Rapture background

[Oseas3]

Michael comes before, comes first, inclusive the resurrection happens when Michael comes - Daniel 12:1-3 and 10-12, combined with Matthew 24:15, and Revelation 12:7-12 and mainly Revelation 11:15-18:

Daniel 12:1-3

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time( Matthew 24:21-25 ): and at that time (the current time) thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the STARS for ever and ever.

Matthew 24:15 combined with 1 Thessalonians 4:16
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand. )

Revelation 12:7-12
7 And there was war in heaven: (WAR IN HEAVEN?Ephesians 1:3-8) Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 11:15-18

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the NATIONS(demonic nations) were (will be) angry, and thy WRATH is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged ( ROMANS 2:5-11 ), and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

GET READY

 

[Oseas3]

Michael comes before JESUS, inclusive the resurrection happens when Michael comes - Daniel 12:1-3 and 10-12, combined with Matthew 24:15, and Revelation 12:7-12 and mainly Revelation 11:15-18:
Daniel 12:1- 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time( Matthew 24:21-25 ): and at that time (the current time) thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Michael has his Sword pointing against all nations of the World, including the carnal and esoteric and kabbalistic and spiritist Israel, something like happened with Balaham (Numbers 22:21-32, take a look ) Michael will DISSOLVE the nations like an implosion and all will destroyed(something like the hit of the twin Towers of the Word Trade Center), yeah, to destroy them as the same manner was the destgruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. This process already started. GET READY

By te way, the election of the next and LAST Pope must happen soon, and also must happen the personal MANIFESTATION of the MAN of sin, the MAN Beast like a lamb (a false lamb, a false Jewish messiah-John 5:43-47), and he speaks as dragon-Revelation 13:11 combined with Revelation12:9.

Get ready

 

[Charlie24]

@Charlie24,
Per 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 the rapture takes place after the resurrection and at Christ's appearing. Also per 1 John 3:2.

That's one theory, there are others. If you take 1 Thes. 4 at what it says, the rapture and the resurrection are the same event. That would mean a second resurrection would take place at the Second Coming.

Both of these being the "first resurrection" John spoke of, and the second resurrection being the resurrection of damned, the Great White Throne of Judgment, shortly after the Second Coming.

 

[Charlie24]

That's one theory, there are others. If you take 1 Thes. 4 at what it says, the rapture and the resurrection are the same event. That would mean a second resurrection would take place at the Second Coming.

Both of these being the "first resurrection" John spoke of, and the second resurrection being the resurrection of damned, the Great White Throne of Judgment, shortly after the Second Coming.

Dispensationalism teaches that there are 2 Churches present in the world today. The true Church in Christ made up of all denominations worldwide, and an apostate Church made up of the same. It teaches the true Church will not enter into the Great Tribulation.

It also teaches there is a resurrection of the just that takes place in phases, called the first resurrection. With the second resurrection being only the unjust which takes place shortly after the Second Coming.

The phases of the first resurrection of the just includes the rapture of the Church both dead and alive that takes place before the GT begins, the rapture of the 144,000 (though not implicitly stated in Scripture), The rapture of the 2 witnesses, and the resurrection of the Tribulation saints at the Second Coming.

 

[Cathode]

Baptism is an exorcism, we come out from under the dominion of Satan that Adam and Eve fell into.
Baptism has always been seen as regeneration all the way to the Early Christians.



Water Baptism is Baptism.

The Faith of the parents stands in for the infant, as children are subject to their parents below the age of reason. There is no set age for the reception of Grace.

It was the Faith of the Roman soldier that healed his child, the Faith of his friends that cured the paralytic and the Faith of Martha that raised Lazarus from the dead.

Confirmation is the mature reception of The Holy Spirit and enlivening of gifts in a powerful way.

Mark 9 “So they brought him. When the spirit saw Jesus, it immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth.

21 Jesus asked the boy’s father, “How long has he been like this?”

“From childhood,” he answered. 22 “It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him. But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.”

23 “‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes.”

24 Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!”

25 When Jesus saw that a crowd was running to the scene, he rebuked the impure spirit. “You deaf and mute spirit,” he said, “I command you, come out of him and never enter him again.”

26 The spirit shrieked, convulsed him violently and came out. The boy looked so much like a corpse that many said, “He’s dead.” 27 But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him to his feet, and he stood up.“

Did Jesus require faith from the demon possessed son. No, he was demon possessed.

It was the Faith of the father that wrought the deliverance.

So too with Infant Baptism, the Faith of another stands in for them.

Infant Baptism was a universal Christian belief and practice, it was universally seen as regenerative and given to infants.
All the of the ancient Churches believed and practiced this from the beginning.

Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic, East, West and in between always hold to infant baptism.

 

[Oseas3]

That's one theory, there are others. If you take 1 Thes. 4 at what it says, the rapture and the resurrection are the same event. That would mean a second resurrection would take place at the Second Coming.

Both of these being the "first resurrection" John spoke of, and the second resurrection being the resurrection of damned, the Great White Throne of Judgment, shortly after the Second Coming.

Hebrews 1:3:
1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days (last 2000 years) spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also GOD made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of the Person of GOD(by the way, EXPRESSED in the BIBLE), and upholding all things by the Word of His power(Matthew 28:18), when JESUS had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Acts 1:9-11
9 And when JESUS had spoken these things, while they beheld, JESUS was taken up; and a CLOUD received Him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as JESUS went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; (Would be Gabriel and Michael? would be?)

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same JESUS, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen JESUS go into heaven. (By the way, the SAME CLOUD will now appear in His coming. Get ready)


Matthew 17:2-9
2 And was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright CLOUD overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the CLOUD, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye Him.

6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save JESUS only.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, JESUS charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel(Michael-Daniel 12:1-3), and with the trump of GOD: and the DEAD in CHRIST shall rise first: -> John 11:23-26.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the CLOUD(the same CLOUD of Acts 1:9 and Matthew 17:5) , to meet the Lord in the air (in the environment of the 3rd heaven-Luke 20:35-36 combined with 2Corinthians 12:2-4): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

John 7:38- He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 8:51- Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

John 11:26 - And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

1Thessalonians 4:17:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the CLOUD ((the same CLOUD of Acts 1:9 and Matthew 17:5) to meet the Lord in the air((in the environment of the 3rd heaven-Luke 20:35-36 combined with 2Corinthians 12:2-4): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.-> in the 3rd heaven -> Philippians 3:20-21, take a look.

 

[Charlie24]

Hebrews 1:3:
1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days (last 2000 years) spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also GOD made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of the Person of GOD(by the way, EXPRESSED in the BIBLE), and upholding all things by the Word of His power(Matthew 28:18), when JESUS had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Acts 1:9-11
9 And when JESUS had spoken these things, while they beheld, JESUS was taken up; and a CLOUD received Him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as JESUS went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; (Would be Gabriel and Michael? would be?)

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same JESUS, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen JESUS go into heaven. (By the way, the SAME CLOUD will now appear in His coming. Get ready)


Matthew 17:2-9
2 And was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright CLOUD overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the CLOUD, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye Him.

6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save JESUS only.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, JESUS charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel(Michael-Daniel 12:1-3), and with the trump of GOD: and the DEAD in CHRIST shall rise first: -> John 11:23-26.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the CLOUD(the same CLOUD of Acts 1:9 and Matthew 17:5) , to meet the Lord in the air (in the environment of the 3rd heaven-Luke 20:35-36 combined with 2Corinthians 12:2-4): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

John 7:38- He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 8:51- Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

John 11:26 - And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

1Thessalonians 4:17:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the CLOUD ((the same CLOUD of Acts 1:9 and Matthew 17:5) to meet the Lord in the air((in the environment of the 3rd heaven-Luke 20:35-36 combined with 2Corinthians 12:2-4): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.-> in the 3rd heaven -> Philippians 3:20-21, take a look.

Usually when a variety of Scripture is posted in this manner there's also attached the commentary of the poster so we can know exactly your points.

I don't like to guess.

 

[Oseas3]

Usually when a variety of Scripture is posted in this manner there's also attached the commentary of the poster so we can know exactly your points.

I don't like to guess.

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?

 

[Charlie24]

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?

No, I don't really understand why you didn't explain your points with all that Scripture.

But I suppose folks do things differently.

 

[Oseas3]

No, I don't really understand why you didn't explain your points with all that Scripture.

But I suppose folks do things differently.

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?

What does the Word of GOD say? Revelation 19:10 ... worship GOD: for the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy.
Romans 8:9 -> if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

 

[Charlie24]

What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?

What does the Word of GOD say? Revelation 19:10 ... worship GOD: for the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy.
Romans 8:9 -> if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

And what is this supposed to mean? Is there some kind of secret communication code taking place that I'm not aware of?

It's ok, you can speak for yourself.

 

[Oseas3]

And what is this supposed to mean? Is there some kind of secret communication code taking place that I'm not aware of?
It's ok, you can speak for yourself.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel(Michael-Daniel 12:1-3), and with the trump of GOD: and the DEAD in CHRIST shall rise first: -> John 11:23-26.

1Thessalonians 4:17:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the CLOUD ((the same CLOUD of Acts 1:9 and Matthew 17:5) to meet the Lord in the air((in the environment of the 3rd heaven-Luke 20:35-36 combined with 2Corinthians 12:2-4): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.-> in the 3rd heaven -> Philippians 3:20-21, take a look.

It's it.

 

[Charlie24]

1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel(Michael-Daniel 12:1-3), and with the trump of GOD: and the DEAD in CHRIST shall rise first: -> John 11:23-26.

1Thessalonians 4:17:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the CLOUD ((the same CLOUD of Acts 1:9 and Matthew 17:5) to meet the Lord in the air((in the environment of the 3rd heaven-Luke 20:35-36 combined with 2Corinthians 12:2-4): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.-> in the 3rd heaven -> Philippians 3:20-21, take a look.

It's it.

If I ever get into some serious trouble and I have to tell one person, it will be you.

I know you're not going to talk about it.

 

[Oseas3]

If I ever get into some serious trouble and I have to tell one person, it will be you.
I know you're not going to talk about it.

I was in another site simultaneously, so ....
(8) Where is the Great Multitude from Rev 7:13,14 | Page 10 | Christian Forums

1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel (Michael-Daniel 12:1-3), and with the trump of GOD: and the DEAD in CHRIST shall rise first: -> John 11:23-26.

Michael comes before JESUS, inclusive the resurrection happens when Michael comes - Daniel 12:1-3 and 10-12, combined with Matthew 24:15, and Revelation 12:7-12 and mainly Revelation 11:15-18:

Daniel 12:1- 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time( Matthew 24:21-25 ): and at that time (the current time) thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Michael has his Sword appointing against all nations of the World, including the carnal and esoteric and kabbalistic and spiritist Israel, something like happened with Balaam (Numbers 22:21-32, take a look ) Michael will DISSOLVE the NATIONS like an implosion and all will destroyed(something like the hit of the twin Towers of the Word Trade Center), yeah, to destroy them as the same manner was the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. This process already started, understand? Are you seeing? GET READY

By te way, the election of the next and LAST Pope MUST happen soon, and also MUST happen the personal MANIFESTATION of the MAN of sin, the MAN Beast like a lamb (a false lamb, a false Jewish messiah-John 5:43-47), and he speaks as dragon-Revelation 13:11 combined with Revelation12:9.

Get ready

 

[Walter]

You Catholics are not baptized into Christs death & resurrection, rather you are exercised from original sin thus cleansed & processed. And that’s a decision of your parents because you don’t have a say in the procedure. At least the Presbyterians ( and other Pedo Reformed types) substitute it by identifying it as a ceremonial circumcision, but don’t call it a baptism cause it’s not.

Nonsense! Presbyterians ABSOLUTELY call it baptism. I have witnessed many Presbyterian infant baptisms.

Westminster Confession of Faith (on infant BAPTISM)

"iv. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ, but also the infants of one, or both, believing parents, are to be baptized.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Nonsense! Presbyterians ABSOLUTELY call it baptism. I have witnessed many Presbyterian infant baptisms.

Westminster Confession of Faith (on infant BAPTISM)

"iv. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ, but also the infants of one, or both, believing parents, are to be baptized.

I don’t care what those people call it… they are as erroneous as the Catholics … just call it what it is, an exorcism.

 

[Oseas3]

Nonsense! Presbyterians ABSOLUTELY call it baptism. I have witnessed many Presbyterian infant baptisms.

Westminster Confession of Faith (on infant BAPTISM)

"iv. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ, but also the infants of one, or both, believing parents, are to be baptized.

1Timothy 4:1-3->1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; ("beautiful" dogmas, but demonic and corrupt stratagems and traps to draw peoples to their satanic Churches and cults full of demonic idolatries)

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, ... --->introducing the demonic celibacy in the Church(but not preventing pedophilias of priests) to defend the satanic patrimony / heritage of the Roman Catholic Church exclusively, promising heaven but dragging and leading the people on the path that leads to the fires of hell..

 

[ChristB4Us]

@ChristB4Us,
Nowhere is there any word of God saying the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 is before the tribulation.

There is tribulation that we are going through in these latter days now as it was for His disciples in regards to false prophets & apostasy.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Then there is great tribulation. The rapture is before the great tribulation for why Jesus warned this church in Revelation 2:18-25 to repent or else be cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation, thus the rapture is before the great tribulation.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Matthew 24:30, . . . they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. . . .

1 John 3:2, Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

In Revelation 20:1-6, that "first resurrection" took place after Jesus touched down on the mount of Olives per Zechariah 14:1-5 to defeat the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem in Revelation 19:11-21. So when Revelation 20:1-6 began with Satan being in the pit for a thousand years, Jesus is already on earth BEFORE that so called "first resurrection" took place of the kings and priests that would reign with Him in that 1000 year reign on earth.

So once again, I point out verse 5 for why the apostle John cited that term first resurrection as meaning that resurrection was to happen first before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the Great White Throne Judgment.

That means those resurrected after the great tribulation ARE NOT MEETING JESUS IN THE AIR when He is on earth for when that resurrection finally happened.

 

[37818]

In Revelation 20:1-6, that "first resurrection" took place after Jesus touched down on the mount of Olives per Zechariah 14:1-5 to defeat the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem in Revelation 19:11-21. So when Revelation 20:1-6 began with Satan being in the pit for a thousand years, Jesus is already on earth BEFORE that so called "first resurrection" took place of the kings and priests that would reign with Him in that 1000 year reign on earth.

So once again, I point out verse 5 for why the apostle John cited that term first resurrection as meaning that resurrection was to happen first before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the Great White Throne Judgment.

That means those resurrected after the great tribulation ARE NOT MEETING JESUS IN THE AIR when He is on earth for when that resurrection finally happened.

Huh? The Biblical "first resurrection" has not happened yet. Revelation 20:6, Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.