Regeneration

If I'm the Brandon you're supposedly talking to then you need some help. My questions were "who cares?" and "isn't there a reason they closed down the old c/a debate forum? You answered one of them sorta :laugh:

 

Hello GordonSlocum.

That's impossible. No one can have faith unless he is born again. The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Rom 8:7-8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.

The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Rom 8:7.

...the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace... Rom 8:6.

Regardless of the technicalities it is because of God that I am in Christ. 1 Cor 1:30.

They were the days.

john.

 

Aren't you arminians wasting time asking silly questions? How many souls that Jesus wanted to saved have gone to hell against His will while you've been debating?

 

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

You're wasting time too, JD, the Lord is patiently waiting for you to go out and preach repentance to the elect.

 

I wish I had time, but since I don't have time to look up the verses (like 1 John 5:1, John 3:5, James 1:18) I'll just surrender and admit that when I was the agent of my own birth. Satisfied now?

 

Sorry, JD, I forgot to put a smiley at the end of my last post. You may have misunderstood. I was kidding around with ya.

 

And what part of this passage allows for us to give birth to ourselves through the faith of the natural man?

10 But God has revealed [them] to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them,] because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is [rightly] judged by no one. 16 For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

 

Since all men having the ability to choose who he will serve has worked its way so well into my gospel presentations you may just be right. There are probably a lot of people out there that have been listening to Calvinist declarations that they may have been predestined to have no hope.

 

We do not and cannot choose if and when we are physically born.

Can we choose if and when we are spiritually re-born?


Is this the crux of the whole debate/discussion?

 

No offense taken. In spite of all the rancor I've been involved in on the BB, I've only been truly offended one time, and that was by a fellow calvinist. Don't try to figure out which post it was though, it's not obvious.

I don't count things that people say in anger or out of ignorance as personally offensive. And I hope I get the same couresty. I do get angry sometimes and say harsh things I don't mean. But sometimes I do mean them. Guess you're left with a guessing game as to when I mean it and when I don't. That's what makes it fun for me!

 

Interesting statement of faith on your profile:

 

MB,

I like some of your ideas. Regeneration is saved, for sure.

 

Andy

...

This is true regarding national and religious Israel. It is not applicable to individual salvation -- sotierology. God does not have to force His love and grace upon us for us to turn to Him.

You will find many other examples of this same flawed application by Calvinists, especially in their use of Rom 9-11 which are spoken also of national and religious Israel -- Paul's "kinsmen according to the flesh" (9:3); "they [religious Israel] have a zeal for God but not according to knowledge." (10:2); I say, hath God cast away His people [national Israel]?" (11:1).

skypair

 

BINGO! But Calvinists DON'T believe that. They mostly believe that "regeneration" precedes salvation such that the "elect" are enabled to "hear" "spiritual things" 1Cor 2:14 -- namely the gospel.

skypair

 

Don't answer me that way -- I'm on YOUR side. :laugh: I agree that salvation by faith precedes the "new birth," "new creation," etc.

skypair

 

christianyouth, whatever, johnp,

You (and Calvin) left out a step, christian -- belief. It IS possible for someone to believe and repent and that is what "triggers" God granting faith to the believer.

Gal 3:22 -- "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe."

Rom 3:22 -- "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

You have made one good point though -- "It is logically impossible for someone to generate faith." Calvinists assume 2 things: 1) That faith = belief and 2) that believing and choosing Christ is illogical, beyond the rational capability of any but the elect. This is why so many critics of Calvinism will say that the don't believe in "total depravity" -- they believe in "total inability," a charge frequently acerred by Calvinists themselves.

skypair

 

We're working on the premise of "multiplication," J.D. If we can get you guys to actually offer salvation rather than sanctification to others, then we will multiply the witnesses for Christ!

See, Calvinists say we can't "choose" Christ so it stands to reason that they assume it of those who join with their theology and they are only sanctifying the presumably "elect." :tear:

skypair