beat a murder charge just like a rich white man would.
That is why I accuse you of conflating Race with Poverty.

I agree the poverty is poverty, but I disagree every people group is poor for the same reasons or that barriers each group faces are identical.

Your accusations are incorrect. Black men have more opportunities than White men in our society. But they also have different barriers when it comes to moving out of poverty. Their culture is one large issue. Typically poor White and Hispanic groups do not view themselves as victims. So victimhood is another barrier.

None of this is on topic, though. Where you have missed the point is in the effects of racism (one is poverty).

You are confusing race with poverty.

 

[atpollard]

None of this is on topic, though. Where you have missed the point is in the effects of racism (one is poverty).

Ok, then let me get back on topic.

WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS OF RACISM?

Successful black men have their ability questioned because there is no way to differentiate between the “best man for the job” being black and the need to promote to fill a minority quota. So the successful black man looses the benefit of the doubt.

Non Blacks suffer REAL SYSTEMIC RACISM. Asian-Americans with higher entrance scores than either black or white counterparts are routinely denied admission to prominent Universities because of Racial Stereotypes and quotas.

Injustice fuels resentment and anger. Every time affirmative action is PERCEIVED (irrespective of reality) as advancing an individual BECAUSE OF RACE, everyone not of that race feels the sort of personal resentment that fuels exactly the sort of racial hatred that you sought to eliminate. It is RECONSTRUCTION feeding the growth of the KKK all over again.

REALITY CHECK: Typical black family marching and rioting probably has a single mother with a unskilled job raising multiple children from more than one father with a husband/father in prison or out on parole. What “equality” do you propose “whitey” should do that will change the trajectory of those children’s life?