Reasons for the 2nd Coming of Christ

[John of Japan]

The numbers of the Hebrew letters in Neron Kesar (in English "Nero Caesar") are:

n = 50
r = 200
w = 6
n = 50
q = 100
s = 60
r = 200

I remember years ago that some versions of this verse in Revelation have a variant of 616 (50 less than the full value). This is because some copyists used a variant spelling of Nero, as opposed to the correct "Neron".

There are many ways to debunk this, but the thread is not about it. Please stick to the OP and don't derail the thread.

But why would this be in Hebrew, not Greek. Well, John's message is primarily to the Jews. It was concerning things soon to come (As we read in the very first verse of Revelation and elsewhere). So he wrote it in a sort of code, a language and numbering that the Romans would not understand. That is why "wisdom" is required to understand who John was writing about.

No, it's not "primarily to the Jews," it's to the 7 churches of Asia. How hard is that to figure out? Just read the Book.

Now come on, get back to the OP.

 

[TCassidy]

The numbers of the Hebrew letters in Neron Kesar (in English "Nero Caesar") are:

n = 50
r = 200
w = 6
n = 50
q = 100
s = 60
r = 200

Who says n = 50 or r = 200?

Kabbalism run amok?

Ooops, sorry John. I just read your plea to get back to the OP.

 

[asterisktom]

Please stick to the OP and don't derail the thread.

OK, fair enough. I won't post any more on this thread.

But a last word of advice. If you don't want your thread "derailed" don't thoughtlessly belittle someone else's position, which is what you did from post one. That just invites someone sending a reality check your way.

 

[John of Japan]

OK, fair enough. I won't post any more on this thread.

But a last word of advice. If you don't want your thread "derailed" don't thoughtlessly belittle someone else's position, which is what you did from post one. That just invites someone sending a reality check your way.

Um, no, post #1 belittled no one. It simply told the truth. So far no preterist, including you, has posted cogently on this thread. The very doctrine of what the 2nd Coming is disproves preterism.

Come on, interact with me. When does a full preterist say Christ gathered His disciples, as per John 14:1-3? That is a wonderful, positive purpose of the 2nd Coming.

 

[John of Japan]

Who says n = 50 or r = 200?

Kabbalism run amok?

Ooops, sorry John. I just read your plea to get back to the OP.

You are forgiven.

 

[John of Japan]

It is not cultic numerology. It is an actual system the Hebrews used. Many commentaries refer to this.

At any rate I pass this on so that true Bereans of God's precious Word can consider this possibility. I am not really trying to convince you, John. I know your mind is already made up on this.

Look who is belittling whom now. I'm not a "true Berean of God's precious Word" since I don't do numerology?

 

[TCassidy]

I'm not a "true Berean of God's precious Word" since I don't do numerology?

I wonder if he is aware the Berean's were unsaved.

 

[asterisktom]

Look who is belittling whom now. I'm not a "true Berean of God's precious Word" since I don't do numerology?

Oh please. Look at your earlier posts.

 

[agedman]

I am desperately trying to figure out how “numerology” would possibly conflict with the second coming.

I can count

1 - first coming
2 - second coming

I don’t do buckles on shoes. They were fashion statements for hippies, colonials, and pirates... not to be confused with tassels.
Tassels were different.

Tassels were authorized by God.

 

[prophecy70]

Part of the ridiculousness of preterism is that they don't understand figurative language.

and then why don't futurists understand the same language in matthew 24?

 

[prophecy70]

Sure. Tertullian, Victorious, Hippolytus, Clement of Alexandria, and Jerome were all wrong and you are right. Uh huh.

Show me where they support it.

"However, when actually examined, we find that in neither case is Domitian actually referenced. In both writers, the passages allegedly supporting a Domitianic date simply speak of the banishment of John under the “tyrant,” or the “King of the Romans."

Chapter 3: Dating the Apocalypse

 

[John of Japan]

and then why don't futurists understand the same language in matthew 24?

I can't speak for other futurists, but I take all figures of speech seriously. In fact, the most authoritative book on figurative language in the Bible is by the Dispensationalist Bullinger.

 

[John of Japan]

Oh please. Look at your earlier posts.

I see. So my presumed belittling excuses yours?

Look, if you are personally offended by any of my posts, simply shoot me a PM and I will gladly apologize. If, however, you are offended about something I say about preterism in general, I take nothing back. My supposed belittling posts have been general. Yours is particular.

 

[Covenanter]

There have been more threads on preterism than ever before on the BB. Unfortunately for full preterists, they won't be able to cogently post on this thread, since they believe the 2nd Coming happened spiritually in AD 70. So to them it's over and done with, nothing left (a very bleak position).

On the other hand, to us premillennialists as well as those with an amil or post mil position, the Coming of Christ is still future, the "future hope" of the church of Jesus Christ.

In a recent Bible study (just for myself originally), I started listing the reasons and blessings of the 2nd coming of Christ. Please contribute. (1) For convenience and agreement we will include both the Rapture and 2nd coming in glory in this study. (2) Please give Scripture for your statement. (3) Please note the limited focus of this thread: reasons and blessings of the 2nd coming, not whether or not it will occur.

Your fundamental problem, John, is that read your own reasoning into the postings of others.

Why ever should a belief that Jesus came in AD 70 for the purpose declared in his Olivet prophecy be a reason for sadly reflecting - "it's over and done with, nothing left (a very bleak position)."

We rejoice in that coming because -
Jesus kept his word then, despite the scoffers, so we can trust him for his many promises relating to his presence with us throughout this Gospel age. Hallelujah, Immanuel!

Jesus shouted FINISHED with his dying breath, & rent the temple veil from top to bottom. The Old Covenant, relying on "IF" obedience (Exodus 19) was perfectly fulfilled in & by the Lord Jesus Christ, & a glorious New & Eternal Covenant in his blood was established, BUT the Jews repaired the veil & the old corrupt administration continued. Was Jesus mistaken?

Peter preached in power at Pentecost & in the years following, but despite many thousands believing in Jesus, the result was vicious persecution. The old system maintained its power & continued to dominate.

The glorious Messianic Gospel promises to Israel by the Old Covenant prophets were being rejected by Israel as a nation & by many Jews wherever the Gospel was preached. The Old Covenant continued, with a vengeance.

So it seemed to first century Christian Jews & Gentile converts that the glorious new Messianic age promised was not happening properly. Even 30 years after Calvary Peter wrote:

3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, ‘Where is this “coming” he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.’​

While Jerusalem & the temple remained, the scoffers were vindicated.

Of course we rejoice in that first century coming, for Jesus & the Apostles & all believers were vindicated. Jesus reigns without a rival, King of kings & Lord of lords.

That, as you are quick to assure us, did not end the matter. Christians live as foreigners in a corrupt world, surrounded by unbelievers. We have a Gospel for them, so that enemies become our brothers & sisters in Christ, & we hold out the glorious future hope, & warning, of his final coming at the end of time for resurrection, judgment, & the perfect righteousness of a New Heaven & New Earth.

I'll give Peter the last word:

11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.​

 

[John of Japan]

Your fundamental problem, John, is that read your own reasoning into the postings of others.

Your problem, Covenanter, is that you have missed the entire point of the thread, which is to show that there are are huge number of blessings connected with he 2nd Coming of Christ that are yet future.

And in regards to full preterism, there is far more to the 2nd Coming of Christ than any preterist can cogently discuss. (If you are not a full preterist, why object to my post?)

Why ever should a belief that Jesus came in AD 70 for the purpose declared in his Olivet prophecy be a reason for sadly reflecting - "it's over and done with, nothing left (a very bleak position)."

The position of the full preterist is indeed a very bleak position. I can't imagine ignoring all of the passages about the 2nd Coming except the Olivet Discourse, and remaining joyful at the 2nd Coming of Christ.

I see the future, physical 2nd Coming of Christ as a wonderful, complicated event full of blessings for the modern Christian. Full preterists do not agree, though a partial preteist might. I haven't yet figured out which you are, since you always post on the side of the preterists, and not on the side of the long expected blessed 2nd Coming.

 

[John of Japan]

I'll give Peter the last word:

11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.​

I do have to say, though, that this is a blessed reason for the 2nd Coming: a new Heaven and a new Earth, both of which we deeply need due to the effects of sin on the natural world.

But if, as the full preterist says, there is no future coming of Christ, then Peter is wrong.

 

[agedman]

An aspect of the second coming is that of fellowship.

As Paul stated,

“12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.”​

Because, there is a complete revealing, full understanding, and no B.B. striving, there is such fellowship.

What will the contentious discuss when there are no more prophetic statements to discern, eschatology and soteriology disputes, political upheaval, Bible versions, denominational divides, and jokes.

Jokes?

Sure, because how can you trick someone when there is no capacity to trick?

 

[Covenanter]

Your problem, Covenanter, is that you have missed the entire point of the thread, which is to show that there are are huge number of blessings connected with he 2nd Coming of Christ that are yet future.

And in regards to full preterism, there is far more to the 2nd Coming of Christ than any preterist can cogently discuss. (If you are not a full preterist, why object to my post?)

The position of the full preterist is indeed a very bleak position. I can't imagine ignoring all of the passages about the 2nd Coming except the Olivet Discourse, and remaining joyful at the 2nd Coming of Christ.

I see the future, physical 2nd Coming of Christ as a wonderful, complicated event full of blessings for the modern Christian. Full preterists do not agree, though a partial preteist might. I haven't yet figured out which you are, since you always post on the side of the preterists, and not on the side of the long expected blessed 2nd Coming.

I answered your OP - why do you respond with more negativity? How about a proper response?

 

[John of Japan]

I answered your OP - why do you respond with more negativity? How about a proper response?

Yes, I do have great negativity towards full preterism. I do not apologize for that.

But if you will look once again at posts 117 & 118, you will see positive statements. I believe my response was entirely proper. I saw nothing to answer in the rest of your post.

 

[agedman]

The end of Grace.

Considered that for a book title but thought too many would find it in the murder mystery section.

Why would I look forward to the end of Grace?

Why not?

What a great blessing to know Christ’s return as “King of Kings and Lord of Lords” ends the Church age!