Regeneration or Conversion?

[KenH]

I said, "By grace through faith is the Biblical expression."

You said, "NO, "For by grace are ye saved through faith" is the biblical equation."

We said the same thing. I think you are trying to be nitpicking, Yelsew.

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by KenH:
I said, "By grace through faith is the Biblical expression."

You said, "NO, "For by grace are ye saved through faith" is the biblical equation."

We said the same thing. I think you are trying to be nitpicking, Yelsew.

I don't think so, you are saying that grace saves, I am saying that faith saves.

 

[KenH]

Yelsew,

I acknowledge that God is 100% responsible for my salvation. Do you do likewise?

 

[Hardsheller]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Brother Dallas,
Our point is why does the Lord knock at the backslidden saints heart's door if he does not have a free will. If He ramrods a repentance and return to fellowship with Him, then He need not 'knock' to ask for re-admission into the life of the negligent saints spiritual experience and a more intimate fellowship with Christ.

Why does a Christian have freedom and liberty and moral ability (or as you put it - a free will)? Because we've been freed in Christ the author of our liberty.

(Gal 5:1 KJV) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by KenH:
Yelsew,

I acknowledge that God is 100% responsible for my salvation. Do you do likewise?

Absolutely, God did all the work, Gave the word that persuades, Provides his Holy Spirit that assures, and leaves the YES or NO up to me. I said and continue to say YES. Therefore, because I believe in His Only Begotten Son, even on his incredible name, I have eternal life in spite of all my failings. AIN'T GOD GOOOOOOOD!

 

[Ray Berrian]

Oh, so you are saying, 'a Christian {has} freedom and liberty and moral ability' to backslide, but the sinner does not have freedom, liberty, moral ability/ free will. You are outright saying that the Christian has a free will, once saved, but the poor, unfortunate, nonelect are given nothing favorable to their lost condition that would enable them to find faith in Jesus.

 

[Yelsew]

Well said Bro. Ray!

 

[Frogman]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Oh, so you are saying, 'a Christian {has} freedom and liberty and moral ability' to backslide, but the sinner does not have freedom, liberty, moral ability/ free will. You are outright saying that the Christian has a free will, once saved, but the poor, unfortunate, nonelect are given nothing favorable to their lost condition that would enable them to find faith in Jesus.

Do you know why this is true? Anyone? Hint: Jesus came to seek and to save that which is ?????

Those in need of salvation are said to be ?????

They who are saved are said to no longer be ?????


Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by Frogman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Oh, so you are saying, 'a Christian {has} freedom and liberty and moral ability' to backslide, but the sinner does not have freedom, liberty, moral ability/ free will. You are outright saying that the Christian has a free will, once saved, but the poor, unfortunate, nonelect are given nothing favorable to their lost condition that would enable them to find faith in Jesus.

Do you know why this is true? Anyone? Hint: Jesus came to seek and to save that which is ?????

Those in need of salvation are said to be ?????

They who are saved are said to no longer be ?????


Bro. Dallas </font>[/QUOTE]Being lost has absolutely nothing to do with your abilities. Being lost is a temporary condition one can seek help for. I know that to be true, I've been lost, asked for directions, followed the directions and found myself in familiar territory, no longer lost!.

 

[Frogman]

That is a good one Yelsew. I truly enjoyed it.

God Bless.
Bro. dallas

 

[Yelsew]

And so it is with being spiritually lost! Seek and ye shall find, Knock, and the door will be opened to you. One need only ask.

 

[Hardsheller]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
Oh, so you are saying, 'a Christian {has} freedom and liberty and moral ability' to backslide, but the sinner does not have freedom, liberty, moral ability/ free will. You are outright saying that the Christian has a free will, once saved, but the poor, unfortunate, nonelect are given nothing favorable to their lost condition that would enable them to find faith in Jesus.

That verse I quoted ended with the phrase "Yoke of Bondage". Who took off that yoke? Jesus did when the sinner was saved. Did the sinner take it off by his own faith or did Jesus take it off by Grace?

I can understand non-Baptists being confused about this, but for Baptists, Salvation is a Grace Based Transaction that is totally of God.

Which comes first? Grace or Faith?

That's easy because God initiates Salvation.

 

[Frogman]

Originally posted by Yelsew:
And so it is with being spiritually lost! Seek and ye shall find, Knock, and the door will be opened to you. One need only ask.

This works when going on vacation, but only in the flesh as you explain it, will not cause the person to 'pass from death unto life'.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by Frogman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Yelsew:
And so it is with being spiritually lost! Seek and ye shall find, Knock, and the door will be opened to you. One need only ask.

This works when going on vacation, but only in the flesh as you explain it, will not cause the person to 'pass from death unto life'.

Bro. Dallas </font>[/QUOTE]As I understand the Scriptures, it is only while "in the flesh" that man can pass from death unto life. The flesh itself cannot pass from death unto life, for it is appointed unto man once to die (the flesh dies) then the Judgment. The spirit is judged. Only those spirits bearing faith in Jesus are sentenced to life eternal. All others are cast into the lake of fire, the second death.

 

[Frogman]

As I understand the Scriptures, it is only while "in the flesh" that man can pass from death unto life.

Elaborate on this, please. The scriptures describe all as being in the flesh, then Jesus says to Nicodemus, 'except a man be born again...' and then he said:

6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

and then Nicodemus said:
9  Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

This last statement is the flesh we are born into trying to understand the Spiritual things our Lord has spoken. Impossible ain't it.

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

[Yelsew]

I am still in the flesh that I was born into, and I have been reborn in the spirit. I have little difficulty understanding the things of God because the Holy Spirit sheds light on them so they are easier to understand.

But, before I was born again, my understanding was somewhat limited. I did understand that for someone to die for me, there was a very special love in that one who did the dying. I did understand that most of my behavior, what I did, was sin. My parents taught me right from wrong as they were supposed to. I fought against them as my nature insisted that I do. But there was a point in my life that I realised that in order to get along I had to change and that is when I asked for help to get me from my lost condition to my found condition.

Was I totally depraved? NO! Thank God!
Was I an unsaved sinner? YES! Forgive me Jesus!
Am I now HOLY? NO! Forgive me Jesus!
Am I Sanctified? YES! Thank you Jesus!
Am I Justified? YES! Thank you Jesus!
Am I saved? Yes! Because I believe in Jesus who saved me!

 

[Frogman]

Was I totally depraved? NO! Thank God!
Was I an unsaved sinner? YES! Forgive me Jesus!
Am I now HOLY? NO! Forgive me Jesus!
Am I Sanctified? YES! Thank you Jesus!
Am I Justified? YES! Thank you Jesus!
Am I saved? Yes! Because I believe in Jesus who saved me!

Couldn't thank Jesus for something you did, could you.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

No reason, because ALL I DID is Believe, which is not a work.

 

[Frogman]

If you DID anything, then it becomes a work.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

Originally posted by Frogman:
If you DID anything, then it becomes a work.

Bro. Dallas

WRONG, Belief requires no work! You believe in a wide variety of things without expending a lick of effort. Belief in Jesus requires no effort. Belief is merely mental and or spiritual acceptance of fact, idea, concept, reality, situation, condition, etc. NO EFFORT is Expended in believing, There is NO END OBJECTIVE or GOAL. It is simply belief in that which your mind and spirit have heard, seen, smelled, tasted, felt, or sensed, and even conceived. To aid in your belief, here is the definition of Believe and Belief:

believe, v., -lieved, -liev·ing.
—v.i.
1. to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so: Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully.
—v.t.
2. to have confidence or faith in the truth of (a positive assertion, story, etc.); give credence to.
3. to have confidence in the assertions of (a person).
4. to have a conviction that (a person or thing) is, has been, or will be engaged in a given action or involved in a given situation: The fugitive is believed to be headed for the Mexican border.
5. to suppose or assume; understand (usually fol. by a noun clause): I believe that he has left town.
6. believe in,
a. to be persuaded of the truth or existence of: to believe in Zoroastrianism; to believe in ghosts.
b. to have faith in the reliability, honesty, benevolence, etc., of: I can help only if you believe in me.
7. make believe. See make (def. 46).

belief, n.
1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.
—Syn. 1. view, tenet, conclusion, persuasion.
2. assurance.
BELIEF, CERTAINTY, CONVICTION refer to acceptance of, or confidence in, an alleged fact or body of facts as true or right without positive knowledge or proof.
BELIEF is such acceptance in general: belief in astrology.
CERTAINTY indicates unquestioning belief and positiveness in one's own mind that something is true: I know this for a certainty.
CONVICTION is settled, profound, or earnest belief that something is right: a conviction that a decision is just.
4. doctrine, dogma.