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Think that the Nlt at least were honest enough to admit that they chose not to translate it in that fashion as it makes little sense to modern readers, and I would infer due to them being biblical dumbed sown!Continuity. This word has been found in English language Bible translations from at least 1568 (Bishop's Bible) to the present (e.g. ESV, 2001; Revised Geneva, 2019). It is a good word that we have used about 450 years. The above options do not solve the "problem" that this is a theology that has to be taught -- that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, and that he satisfied the wrath of God when he died for our sins.
Is there bibles published for it, or all digital?
Think that the Nlt at least were honest enough to admit that they chose not to translate it in that fashion as it makes little sense to modern readers, and I would infer due to them being biblical dumbed sown!
That you cannot recognize the obvious meaning of "propitiation" says it all.Is that the Translation according to van edition?
too bad, as that theological word best defines what God did with Jesus upon that Cross!You mean 'biblically dumbed down' my poor English-deprived child. The irony!
When you point your wagging pointer finger at the NIV in this respect, remember that the CSB and about a dozen other worthy translations don't use your sacrosanct word.
I understand the theological definition of the Greek lexicons for it, but not yours!That you cannot recognize the obvious meaning of "propitiation" says it all.
Leads me to wonder why turning aside God's wrath with the propitiatory shelter of Christ is not the means of salvation from God's wrath.I understand the theological definition of the Greek lexicons for it, but not yours!
The prepositional phrase διὰ πίστεως (dia pistew") here modifies the noun ἱλαστήριον (Jilasthrion). As such it forms a complete noun phrase and could be written as “mercy-seat-accessible-through-faith”
No, the word Propitiation doesn't define what transpired on the cross. It needs to be fleshed out by consultation with commentaries and study aids.too bad, as that theological word best defines what God did with Jesus upon that Cross!
Jesus did not turn away wrath of god, he took the full blunt of all of it!Leads me to wonder why turning aside God's wrath with the propitiatory shelter of Christ is not the means of salvation from God's wrath.
Are you the one who denies we are saved by grace through faith, thus faith provides our access to the grace in which we stand. Face it folks, Christ is the means of salvation not only for our sins, but for the sins of the whole world, all of fallen mankind. Only Calvinists would deny this obvious truth.
other terms can be used, but the P term should be the way we would translate it!No, the word Propitiation doesn't define what transpired on the cross. It needs to be fleshed out by consultation with commentaries and study aids.
You said in post #28 that other terms could be used. I had given you loads of examples from various translations that did not use what you consider now to be the only way for that God transaction on the cross. Among those "a sacrifice of reconciliation" and "reconciling sacrifice." The so-called 2nd Wycliffe translation didn't use the word and neither did William Tyndale.
The same point applies to the word 'begotten' --especially as it has been famously used in John 3:16. You are a proponent of it being translated as begotten. To those who differed with you in that thread on 'The only begotten Son' you claimed on Feb. 20th "I never said that was not a viable way to translate it." You need to come to the same realization regarding translational issues regarding the Appeasement.
It's God, not 'god.' It's not 'blunt' --it's brunt.Jesus did not turn away wrath of god, he took the full blunt of all of it!
You are contradicting yourself in the same sentence. And again, drop your exclamation marks. They don't add any weight to your comments and they are tiresome.other terms can be used, but the P term should be the way we would translate it!
how so? stated can use other terms, but that specific term would be the preferred one to be used.You are contradicting yourself in the same sentence. And again, drop your exclamation marks. They don't add any weight to your comments and they are tiresome.
By the way, those well-known words from 2 Corinthians 5:19 are found in many versions that do not use the word propitiation : NIV, CEB, CSB, ISV, NRSV, WEB, NLT, NET, Goodspeed, Norlie, REB, NJB, MLB and even N.T. Wright's The Kingdom New Testament. They all employ the similar phraseology of "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself."this is a theology that has to be taught -- that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, and that he satisfied the wrath of God when he died for our sins.
Obviously you have no idea what the Greek lexicons say the meaning of propitiation is.Jesus did not turn away wrath of god, he took the full blunt of all of it!
God did not intend the Cross to be the atonement for every lost sinner, correct?
I know that it refers to God having His righteous anger and wrath towards sins and sinners appeased by Jesus willing to endure and take upon Himself that wrath!Obviously you have no idea what the Greek lexicons say the meaning of propitiation is.
You copy and pasted that right. You have no idea that under the wings of Christ we are sheltered from the wrath of God, even toward our misses while under His shelter. Christ became our means of salvation from the wrath of God toward our sins, past, present and future. Try taking your Calvinist glasses off and just reading Romans 3:24-25. But the shelter is accessible only through or on the basis of our faith being credited as righteousness by God.I know that it refers to God having His righteous anger and wrath towards sins and sinners appeased by Jesus willing to endure and take upon Himself that wrath!
the basis of our salvation are the will of God and the Cross of Christ, not our will nor our faith!You copy and pasted that right. You have no idea that under the wings of Christ we are sheltered from the wrath of God, even toward our misses while under His shelter. Christ became our means of salvation from the wrath of God toward our sins, past, present and future. Try taking your Calvinist glasses off and just reading Romans 3:24-25. But the shelter is accessible only through or on the basis of our faith being credited as righteousness by God.
So simply a child could understand it.