Regeneration

I agree with you to a certain extent. I don't have anything that was not given to me by God. The same was true before I was saved. For example - my mouth - God gave me my mouth, but what I did with it was my fault. Everything we have is given to us by God, but what we do with what we were given is not always of God, it is allowed by Him though.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

Multifaceted Gem of Salvation

This response is rather long and goes beyond the regeneration of those who are dead in trespasses and sins to discuss what I call the ‘Multifaceted Gem of Salvation”. My Apologies but I think discussing regeneration alone is not sufficient.

Salvation, the blessing of grace, is that work of the Triune God by which He eternally redeems and reconciles to Himself those chosen in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world [Ephesians 1:4], freeing them from bondage to sin and His holy wrath. That salvation is purchased by the blood of the Incarnate Son [Romans 5: 9; Hebrews 9: 14; 1 Peter 1: 18; 1 John 1: 7; Revelation 1: 5; Revelation 7: 14], the blood of the everlasting covenant [Matthew 26: 28; Hebrews 13: 20], and is made effective in the life of the elect through regeneration by the Holy Spirit and union with Jesus Christ. Salvation from beginning to end is entirely by the Sovereign Grace of the Triune God. During his earthly ministry Jesus Christ expressed this truth by the following simple statements:

John 5:21 KJV
21. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.


Salvation is a once for all time occurrence in the life of the elect. A person is either saved or he is lost, there is no in-between. However, as we see explicitly in Romans 8:28-30, and throughout Scripture, there are a number of events that are associated with salvation. In some of these man takes an active roll but in most of them he is entirely passive. If we consider salvation as a multifaceted gem we may better appreciate both the gift of salvation and the work of God, in particular God the Holy Spirit, in the salvation of those whom God the Father, before the foundation of the world, has chosen in Jesus Christ.

A. The initial event in salvation is regeneration, the theological term synonymous with ‘rebirth’ or ‘being born again’. Regeneration is solely the work of God the Holy Spirit whereby those who are spiritually dead in trespass and sin are made spiritual alive and are brought into union with Jesus Christ. Whereas the unregenerate person has no disposition, interest, or desire for the things of God the regenerate person is a new creation and is now receptive to the ‘effectual call’ of the Holy Spirit.

Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews, came to Jesus Christ by night to question Him.

John 3:3, KJV
3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Various forms of expression are employed in the Scriptures, to denote the change that occurs at the new birth or regeneration:

1.0 It is taking away the heart of stone, and giving a heart of flesh, a new heart.

Ezekiel 36:26, KJV
26. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

2.0 It is putting the law in the heart.

Hebrews 8:10, KJV
10. For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

3.0 It is a resurrection from the spiritual death.

John 5:25, KJV
25. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

4.0 It is quickening or making alive.

John 6:63, KJV
63. It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
John 5:21, KJV
21. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

As noted earlier regeneration is solely the work of God the Holy Spirit. In discussing the work of God the Holy Spirit we look first at the spiritual condition of unregenerate man. The Apostle Paul writes:

1 Corinthians 2:14, KJV
14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

The doctrine that the natural man of himself is unable to affect his standing before God is called ‘total depravity’. This term is frequently misused to indicate the state or level of sin to which man has fallen. However, the doctrine is that man, regardless of his moral condition, is unable through his effort alone to effect any change in his spiritual relationship with God.

We once again turn to Scripture to determine or define the Work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration. Perhaps nowhere is this as clearly expressed as in the following passage from Ephesians.

Ephesians 2:1-10, KJV
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

From this passage we note six significant Biblical truths:

1.0 Unregenerate man, man who is spiritually dead in trespass and sin, is given spiritual life through no merit of his own or through any effort on his part.
2.0 God, in the person of the Holy Spirit, effects this change as an act of His love and mercy toward those He has chosen unto salvation.
3.0 Man, being regenerated, is united with, or enters into a union, with Jesus Christ.
4.0 We are raised from spiritual death and sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. That is we have been delivered .. from the power of darkness, and .. translated .. into the kingdom of his dear Son, Jesus Christ [Colossians 1:13, KJV].
5.0 The regenerate man receives the gift of faith by which the ‘gospel call’ becomes effective.
6.0 Having been given the gift of salvation we become His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works.

Although Regeneration is the initial event in Salvation there are many facets in the Gem of Salvation as indicated below [not necessarily presented in chronological order].

B. Union with Jesus Christ


C. Effectual Calling


D. Conversion


D1. Saving Faith


D2. Repentance


E. Pardon


F. Justification


G. Adoption


H. Sanctification


I. Perseverance or Security of the True Believer


J. Assurance of Salvation


K. Glorification

 

That sounds good but there are no physical manifestations of the indwelling Spirit like there are of the filling of the Spirit. A "leap in the belly" is more like Pentecost where men appeared to be drunk with joy, my friend.

Plus, "filling" is not a permanent thing as "indwelling" is. Did John "leap" until the day he was born? No, it was just that one incidence of it.

And we know that OT saints could be "filled" with the Spirit. Filling is NOT regeneration.

skypair

 

That's precisely why I also gave Rom 3:22, the parallel. So to answer your question, because it is not confirmed by other passages in the NT.

I can see why -- the Jews believe that when King Messiah comes, it will be Him that is trusting of God. He will then turn around and forgive their sins after He has resurrected them.

skypair

 

That's good! Yeah. And given to whom? Those that believe, right?

skypair

 

That's too easy J.D.

That's an easy one --- the man was asking "what must a man do to do the works of God?" To which Jesus replied, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. "

So for a man to do the "works of God," he must BELIEVE on Jesus! cf. Rom 4:5 -- "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." He believes -- he is justified -- he is given faith -- that faith is counted for righteousness.

skypair

 

Spot on, blammo! Good on ya!

skypair

 

Someone's giving you the runaround, J.D. "Personal faith" as you call it, is BELIEF. Thus, "in order for him to exercise faith, he must have faith" means that in order to exercise belief (repentance), he must have belief.

The "work of God" I explained above, is done my man and is also BELIEVING.

You're right -- faith orginates from God but it is only given AFTER belief.

skypair

 

Faith IS belief . Nobody believes on their own accord . The Lord gives faith (saving belief ) as well as repentance . From start to finish salvation is of the Lord . The Lord 100% , man 0% .

 

Why do you guys keep saying things like this? Faith and belief are the same thing. The NT has only one word for it: pistis (pisteuo in the verb form). This is a distinction that flows from your necessity to defend a system. It does not flow from Scritpure.

 

Obviously you were "snowed" by this lengthy obfuscation of the truth. :laugh:

[/quote]... Salvation from beginning to end is entirely by the Sovereign Grace of the Triune God. During his earthly ministry Jesus Christ expressed this truth by the following simple statements:[/quote] Calvinists always assing things they don't understand to "the Sovereign Grace of the Triune God" (or words to that effect.)

Amen. But what untruth are you going to hang on this obvious truth -- that's the issue.

Beginning with God "foreknowing" who would believe, old regular. That is where we are in this discussion. Some, knowing that faith is given only by God -- and wanting to prove that God "does it all" -- say that belief = faith. NO. Belief is what man is called upon to do in order to receive faith.

Regeneration/rebirth is AFTER belief. It is God "translating us into the kingdom of His dear Son" once we believe (Col 1:13). We are "born again" into the kingdom like your reference to Jo 3 tell us, right?

And what we would really like to know is when God does this. I see from your list below that even your author does not speculate on that not knowing himself where to place it. So I suggest we place it AFTER we believe and are justified before God.

ABSOLUTELY and VERIFIABLY NOT!

skypair

 

Why anyone that claims to believe the bible would embrace open theism is beyond my understanding.

I guess the thought of an absolutely sovereign God is too frightening for some people.

 

Access is admission in to the Grace in which we stand.

Grace is no secret. Grace is favor.

Yes. We cannot be a child of God before faith because we are children of God by faith.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Before regeneration we are all children of Satan. We are all born is sin there is no difference between any one. The idea that election somehow makes us sheep isn't biblical. It isn't found in scripture. If men were children of God before Salvation then they couldn't have been born in sin.
MB

 

Here's a thorough treatment of the subject:

http://www.dbts.edu/journals/2002/Snoeberger.pdf


I stole it from another forum that's running parallel to this one. Gorden started the same thread over there.

 

Hi JD;

I wouldn't call what I believe moderate Calvinism but truth from scripture. Calvinism insist that regeneration is before faith and scripture clearly disproves this part of Calvinism all together. I find it interesting that no Calvinist has been able to prove this theory of prefaith regeneration from scripture and no one has denied that it isn't in scripture. Do Calvinist admit that prefaith regeneration isn't according to scripture?
MB

 

Not interesting, just a fact. My faith is in HIM, not in Jkdbuck76. If it were up to Jkdbuck76, I'd be dead by now.

I'm trying to understand something about the nature of the debate.
And I have framed it in the following way as a form of a statement:
We do not and cannot choose if and when we are physically born.
Can we choose if and when we are spiritually re-born?

So answer it or don't. Your quoting my statement of faith doesn't answer the question. I want to know what people think. I want to know what you think.

 

Calvinism doesn't insist on this. Most calvinists believe it, but some do not.

I take it you haven't read much on this topic? Read Snoeberger's article listed above. He deals with it pretty extensively. Read Murray. You can see that those who believe in regeneration preceding faith have strong biblical support.

Or if you are not interested, you can just go on saying something that isn't true.

 

Where Adam and Eve totally depraved originally?

 

To quote R.C. Sproul, they were created "able to sin, and able to not sin"; meaning, that they had true libertarian free will, the kind of free will men today impudently assume they themselves have.

When they sinned, their wills becamed corrupted by their spiritually dead natures ("You shall surely die"), and fell into bondage to sin.

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

 

Can I ask a question or two?
1) You shall surely die.....is that spiritual, physical, or does it depend on who I ask?

2) Would they have lived forever in their original bodies had they not taken of the fruit?