Even though Rippon thinks that I am seeing things here, there does seem to be a deliberate choice to try to avoid that wrath of God towards Jesus connection!
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Regarding Romans 3:25 ...
- Thread starter alexander284
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How about just use that ole P word then?
because its a $5.00 word no one knows.
Just shows that we have dumbed down theology wise!
As I have stated many time before, if you would come face-to-faced with the translators of prominent Bible versions that don't use the word propitiation in their versions --- you would humbly back off and realize your foolishness. Try your absurdity on Thomas Schreiner for instance. He's a well-respected New Testament scholar who is a major translator of the CSB --which does not use the 'P word.' See how that occasion goes. And there are other godly, as well as scripturally astute scholars aside from Dr. Schreiner who would enlighten you as to how wrong you have been in your foolishness.
Pretty much.
I think the NIV and others did what they did not in order to water down the word, but make it understandable....I don't agree with their choice....get out a dictionary people....but I don't not assign malicious intent to their actions. They wanted their words to be understood.
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Dr. Schreiner deeply cares about the word of God and would do nothing intentionally that would alter God's word.
I am looking forward to the revisions coming out in the small update to the CSB.
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You again make this either/or, just as in the one and only or only begotten, my point is while other terms can be used, the reasons why P one not being used would be due to a dumbing down of theology, and also trying to avoid implying wrath of God towards Jesus on that Cross!
I just think that it reflects on just how 'dumbed down" many of gotten in their theology, as few really understand that terminology any more!
I am not ascribing to him or any translator"malcious intent" to alter word of God, but do wish that they would choose to keep the traditional p term!
Utter stupidity is above.
"Many of gotten" huh? Your English ability is substandard and yet you speak of "dumbed down" theology. Look in the mirror buddy.
If only a poor definition of propitiation can be found in most dictionaries, what's the point of using the word in the Bible? The same thing applies to the words appeasement and satisfaction.
"The long and short of all this is that there is no perfect solution, and translators will continue to grapple with bridging the gap between the biblical world and our own. The best solution, however, is probably not to use obscure Latin-based terms (like 'propitiation'), which are meaningless to most readers and which, in any case, have no etymological connection to the Greek terms being used (in this case, the hilas-roots)." (How To Choose A Translation For All Its Worth by Gordon Fee and Mark Strauss page 59)
"The long and short of all this is that there is no perfect solution, and translators will continue to grapple with bridging the gap between the biblical world and our own. The best solution, however, is probably not to use obscure Latin-based terms (like 'propitiation'), which are meaningless to most readers and which, in any case, have no etymological connection to the Greek terms being used (in this case, the hilas-roots)." (How To Choose A Translation For All Its Worth by Gordon Fee and Mark Strauss page 59)
the P term is what best describes though what Jesus did while upon that Cross!
Ah, back to the ole showing charity towards the brethren, eh?
Makes perfect sense to me!
I see propitiation has been consigned to the $5.00 dust bin of history. What the word means is "the means of salvation." Those placed in the propitiatory shelter are saved, those not in Christ unsaved, facing God's wrath for their sins. In Romans 3:25 and Hebrews 9:5 we see the noun indicating Christ as the propitiatory shelter providing the means of salvation.
Romans 3:25
whom God displayed publicly as the means of salvation by His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
Hebrews 9:5
and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the means of salvation but of these things we cannot now speak in detail.
In Hebrews 2:17 we see the verb indicating Christ as providing the means of salvation.
Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to provide the means of salvation for the sins of the people.
Romans 3:25
whom God displayed publicly as the means of salvation by His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
Hebrews 9:5
and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the means of salvation but of these things we cannot now speak in detail.
In Hebrews 2:17 we see the verb indicating Christ as providing the means of salvation.
Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to provide the means of salvation for the sins of the people.
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Continuity. This word has been found in English language Bible translations from at least 1568 (Bishop's Bible) to the present (e.g. ESV, 2001; Revised Geneva, 2019). It is a good word that we have used about 450 years. The above options do not solve the "problem" that this is a theology that has to be taught -- that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, and that he satisfied the wrath of God when he died for our sins.
Two more cases where the Greek noun translated as propitiation refers to the means of salvation from the penalty of sin.
1Johnb 2:2
and He Himself is means of salvation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
1John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the means of salvation for our sins.
1Johnb 2:2
and He Himself is means of salvation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
1John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the means of salvation for our sins.