Racism and sins of the past

[JonC]

Ok, then let me get back on topic.

WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS OF RACISM?

Successful black men have their ability questioned because there is no way to differentiate between the “best man for the job” being black and the need to promote to fill a minority quota. So the successful black man looses the benefit of the doubt.

Non Blacks suffer REAL SYSTEMIC RACISM. Asian-Americans with higher entrance scores than either black or white counterparts are routinely denied admission to prominent Universities because of Racial Stereotypes and quotas.

Injustice fuels resentment and anger. Every time affirmative action is PERCEIVED (irrespective of reality) as advancing an individual BECAUSE OF RACE, everyone not of that race feels the sort of personal resentment that fuels exactly the sort of racial hatred that you sought to eliminate. It is RECONSTRUCTION feeding the growth of the KKK all over again.

REALITY CHECK: Typical black family marching and rioting probably has a single mother with a unskilled job raising multiple children from more than one father with a husband/father in prison or out on parole. What “equality” do you propose “whitey” should do that will change the trajectory of those children’s life?

Poverty is one effect of racism.

I also identified the devaluation of minorities as a result of affirmative action. It is often assumed they were given what others earned.

The destruction of the nuclear family is another indirect result of racism (it is the result of the DNC using race as political capital).

 

[atpollard]

The destruction of the nuclear family is another indirect result of racism (it is the result of the DNC using race as political capital).

Phil’s data showed that the destruction of the family tracked with the collapse of the Blue Collar working class. Irrespective of race, the success or failure of families tracks with wealth. He offered some good ideas on why.

Blacks are just over represented in the working class and under represented in the middle and upper class. However, middle class black families look a lot like middle class white families.

 

[atpollard]

Poverty is one effect of racism.

Sort of. Appalachia has always been both poor and white. Prior to 1960, poverty was a RURAL thing (irrespective of Race). It was only with the suburban flee from cities and racism that prevented blacks from following the jobs that poverty became linked to racism. Now with all the suburban blue collar jobs going overseas, poverty has once again become no respecter of race. The abandoned rusty factory in the City looks just like the abandoned rusty factory in the suburbs.

 

[JonC]

Phil’s data showed that the destruction of the family tracked with the collapse of the Blue Collar working class. Irrespective of race, the success or failure of families tracks with wealth. He offered some good ideas on why.

Blacks are just over represented in the working class and under represented in the middle and upper class. However, middle class black families look a lot like middle class white families.

The Ethnographic Exploratory Reasearch Report is an interesting source.

Why would the collapse of the Blue Collar working class impact the Black population greater than the White population (there is a disparity....why have a greater percentage of Black people in the Blue Collar class and a lower percentage in the White Collar working class?

Explaining poverty as a result of the collapse of the Blue Collar working class is to step in midstream.

It seems like you, and others here, are bending over backwards to explain barriers to a community that are not related to past cultural norms. But none of your explanations explain the disparity shown by the data.

 

[JonC]

Sort of. Appalachia has always been both poor and white. Prior to 1960, poverty was a RURAL thing (irrespective of Race). It was only with the suburban flee from cities and racism that prevented blacks from following the jobs that poverty became linked to racism. Now with all the suburban blue collar jobs going overseas, poverty has once again become no respecter of race. The abandoned rusty factory in the City looks just like the abandoned rusty factory in the suburbs.

That is one factor.

I can show you companies today that will not hire minorities (the reason is they believe their elderly customer base will not trust Black men in their homes). Biden made a comment that Obama was not typical of Black men because he was clean and articulate. Individual racism has an effect on racism in a culture.

There is also a reason Blacks were historically underrepresented in White Collar jobs.

I am not saying opportunities are absent, only that there are racial issues. I cannot understand why people are able to see so many issues but remain blind to anything associated with past racial issues.

 

[atpollard]

Explaining poverty as a result of the collapse of the Blue Collar working class is to step in midstream.

It seems like you, and others here, are bending over backwards to explain barriers to a community that are not related to past cultural norms. But none of your explanations explain the disparity shown by the data.

Absent the invention of a time machine, I can do nothing about the slaves brought to America, or the Jim Crow laws or the Redline Housing injustice. However, NONE OF THOSE THINGS STILL EXIST. So starting with present reality seems like the only prudent way to move forward.

I have noted an excess of past injustice in your explanations, but NOTHING in the way of suggestions of anything that can be done to move forward (except that I should feel guilty for the sins of people living in America while my family was dying in the coal mines of Wales).

Beating my breast over National sin will not help the people that need help ... that is the flaw in the Democrat platform of 2020. At least the old Southern Democrats of the Kennedy era wanted to try and fix the problems with real solutions.

 

[atpollard]

I am not saying opportunities are absent, only that there are racial issues. I cannot understand why people are able to see so many issues but remain blind to anything associated with past racial issues.

It is not that I cannot see them. It is that I cannot change the past.

That is doubly true for a past that does not exist any more (like housing restrictions).

 

[JonC]

Absent the invention of a time machine, I can do nothing about the slaves brought to America, or the Jim Crow laws or the Redline Housing injustice. However, NONE OF THOSE THINGS STILL EXIST. So starting with present reality seems like the only prudent way to move forward.

I have noted an excess of past injustice in your explanations, but NOTHING in the way of suggestions of anything that can be done to move forward (except that I should feel guilty for the sins of people living in America while my family was dying in the coal mines of Wales).

Beating my breast over National sin will not help the people that need help ... that is the flaw in the Democrat platform of 2020. At least the old Southern Democrats of the Kennedy era wanted to try and fix the problems with real solutions.

I think you have misunderstood my point.

I am not talking about repenting from past "sins". I am not talking about going back in time to change history. I am not talking about placing blame on any current race for the problems of tge past.

I am talking about being able to recognize and discuss those problems the Kennedy era Democrats saw and examining how their "solutions" advanced rather than solved the problems.

I am not saying they had evil intentions - BUT their choices proved problematic. We can't pretend their solutions (or the solutions that followed) dis not have unintended consequences tgat are felt today.

 

[JonC]

It is not that I cannot see them. It is that I cannot change the past.

That is doubly true for a past that does not exist any more (like housing restrictions).

I agree that we cannot change the past. I agree systemic racism (racism ingrained in the system) no longer exists.

I am glad you are not blind to the effects of racism. But I am not talking about changing the past. I am talking about how we can move from those effects that you and I recoexists.

We cannot end what no longer exists. And using systemic racism to combat past racism has proven problematic. The question is what can we do.

 

[atpollard]

I look for racially agnostic solutions that benefit blacks disproportionately because blacks suffer from those problems disproportionately. Once that reality changes, the solution will still benefit WHOEVER suffers from that problem (of any and every race).

Our Criminalized Drug Possession (as distinct from ‘intent to sell’ drug dealers) is a national disgrace. It is a one way path to a lifetime of ruin that begins with a FELONY conviction that closes doors to employment and a future for boys before they even have a chance to become men.

Step 1: We need to radically reform the war on drugs from a monetary incentive to incarcerate and destroy to a monetary incentive to rehabilitate and employ. Perhaps non-violent drug possession could result in a Three year sentence in a facility that was not a Prison, but was designed as a one year addiction treatment center and a two year vocational training center. A “criminal” enters an ADDICT and leaves an EMPLOYEE. No FELONY conviction to report to future employers, just a chance at a new life.

Step 2: Just as there is talk about creating a path for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS a to become CITIZENS, we need a path for CONVICTED FELONS to become HUMAN BEINGS again. Our laws and society are harsh when it comes to someone that is a FELON and there is a sense in which no FELON can ever really have “SERVED THEIR TIME”. That mistake (perhaps made by a 17 or 18 year old) marks them for the rest of their life with Two Strikes against them. We need a path for FELONS, especially non-violent felons, to expunge their pasts and start over. I would like to see consideration of a blanket amnesty for all non-violent felons (especially drug possession for personal use) as a down payment on righting past wrong caused by racism and social and economic inequality.

 

[JonC]

I look for racially agnostic solutions that benefit blacks disproportionately because blacks suffer from those problems disproportionately. Once that reality changes, the solution will still benefit WHOEVER suffers from that problem (of any and every race).

Our Criminalized Drug Possession (as distinct from ‘intent to sell’ drug dealers) is a national disgrace. It is a one way path to a lifetime of ruin that begins with a FELONY conviction that closes doors to employment and a future for boys before they even have a chance to become men.

Step 1: We need to radically reform the war on drugs from a monetary incentive to incarcerate and destroy to a monetary incentive to rehabilitate and employ. Perhaps non-violent drug possession could result in a Three year sentence in a facility that was not a Prison, but was designed as a one year addiction treatment center and a two year vocational training center. A “criminal” enters an ADDICT and leaves an EMPLOYEE. No FELONY conviction to report to future employers, just a chance at a new life.

Step 2: Just as there is talk about creating a path for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS a to become CITIZENS, we need a path for CONVICTED FELONS to become HUMAN BEINGS again. Our laws and society are harsh when it comes to someone that is a FELON and there is a sense in which no FELON can ever really have “SERVED THEIR TIME”. That mistake (perhaps made by a 17 or 18 year old) marks them for the rest of their life with Two Strikes against them. We need a path for FELONS, especially non-violent felons, to expunge their pasts and start over. I would like to see consideration of a blanket amnesty for all non-violent felons (especially drug possession for personal use) as a down payment on righting past wrong caused by racism and social and economic inequality.

"I look for racially agnostic solutions that benefit blacks disproportionately because blacks suffer from those problems disproportionately. Once that reality changes, the solution will still benefit WHOEVER suffers from that problem (of any and every race)."

I agree.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Here is an excerpt from an article on BLM following the George Floyd riots. It's from a British Baptist's perspective.

Truth matters: we are all God’s children – Galatians 3: 26-29. Some academics advocate ‘black theology’ in churches. The Bible says that all scripture is ‘God breathed’ and has the power to speak and teach all - 2 Timothy 3:16. The idea that a section of His people need separate theology denies this, and reminds me of the dangers of becoming tribal, creating division, and ethnicities rising up against each other – Matthew 24:7. The BLM organisation has already been exposed as an anti-West Marxist movement. However, at the heart of the BLM protests is a damaging egocentrism, that judges all, and condemns some, based on the colour of their skin. There is reluctance to show love, understanding, and to face truth. Man’s necessity for personal responsibility and accountability was made clear by God right at the beginning in Genesis 3 when Adam pointed to Eve for his own disobedience.

The implication that all the problems of black people emanate from white privilege and oppression, absolves responsibility for any lawless action. The true nature of justice must be recognised by those shouting ‘black lives matter’ because the current trajectory is towards irreparable division, not only within Britain, but also within the Church, and that’s why, truth matters. ​

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Black students demand segregated spaces from white students | The College Fix
"Black college students across the country have demanded that they be segregated from white peers, calling for “safe spaces” on campuses meant only for so-called students of color."

Racial segregation at US universities is back, with the advent of black-only dormitories. Martin Luther King would be appalled
The Washington Square News, the undergraduate students’ paper of New York University (NYU), recently reported that the university was willing to “help implement residential communities open solely to ‘Black identifying students with Black Residents Assistants.’” NYU aims to establish such a segregated residential floor by autumn 2021.

Isn't segregation based on racism?

Is racial bias racism?

When is the last time you heard/read a black person thank the white man for leading the fight to set their forefathers free?

 

[Southern Fried Baptist]

I am 49 years old. I was an underground utility worker for 15 years and been a garbage truck driver for the past 17 years. Very 'redneck' industries. Never seen anyone discriminated against for being black or female. But I was fired by a black manager at Waste Management because he did not like us old white guys. He was even put in place because of a "diversity" push by WM. Even the black drivers knew he hated white men and many of them quit WM to move to Republic Services in Indianapolis because of his blatant racism towards white men.

And he was reported to WM multiple times and nothing has been done. Racism is mostly from the black community now and it will continue to get worse.

 

[JonC]

When is the last time you heard/read a black person thank the white man for leading the fight to set their forefathers free?

A Black man should neither thank nor hold accountable a White man for slavery (for holding slaves or for freeing slaves).

Black people alive today in America are not slaves. White people alive today have done nothing to free slaves.

We are not accountable for the actions of other people, paticularly of people long dead.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

A Black man should neither thank nor hold accountable a White man for slavery (for holding slaves or for freeing slaves).

Black people alive today in America are not slaves. White people alive today have done nothing to free slaves.

We are not accountable for the actions of other people, paticularly of people long dead.

Are you for real?

Slavery reparations: How would it work? - CNN
If you feel like you're hearing more about slavery reparations, it's not your imagination.


The widespread protests against police brutality and racial injustice following the death of George Floyd have brought a new urgency to the debate around compensating the descendants of American slaves.

 

[JonC]

Yep. I'm for real. If you feel differently then by all means compensate whom ever you wish. I do not judge how other people spend their money.....but if you are looking for a place to send your cash shoot me a pm .

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Yep. I'm for real. If you feel differently then by all means compensate whom ever you wish. I do not judge how other people spend their money.....but if you are looking for a place to send your cash shoot me a pm .

I am in no way supporting or indorsing reparations, affirmative action or any other program to compensate a race of people who impress me as being lazy, ignorant, unwilling to learn or make any effort to improve their status in life.

I get the impression you might agree; at least with a few of those points. However, those in the liberal political arena have a different view and will soon have the "bully pulpit" and perhaps more seats of control in government.

I support the black students who want segregation. They are welcome to stay on their plantation and I will stay on mine.

 

[JonC]

I am in no way supporting or indorsing reparations, affirmative action or any other program to compensate a race of people who impress me as being lazy, ignorant, unwilling to learn or make any effort to improve their status in life.

I get the impression you might agree; at least with a few of those points. However, those in the liberal political arena have a different view and will soon have the "bully pulpit" and perhaps more seats of control in government.

I support the black students who want segregation. They are welcome to stay on their plantation and I will stay on mine.

Ah....I misunderstood.

Reparations. Affirmative action, and enforceable segregation are all IMHO active racism. So I am against all of the above.

 

[atpollard]

I wonder if the same university that is offering a “black only” dormitory will offer a “white only” dormitory?